How do you deal with envy/hostility to ER?

[trumpeting_angel]

I think a lot of women (this is not about Mrs. Galt, of course, since I've never met her or even you!) want and need to know that they are capable of supporting themselves, of carrying their weight, and not rely exclusively on their wealthy husbands. Many tried that in the 50's and 60's and it ended badly!

My ex-husband seemed to feel that if your wife could make a good living, why earn money? Something was wrong with THAT picture.

[BunsGettingFirm]

I think a lot of women (this is not about Mrs. Galt, of course, since I've never met her or even you!) want and need to know that they are capable of supporting themselves, of carrying their weight, and not rely exclusively on their wealthy husbands. Many tried that in the 50's and 60's and it ended badly!

My ex-husband seemed to feel that if your wife could make a good living, why earn money? Something was wrong with THAT picture.

Trumpet, I really don't get the gist of this post. Are you saying that women who are able to make their own living is an experiment that ended badly?

[Martha]

I am the working wife of an early retired husband, the "pumping oil well." I haven't retired yet, mostly because I am worried about health insurance. Neither of us has a pension or retiree health benefits. The cost of health insurance for us, with some preexisting conditions, is high and going higher. It is very hard to budget for that unknown. So it is a question of security for me. My current plan is to try to work part time starting next year and see if that works out for a year or two and then retire if the health insurance works out.

It would be interesting to have a poll. How many here are husbands who are retired with working wives? How many are wives who retired after working, but their husbands still work? (I haven't noticed any). How many are familiies that have retired where both spouses used to work? Where only one used to work? How many are singles?

Martha

[brewer12345]

OK, I'll go first. Not retired yet, but on the path. My wife and I were both working full tme until about 18 months ago. She quit to start a business that is more about keeping her active in her field than raking in the dough (at least for now). I am working full time (and lately hating every minute of it). Our first child was born last month, so my wife is mostly acting as Mommy for now, with the business continuing along (she has two client appointments this week). It works for now. My wife likes her career a lot more than I like mine, but I can't breastfeed and my earning power is substantially greater than hers, so she won the lottery instead of me (she even says that if she had won a couple of million she would be doing basically the same thing as she does now).

I am not happy about work, but the bargain works for us. Her business generates small amounts of cash which will be going directly to ER savings while I cover our nut and secure health insurance. Eventually, I will likely be quitting and she will probably continue to work, since she enjoys her field. I also suspect that when the kiddos are going off to school, she may ramp up her business/work schedule.

You guys might find this amusing: my wife is a career counselor that spend a lot of time helping people figure out what they would enjoy and be good at in terms of a career. Yeah, I can hear the giggles from here...

[Traveler]

In response to Martha M's poll, I'm a single woman (still working) with an SO who retired three years ago. I put him on a plane to Mexico this morning where he's going to hang out for ten days with another retired (guy) friend. I'm trying to force myself to get to my office.

Nine months to go before I take the plunge into ER at age 49. I can hardly wait....

Hello Martha M. In the spirit of the "poll", I will flesh
out the details of our arrangement. If more than
you wanted, I apologize.

I semiretired in 1993, fully retired in 1998. Married my
wife (5 years younger) in 2001. She was married once
before and has basically always worked but saved nothing. Also, she has no pension and her SS will
probably be skimpy. My idea was that at some point
we would just live on my money. She seems a bit
uncomfortable with that (see previous post).
Anyway, she is a little short of full time employment,
and in spite of me wishing she would cut back,
that steady paycheck is pretty nice. BTW, my previous
spouse only worked intermittently, but in her defense
she did an excellent job as stay-at-home mom. When she did work, most times it was for me so there was
very little pressure involved (she was sleeping with the
boss)

John Galt

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Hey Jarhead...we're going to have a six month gestation period after our marriage...so its not that it used to be shorter, the time is actually decreasing! As my dad says often "The first one can come at any time, after that, nine months."

I ER'd about six months after meeting my soon-to-be wife. We continued in separate households until about three months ago.

She continues to work for two reasons: she loves it and since she has asthma her healthcare costs would be outrageous.

But we've retooled her income. Oil well is a good name for it, I described it to her as my financial situation being a large battery with a slow charger that screws up and siphons off some of the charge without warning, while hers is an engine with continuous power supplied. In either case, her oil well or engine is now tuned to produce energy towards retirement. We've put all our health care on her group plan, maxed her pretax plans, 6k of the after tax goes to funding a roth in both of our names, and most of the rest is going into an after tax investment account.

In that manner, I'm taking the brunt of day to day expenses while she makes her own "battery".

All goes according to plan, we'll have two batteries to fund our lives after 55, while still living a pretty darn good life between now and then.

[Nords]

My wife works part-time (Naval Reserve); she left active duty a year before I retired. Since she's in the Reserves for six years whether she works or not, she decided to try working.

Her Reserve career has been immensely gratifying. She's met a number of great human beings (all too rare at military commands), we've made a lot of friends, she regularly turns down full-time job offers, and the free trips to Bangkok have been a nice perk. If she'd joined the Reserves a decade ago I would have joined her and never stuck around for an active-duty retirement.

Reserve income has averaged about $15K/year, sometimes more and sometimes less. It's certainly cut down on the SWR (whatever that is) and every day she works is another buck or two into the annual pension that she'll collect at age 60. At this rate her pension will be a third larger than mine so, like John Galt, I'm just going to let that oil well keep pumping. The funding flow will probably trickle to a halt this October or next.

OTOH I've thoroughly contaminated her work ethic. Every workweek is a slow descent through the five stages. By the third morning of her 12-day orders she's had it with commuting, 11-hour days, and office politics. I've learned (ouch) that it's best to avoid reminiscing about gnarly surf or lazy naps and to shift the discussion focus to arduous groundskeeping or disastrous home-improvement setbacks. Her occasional dose of working reality also helps me to pass up the occasional "Gee, you'd be great at this job" offer.

[arrete]

I think a lot of women ... want and need to know that they are capable of supporting themselves, of carrying their weight,

That is exactly why I went to work after the kids were old enough for school. And I did prove to my own satisfaction that I could support myself, even as a FIREe, without any assistance from my husband. In fact, if he and his money disappeared, I'd still make it. It would be tighter , of course, since we share expenses.

How many are wives who retired after working, but their husbands still work? (I haven't noticed any).

Me, me (hand held high in air). My husband enjoys what he does, and enjoys the interactions he has at work. Even though he could retire tomorrow, he prefers to work an abbreviated work week (about 20 hours). Since he is an independent consultant, he doesn't have to deal with a bunch of managerial rigamarole. He and a fellow consultant who is turning 70 agreed that they have fun with what they're doing, and will keep at it until it isn't fun.

Works for me, because his steady paycheck balances out some of the fears I might have about being retired.

arrete

There were several things (income producing) that my wife and I could have done together. I'm talking
work that is also enjoyable. Alas, she missed my
"window of opportunity" by about a decade. For me, any
kind of work or regular schedule has about as much appeal now as a root canal.

John Galt

[JonnyM]

DW is retired, officially for just 2 months now, effectively closer to 2 years. The original plan was for us both FIRE at 50, minimum age permitted under DBP under which we both worked. It would have been modest, but is inflation indexed and medical is paid forever. The plan was also to enhance with intense 457 savings during final years of working. DW was injured OTJ. She can never return, and after dealing with the system since 2002, she is now SCDR, which basically means she now receives a DBP similar to what she would have received in two more years, just without the 457 nestegg that went for living expenses during the interim.

To compensate, I'm going to put in an extra year or two to try to get my 457 up a bit more, and in so doing the extra years of service will boost my DBP payout a few more percentage points. DW will have 2 or 3 years of practice at the ER thing before I get there, and I coudn't be happier for her. She has a fully charged battery, that first check even came with a pile of arrears/backpay duracells, and mine is 90 percent charged up. Just one year until I "could" go, then the two optional years that should go down pretty easy.

[haha]

In response to the poll about working wives- my wife feels that a woman's role is walk around in high heels and a tight dress, and a man's role is to fund that stuff. She is willing to starve herself and go crazy in the gym to keep that up. What can I say- I wish I had better sense, but I don't.

As you have all heard form me, she runs her own life. She may be "hell on wheels", but it isn't boring. If she were to move in with me-doubtful in any case- she would certainly cut back her work. When she first left she wanted me to pay half her expenses, but I told her I would rather take the crap shoot in family court. So she is self funding. Her retirement, if it ever comes, will be on me. I feel that what I have with her isn't bad. I suppose if we broke up we could each go shopping, but I really can't think of anyone that I would like more than her at this stage of my life. ( Or any other stage, I guess.)

I am a control freak about money, but basically a moron when it comes to legs, bottoms,.....

Mikey

Hi Mikey! Well, I am certainly a control freak about money and maybe other stuff as well. Not sure if
I am a moron about the stuff you mentioned in your post but
I suspect there are plenty of females around who think so. Can't begin to tell you how many wanted to
change me. Never went anywhere, I love being me,
flawed as I am. Wouldn't change if I could.

John Galt

[azanon]

How bout doing that poll somewhere else and sticking to this topic here:

Topic: How do you deal with envy/hostility to ER?

I'm not trying to be rude, i just find it very interesting how people dont know how to relate to people that retire early. I'd hate to see this thread drift.

[trumpeting_angel]

Yo, Jarhead -

Thanks for answering while I was away. You straightened out the poor writing in my post effectively and succinctly.

The stream-of-consciousness writing is easy, but to those who are new to what is likely going on in my consciousness, such as it is, possibly incomprehensible.

I'm single so I'm not in the poll. . . and I agree with azanon that it would be a shame to lose this thread, an important topic. Perhaps it should be revived? New thread, maybe?

Anne

[charlie]

When Lyn and I married in '66 we decided, like ex-jarhead, that she would be a homemaker. Both of
us were raised that way so it was very natural for us.
It wasn't until the kids had flown the coop that she
started working part time at wedding co-ordination
for our church. Our life-style is a relic of the past now,
I fear.

Cheers,

Charlie

Hi Charlie. My personal lifestyle is a "relic of the past"
also. I am trying to forestall my becoming one as well

John Galt