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Re: Affluenza & ER resentment
Old 07-19-2004, 01:49 PM   #61
 
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Re: Affluenza & ER resentment

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I'm not so sure about the other parents. The subject rarely gets around to ER... maybe it's "too far away" for the 40-something crowd? Maybe they're saving up for their own Triumphs?
My friends and I are part of that demographic. We averaged 2 to 3 kids per set of parents. The subject of abandon the rat race and 'mosey thru life' or pursuing your true calling (which is not your current job) is a much discussed and soothing topic especially after a day filled with work place politics.
We didn't explicitly 'share all' financially but we're pretty much represented as follows:
1. Parents with kids who can't afford to ER
2. Parents with kids who can afford to ER but don't have the 'nerve' to do it because 'we have kids to worry about'
3. Couples/singles without kid who can afford to ER but do not want to give up their lifestyle of which they're financially savvy enough to know that they would have to do so. They also have a love-hate relationship with their jobs which adds to their ambivalence and what we called 'hamster on a wheel' syndrome.
4. Couples/singles with kid who have ER'ed but are struggling to raise kid(s) with ER values and lifestyle vs. the relatively finance-worry-free of their friends' working parents.

So my take aways are that it's easier if you're without kids or you're part of a working/ER'ed couple or you get lucky and the endless XCEL formulas adjustments become intellectual exercises that you're engaged in just for kick.

For disclosure, I'm #4 and in all honesty, I'm not sure that I would raise my kid the same way if I'm still working full time.
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Re: How do you deal with envy/hostility to ER?
Old 07-22-2004, 10:12 PM   #62
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Re: How do you deal with envy/hostility to ER?

Heh, as a new father, I am finally starting to really understand the kind of constraint that kids provide. We are well on our way to ER and we always planned (and succeeded at) one of us being at home with the kids (my wife, somewhat to my sorrow), but it is amazing how quickly your careful planning can become eclipsed by the kiddos. There is college to fund, all the incremental costs that come with kids, worries about doing a good job of raising them and imparting the right values and lessons, etc. All of a sudden, it isn't just about making sure your portfolio is big enough.

Its worth it, though. I just hope that I ER early enough to get soe time with the kids before they leave home. I have always been careful to pick jobs that leave me with time for "real life" but there is never enough time to spend with family.
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Re: How do you deal with envy/hostility to ER?
Old 07-22-2004, 10:32 PM   #63
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Re: How do you deal with envy/hostility to ER?

For those of you who have raised or are raising kids while in ER:

Do you find it hard to get your kids to realize how difficult it is to retire early? It does require an incredible amount of work (picking a career that pays well, living well below your means, etc.) yet they are only seeing the reward and not the sacrifice.



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Re: How do you deal with envy/hostility to ER?
Old 07-23-2004, 07:16 AM   #64
 
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Re: How do you deal with envy/hostility to ER?

I've never talked to my kids about the details of my ER, nor my divorce, probably the 2 defining events of my
life to date. Not sure why. I wanted to discuss both,
but they never asked so I never volunteered info.
They must have had questions. The only thing that comes to mind is that they knew I always did just about
what I wanted to do, when I decided to do it, and relied
mostly on my own internal compass. Still...............................

John Galt
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Re: How do you deal with envy/hostility to ER?
Old 07-23-2004, 08:44 AM   #65
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Re: How do you deal with envy/hostility to ER?

Quote:
Do you find it hard to get your kids to realize how difficult it is to retire early? *It does require an incredible amount of work (picking a career that pays well, living well below your means, etc.) yet they are only seeing the reward and not the sacrifice.


Whakamole
I can't say exactly, but I can share my experience. I was a 'late' arrival for both of my parents, especially my father. I believe he was around 47 when I was hatched. He retired around age 62, and I spent a fair amount of time with him after he was retired.

His lifestyle changed dramatically after he retired. He worked as hard or harder, but it wasn't at a job. I helped him as much as I could, not always wanting to, but doing it anyway.

He has been gone for a few years, but I look back and now remember how fulfilling that work was. I guess that is what really drives me to ER. I have tasted what it's like to work becuase you want to, or because you derive satisfaction from what you are doing. I believe that is how it was instilled in me.

I find it both a blessing and a curse.
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Re: How do you deal with envy/hostility to ER?
Old 07-23-2004, 10:16 AM   #66
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Re: How do you deal with envy/hostility to ER?

Quote:
*I have tasted what it's like to work becuase you want to, or because you derive satisfaction from what you are doing. *I believe that is how it was instilled in me.

I find it both a blessing and a curse.
Bow-Tie,

Could you expand on this? The blessing part is easy; but I guess I don't have the imagination to see how it could be a curse?

Mikey
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Retiring is easy, affording it is hard.
Old 07-23-2004, 11:26 AM   #67
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Retiring is easy, affording it is hard.

Whak,

Living with ER parents must suck. Our kid has to get up early every weekday, get ready for school, and say goodbye as we're wiping the sleep out of our eyes and planning a day of surfing or laziness. At least yesterday we were working on the roof, but most of the time the kid sees our playtime start when the schoolbus arrives. My parents had the decency to wait until I'd launched from the nest and started my own career before they retired.

OTOH there's a definite attitude of "Hey, it can't be THAT hard. If my parents managed to ER despite their clearly evident stupidity to me and all my teenage friends, then surely I'll be able to learn how to do it too." "ER homeschool" is always in session at our house. I'm sure our kid takes comfort knowing that the parents are always there to help with risk profiles, asset allocation, fund selection, and rebalancing. Yep, no doubt that's a top priority.

We also point out that we liked some parts of our careers, but not enough to continue doing them for the rest of our life. And we've liked some of the job offers, too, but not enough to put up with the loss of family time. Our kid is going through the veterinary obsession right now, and we're advocating "do what you love". That way you can choose whether or not to ER instead of running screaming from the workforce.

I don't know if this is typical 12-year-old behavior, but our kid obsesses about getting the heck outta the house and into college. I'm happy to support that initiative and at least there's no sign of wanting a military career like Mom & Dad.

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Re: How do you deal with envy/hostility to ER?
Old 07-23-2004, 11:32 AM   #68
 
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Re: How do you deal with envy/hostility to ER?

I truly believe that most people never really think seriously about ER, even though almost anyone could
if they were smart and motivated. I also believe that is why so many are surprised when someone they know actually does it. My family and friends were much taken aback when I hung it up, but that may be because I was
a workahollic for 30 years and made the jump pretty
quickly from there to contented loafer.

John Galt
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Re: How do you deal with envy/hostility to ER?
Old 07-23-2004, 05:08 PM   #69
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Re: How do you deal with envy/hostility to ER?

Nords -

Dont feel bad, just wait a while. Its been my experience that for most children, their parents become demented idiots around the age of 12, regain their intelligence around 22, and become absolute geniuses by 30.

Its an odd phenomena. I'm sort of looking forward to becoming a moron in 12 years. I hear ignorance is bliss.
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Re: How do you deal with envy/hostility to ER?
Old 07-23-2004, 08:26 PM   #70
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Re: How do you deal with envy/hostility to ER?

Quote:
. . . I'm sort of looking forward to becoming a moron in 12 years. . .
Nahhh. . . . I won't comment. *It's too damn easy.

But I picture a bunch of ERs sitting around their houses with dryer sheet underware and milk pouring out of their noses trying to convince their 12 year olds that they are not morons. *It's not a pretty site.
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Re: How do you deal with envy/hostility to ER?
Old 07-23-2004, 09:29 PM   #71
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Re: How do you deal with envy/hostility to ER?

I'm not retired, but as many here know, I quit a workaholic job after a couple of awful years during which I was getting divorced, my sister got cancer, and died (age 47). I inherited a good-sized nest egg from her, which was a blessing because I simply couldn't keep working like I had (psychologist working with severely traumatized people).

My daughter has had two role models: a dad who works 6 days a week and virtually never made any money (until I forced him to go back into teaching). A hard worker, though, and quite frugal. He's just not interested in consumer goods.

And me, a mom who made enough money to keep the family going but worked incredibly hard, then suddenly quit and works part-time, mostly at home, and dabbles in eBay and real estate as well as psychology.

She used to want to be an ER physician, but gave up the idea when I pointed out how stressful it was. She works hard when she has to, but prefers to spend her time on AIM with her friends with MTV going in the background. She got lazy with her school work (letting herself get C's in the only classes that presented any difficulty) and I had to lean on her to bring up those grades. Which she did.

I want her to know how to work, how to work toward a goal, how to be frugal but not miserly with her money, but also how to relax, enjoy herself, find work she loves but not overdo it.

And then other days I'm just so grateful she's not on cocaine or pregnant. :

Anne
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Re: How do you deal with envy/hostility to ER?
Old 07-24-2004, 03:28 AM   #72
 
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Re: How do you deal with envy/hostility to ER?

Hello Anne. My 3 kids have very different attitudes
about career/work and I have made little effort
to steer them. My son is 38 and recently married.
For his whole life he has been a gypsy, career-wise and
location-wise. A happy guy though. MY oldest daughter
(33) is a stay at home mom (4 kids) who home schools
(Busy busy). My youngest daughter is 20 and a junior in college. Like George Bush, she was born on third base and thought she hit a triple. However, they all
turned out great. Happy, well-adjusted and college
grads (or soon will be). Have no clue about their ideas on ER,
although my son has been kind of semiretired since he started
working

John Galt
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Re: How do you deal with envy/hostility to ER?
Old 07-24-2004, 10:24 AM   #73
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Re: How do you deal with envy/hostility to ER?

Quote:

Nahhh. . . . I won't comment. It's too damn easy.
Gosh. I'm torn between "At least I can do math", "Dont worry, I'll be down there with you soon" and...

yep...

Blow me!
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Re: How do you deal with envy/hostility to ER?
Old 07-24-2004, 09:24 PM   #74
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Re: How do you deal with envy/hostility to ER?

John -

It's good to hear that parents who don't worry quite so much (as I do) over their kids get good ones, too. I agree about your son and ER; I have a stepdaughter whose career looks something like I imagine your gypsy son's, and she is the happiest kid in the clan.

On my good days (less worried) I realize that I have a terrific kid, who gets good grades but doesn't slave until midnight to be valedictorian. Who plays a completely adequate goaltender in ice hockey but refuses to go to overnight hockey camp again because they work her too hard. Going to 2 weeks of half-day camp, instead. Whose many years (and occasionally stellar) goaltending has landed her an invitation to apply to prep school, with about a 60% scholarship.

I need to worry less!

Anne
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Re: How do you deal with envy/hostility to ER?
Old 07-25-2004, 04:26 AM   #75
 
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Re: How do you deal with envy/hostility to ER?

Hello Anne! Yes, you need to worry less. It's a combination of luck and parenting and I guess I'd better
give my ex. a lot of credit for how my kids turned out.
I think I did my best considering I was in full workaholic mode for most years they were growing up. When I
was a kid (especially a teen) I was a real disaster.
Never had much respect for authority (still don't).
Really quite unmanageable. Barely graduated from high
school. I think they just wanted to get rid of me.
No college until later and then it took 10 years of night school to get an associate degree. Yet, over my 30+ years working I became President/CEO of four (4)
corporations and semiretired at age 49. You just never know.

John Galt
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Re: How do you deal with envy/hostility to ER?
Old 07-25-2004, 09:19 PM   #76
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Re: How do you deal with envy/hostility to ER?

Kids learn by example. After watching me sweat it out for 20 yrs (okay, did not work as long as some of you but it felt like it as I was on pager even when off duty), then retire semi-early at 52, they take great pleasure in telling me who else has retired. My words come out of dtr's mouth when dealing with her kids ... she is trying like hell to get the mortgage paid off by the time she is 50 ... her hubby is heavily into contributing to his 401K. Son is buring the 'midnight oil' by putting in long extra hours to get ahead, planning on leaving at 50. Kids get it
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Re: How do you deal with envy/hostility to ER?
Old 07-26-2004, 06:35 AM   #77
 
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Re: How do you deal with envy/hostility to ER?

And my son semiretired right out of high school.
He's 38 and still making it work. Maybe it's in the genes?

John Galt
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Re: How do you deal with envy/hostility to ER?
Old 07-26-2004, 12:10 PM   #78
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Re: How do you deal with envy/hostility to ER?

Quote:

Bow-Tie,

Could you expand on this? The blessing part is easy; but I guess I don't have the imagination to see how it could be a curse?

Mikey

Mikey,

The blessing is obvious, but the curse is I'm only 28 and working because I have to, knowing how great the alternative is. Certainly not ideal.
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Re: How do you deal with envy/hostility to ER?
Old 07-26-2004, 01:02 PM   #79
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Re: How do you deal with envy/hostility to ER?

John Galt,

I can't say I'm surprised that you were hell on wheels as a kid (Hey, everybody, if anybody was surprised, raise your hand! Yeah, I thought so.). I was workaholicking my way through my kid's childhood, too, but at the same time trying to be the MOM - you know, the one who bakes ghost cakes at Halloween to bring to the 3rd grade party, who dyes last year's white bride costume and adds a few layers of tulle to make it into this year's pink princess costume, who decorates a birthday cake with a handmade hockey stick and puck (dark chocolate icing on the puck), ETC!!

Wow, am I glad to be off of THAT treadmill. Working too much is NOT a good combination with trying to really BE there as a parent. Of course, now that I'm taking it easier, the kid is going off to boarding school! Still, with my newfound freedom, I'll be able to go see her Weds and Saturday games, and more. This is definitely the good life.

Anne
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Re: How do you deal with envy/hostility to ER?
Old 07-26-2004, 01:42 PM   #80
 
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Re: How do you deal with envy/hostility to ER?

Hello Anne. Yes, this is the "good life" for sure. I miss my kids though, and having little kids around. All grown up and spread out
geographically now. Speaking of geography, New England
is the only part of the lower 48 that I have not visited.
You made it sound awfully appealing. I am familiar with
NYC. Won't be going back. Country boy

Back on the topic, I have never detected any
envy/hostility from my hard working spouse re. my retirement. I think the reasons for this are very complex.
Anyway, I believe that I am working harder on finding
ways for her
to cut back than she is, and no, she does not love her work. Interesting.

John Galt
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