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Re: How about Mr. & Mrs. average Joe
Old 08-02-2006, 03:41 PM   #21
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Re: How about Mr. & Mrs. average Joe

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Originally Posted by Shredder
Screwed by NAFTA, health care bills, debt, the "new" economy,* downsizing, their own faulty choices, or whatever, not willing, or able to relocate, and facing a dismal future. I have no answer, I just think it's sad........shredder
I knew people like that in Charleston, SC, and I know people like that in Hawaii. It's a good thing that they hunt & fish and have the handyman skills to maintain their residences... or a place to pitch a tent.

Politics & govt aside, the point is that these people had few skills with little money and got knocked off the perch by the first disturbance to pass by. As Chris Rock has said, "When you're poor there is no second chance."

However during the Depression millions of people managed to figure out how to relocate and find employment. It's not rocket science-- move or die. I suspect that people who stay in one place and dig themselves ever deeper are either not showing the whole story or have more severe problems than a job search.
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Re: How about Mr. & Mrs. average Joe
Old 08-02-2006, 03:49 PM   #22
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Re: How about Mr. & Mrs. average Joe

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However during the Depression millions of people managed to figure out how to relocate and find employment. It's not rocket science-- move or die. I suspect that people who stay in one place and dig themselves ever deeper are either not showing the whole story or have more severe problems than a job search.
Yep, happened to a friend I know. He worked for the police department and they started laying off officers in the midst of a high unemployment environment. Mind you this is in one of the worst cities in the US so no real reason to stay other than family. We've been telling him for years to move and he never did. Finally got the notice a few months ago that he's getting layed off. He applied for another PD out of state and guess what. His pay is higher, better area to work, and a much more family friendly city to live in and watch his kid grow up.
Life throws bolders at everyone. THe ones who survive and prosper are the same ones that get the H*ll out of the way and do something about their situation before the bolder smashes them.
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Re: How about Mr. & Mrs. average Joe
Old 08-02-2006, 05:28 PM   #23
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Re: How about Mr. & Mrs. average Joe

My guess is that everyone could retire early if they LBTM and saved 10% a year from their very first job. That wouldn't be much, but I bet it would do it.

The only thing that might make that hard now is health insurance.

Most people just buy way to much junk.
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Re: How about Mr. & Mrs. average Joe
Old 08-02-2006, 08:00 PM   #24
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Re: How about Mr. & Mrs. average Joe

I managed a small call center application at a utility company. My reps were mostly high school graduates, a few with some college credits. We talked about the company's 401k plan in several of our staff meetings (using the "latte factor" as an example of how a little bit of money invested can add up over time). Most were not interested in participating because they needed every $ of their paycheck. The only two (out of 10) that participated were over 50 (one is 58 and shared how her balance has grown significantly over the years). One of the 20-somethings has a motorcycle, truck, big screen, and lots of other toys, but just can't swing contributing to the 401k. Another 35+ said she can't afford it, but she buys a latte, breakfast and lunch each day. Still another 30+ working mom with a deadbeat husband and two kids can't afford to contribute, but has her daily latte, eats lunch most days and has the NFL package on Direct TV for her husband and his friends. Another 25+ regularly flies to Vegas one weekend a month and spends his other weekends at the casino. He swears he is going to hit the big jackpot and retire young and rich. Ultimately, they don't understand the meaning of "delayed gratification" and LBYM. They come from mixed backgrounds, different areas of the US and abroad. It is a very good 401K managed by T Rowe Price and the company matches up to 6% at 100%. Go figure
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Re: How about Mr. & Mrs. average Joe
Old 08-02-2006, 08:23 PM   #25
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Re: How about Mr. & Mrs. average Joe

my parents would have worked their entire lives regardless of how much money they made. i have no doubt that if mom didn't have alzheimer's now at age 75, she'd still be working. they easily could have retired early. but boy, would that have screwed things up for me.

you thought it was important how you raise your kids. nah, it's how you train your parents.
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Re: How about Mr. & Mrs. average Joe
Old 08-03-2006, 09:15 AM   #26
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Re: How about Mr. & Mrs. average Joe

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Originally Posted by Andy
My guess is that everyone could retire early if they LBTM and saved 10% a year from their very first job.* *That wouldn't be much, but I bet it would do it.*

The only thing that might make that hard now is health insurance.*

Most people just buy way to much junk.* *
I agree that there are plenty of people who should save more. And there are lots of people who have made bad choices. But there are lots of people and family's making and living on $7-8 a hour. Pretty tough to save 10% of that. And most of these low paying jobs that don't have health insurance, and now with the new bankruptcy laws if they get sick they're screwed for life.
I know one person who works on a golf course 5-6 months a year, and odd jobs when he can. He has managed to accumulate 30 acres of land, a good used truck, a used motorcycle, and a house he built himself. He lived in a basement house for about 7-8 years till he had enough to built the upstairs. He raises chickens and sells eggs, grows his own veggies, hunts his own protein. He is happy and works hard to survive. He does not live with his elderly mom but does take care of her. His sister can't be found till holidays. I'm sure she will show up when mom dies though. One illness though could destroy everything he has worked for. It's hard for me to see the bright side of that, or fault him if he got sick for not getting a better job or moving..........shredder
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Re: How about Mr. & Mrs. average Joe
Old 08-03-2006, 09:52 AM   #27
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Re: How about Mr. & Mrs. average Joe

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Originally Posted by Shredder
I agree that there are plenty of people who should save more. And there are lots of people who have made bad choices. But there are lots of people and family's making and living on $7-8 a hour. Pretty tough to save 10% of that. And most of these low paying jobs that don't have health insurance, and now with the new bankruptcy laws if they get sick they're screwed for life.
I think we can safety eliminate the idea of saving at $7-8 an hour. In order to save anything in this country, I think you need to make at least $10/hr, and that's assuming that both husband and wife work.
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Re: How about Mr. & Mrs. average Joe
Old 08-03-2006, 10:54 AM   #28
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Re: How about Mr. & Mrs. average Joe

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Originally Posted by Arif

Life throws bolders at everyone. THe ones who survive and prosper are the same ones that get the H*ll out of the way and do something about their situation before the bolder smashes them.
Good story. That's always been my motto. People always ask, "What about friends and family?" Trust me. If these friends are real enough friends, you'll stay in touch with them, and when the situation presents itself, you'll hang out again. However, if these friends are just your run-of-the-mill drinking buddies, then you'll get new drinking buddies. Besides, when the boulders that hit your workplace or industry are big enough, eventually, everbody you know will move on to something else. It's not wise to stay if the career or job is not working out.

By the way, some managers don't like it when you can see the light even with the wool they're trying to pull over your eyes. Their preferred method of layoff management is to make you believe that you have a career with the company and then when they have extracted everything out of you, send you on your way. They also hate that you take classes and try to better yourself because it presents a threat to their power structure and gives you more options to move on to something else.

This kind of attitude is self defeating because what happens is that you're left with a bunch people who are either too lazy to move or too tied down with obligations to do explore something else. I'd rather work with a bunch fo motivated and ambitious people. Yes, they'll want more money and bigger jobs, but I'd rather have that kind of network be they at the same company or not than to be surrounded by a bunch of sheeps.

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Re: How about Mr. & Mrs. average Joe
Old 08-03-2006, 12:36 PM   #29
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Re: How about Mr. & Mrs. average Joe

I guess it depends on your definition of "average". I would say the "average" person could make it by saving 10%.

Obviously there are lots of people out there who don't make that. I do have a friend who has always made low wages. She owns an adequate mobile home on a paid for lot. She has done a lot to make it a nice cozy home. She has always lived below her means. She is now in her mid 50's. Semi retired(she cleans two small businesses a week for play money). She raised two boys alone. She has done some traveling-Europe, low budget. etc. So, it can be done.

i also think a lot of people even in low wage jobs waste a lot of money on things they really can't afford. They could at least have some sort of emergency fund, so that every car repair etc wasn't a crisis.

I also have a family member who just lost her husband and the house will probably go to forclosure soon. They made a lot of money, but have no savings, no emergency fund and a houseful of useless junk they had to have. (Along with the coffees etc. ) I think the latte factor is more and more important the lower you go in wages. just my 2 cents.
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Re: How about Mr. & Mrs. average Joe
Old 08-03-2006, 12:58 PM   #30
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Re: How about Mr. & Mrs. average Joe

My parents fall into the “average Joe” category when it comes to savings and retirement.* I’m scared and worried about them and offer as much info/advice as I can but I can’t make them read books and get more information, or force them to stop buying and save more.

I think a lot of it also depends on your personality.* From an early age, I’ve always been interested in reading books, getting an education, and gaining knowledge so I can get out of the rat race, but my parents are not really interested in those things.*

I think another thing is that the “average Joe” has a hard time admitting they have no idea about investing, saving, etc. and feel too embarrassed to ask for help.* If the average Joe 50 year old only has $20K in a 401K, but overhears a younger co-worker talking about his $600K, then that just makes it more embarrassing and unfortunately, probably too late to really do much about it.*
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