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Re: how much income do u need to have a full time MAID?
Old 11-07-2005, 05:39 AM   #41
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Re: how much income do u need to have a full time MAID?

Honkie writes:

Quote:
Quote from: yakers on November 04, 2005, 11:32:54 AM
Quote:
I believe Japan, like the urban US, tries to use technology to cover what would be services in poorer countries, things like dish washers.
The male oriented Japanese society has more impact on this than technology or anything else. Japanese women, once married, are discouraged from working in order to stay at home and raise kids, look after the house and their husband. Thus, little demand for domestic help outside of the "elite". That said, attitudes in Japan are changing a little on this.
I don't know if this explains it. I know plenty of two-career families here in Japan (including my own), and I have never even heard of any of them having a maid. I think a bigger factor is that the typical Japanese home is only maybe 1200-1500 square feet, so there isn't that much use, and certainly no room, for a maid. The cost of labor and the invasion of privacy would also be negative factors, as would the risk of appearing to give oneself airs.

Bpp
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Re: how much income do u need to have a full time MAID?
Old 11-08-2005, 01:53 AM   #42
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Re: how much income do u need to have a full time MAID?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bpp
Honkie writes:

The male oriented Japanese society has more impact on this than technology or anything else. Japanese women, once married, are discouraged from working in order to stay at home and raise kids, look after the house and their husband. Thus, little demand for domestic help outside of the "elite". That said, attitudes in Japan are changing a little on this.

I don't know if this explains it.* I know plenty of two-career families here in Japan (including my own), and I have never even heard of any of them having a maid.* I think a bigger factor is that the typical Japanese home is only maybe 1200-1500 square feet, so there isn't that much use, and certainly no room, for a maid.* The cost of labor and the invasion of privacy would also be negative factors, as would the risk of appearing to give oneself airs.

Bpp
bpp - I wouldn't disagree that your points could also be factors. I would be interested to know whether the two career families also have children - I would suggest probably not - although as I said, attitudes to married career women is changing particularly amongst the young. That said, family units, parents and parents in law are often on hand to take child minding duties.

Space is also a factor, particularly in the cities - I once had (briefly) a 350 sq ft apartment, albeit in th ecentre of Tokyo!!! It had a living/dining, kitchen, bathroom and 1 bedroom. Cosy!

Quote:
Originally Posted by bpp
I think a bigger factor is that the typical Japanese home is only maybe 1200-1500 square feet, so there isn't that much use, and certainly no room, for a maid.
Not strictly true, but an interesting view on how much space is enough. We are not in Japan, but we have 1100 sq ft and have a bedroom with en-suite for our helper.
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Re: how much income do u need to have a full time MAID?
Old 11-08-2005, 06:06 PM   #43
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Re: how much income do u need to have a full time MAID?

Hi Honkie,

Quote:
bpp - I wouldn't disagree that your points could also be factors. I would be interested to know whether the two career families also have children - I would suggest probably not - although as I said, attitudes to married career women is changing particularly amongst the young. That said, family units, parents and parents in law are often on hand to take child minding duties.
Not a very scientific sample, but of 7 two-career families I can think of immediately around me at work, 5 have kids, and one is trying to have kids. Now the 7th one is of an older generation, where the wife really had to fight to be treated the same as the men around her, so she may well have foregone kids for the purposes of career. (Then again, she may have had no interest in kids to begin with.) In any case, her efforts probably made things a lot easier for those who came after.

Where I work, almost no one comes from the local area -- they moved here for the job -- so there isn't much help from parents/in-laws. On the bright side, the public pre-school facilities are excellent, and for school-age kids there are after-school facilities which take care of kids until the parents get home, so these things help fill in the gap.

Quote:
Space is also a factor, particularly in the cities - I once had (briefly) a 350 sq ft apartment, albeit in th ecentre of Tokyo!!! It had a living/dining, kitchen, bathroom and 1 bedroom. Cosy!
Cosy indeed... Then again, you had all of Tokyo for a back yard, right?

Quote:
Quote from: bpp on November 07, 2005, 05:39:54 AM
Quote:
I think a bigger factor is that the typical Japanese home is only maybe 1200-1500 square feet, so there isn't that much use, and certainly no room, for a maid.
Not strictly true, but an interesting view on how much space is enough. We are not in Japan, but we have 1100 sq ft and have a bedroom with en-suite for our helper.
Wow, I couldn't imagine having a non-family member living with us in such a space. You know, when people build "two-generation homes" in Japan, the in-law suite is often fully self-contained, with separate entrance, kitchen, etc. And that's for blood relatives. Having a stranger living in even closer proximity... I'm not sure how well that would fly. For example, I think younger, single folks are more likely to trade off for a much smaller space all to themselves (like yours in Tokyo), than they are to have house-/flat-mates in a bigger space. Though I have to admit I have no hard data on this.

Do you not find that arrangement at all invasive of your privacy?

Bpp
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Re: how much income do u need to have a full time MAID?
Old 11-09-2005, 10:35 AM   #44
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Re: how much income do u need to have a full time MAID?

Living in Germany I have a lady for basic cleaning, averaging 6 h p. week.
Another option for working parents might be an "au pair". However, this cannot be compared to a full time helper, more to a family extension.
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Re: how much income do u need to have a full time MAID?
Old 11-11-2005, 12:17 AM   #45
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Re: how much income do u need to have a full time MAID?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bpp
Wow, I couldn't imagine having a non-family member living with us in such a space.*
...........
Do you not find that arrangement at all invasive of your privacy?

Bpp
I lived for several years in "single" accommodation in the Middle East - from 250 to 350 sq ft - living/dining/litchen plus bathroom and bedroom. Very snug but fine for a single guy. Then I moved to Asia and had very similiar accommodation. When the wife and I moved in together (well gf at the time) we moved up 700 sq ft with two bedrooms and felt like we were rattling around it was so big. It was simply a function of what I/we had become accustomed to. When offspring 1 signalled her arrival, we moved up again to 3 beds in 1100 sq ft plus en-suite and maid room. Wow, this feels palatial now compared previous places. So, to us, we feel we have "a lot" of space, thus having a live in helper doesn't feel like an invasion. We have a feeling of plenty. Plus, all those year in smaller places has meant that we never had a mindset of accummulation of "stuff" so our place is generally free of junk.

Honkie
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Re: how much income do u need to have a full time MAID?
Old 11-15-2005, 04:07 AM   #46
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Re: how much income do u need to have a full time MAID?

In these calculations, let's just assume that the food costs here and in Asia are the same (as well as electricity use, water use, housing expense, etc) and lets look strictly at wage compensation.

At ONLY minimum wage $5.15/hr, 12 hours per day (live-in), you are looking at a daily cost of $72.10.* My guess is that you would have to schedule a day off per week, so the weekly cost would be $72.10 * 6 = $432.60.

$432.60 * 1.14 (medicare, fica, fed, state, payroll costs) = $493.16/wk

Each month you would have healthcare and retirement.* We will keep that minimal too at $450/m and that should cover gifts and expenses, etc.

So annually, ($493.16 * 52) + ($450 x 12) = $31044.53/annum

AND THAT IS JUST MINIMUM WAGE!* Most domestic help in this country that is any good demands $20 per hour part time and $40K - $60K per year full time with full benefits, 2 days off and the option to go home at night.

Welcome to the richest country in the world where ALL of our citizens who work are guaranteed to be AMONG THE HIGHEST INCOME EARNERS on the planet!! Makes a strong case for being an ex-pat.* You can live like a king when you step outside the infrastructure of the US.*

So, back to relative economies, in order to experience the luxury of domestic help while living in the US, one could assume you must have an income relatively equal to what your income in Central America would be.* So if you do well in Central America with an income of $35K/yr, I would expect that all things equal you could achieve close to the same luxury here at $350K - $525K per year (10x to 15x) depending on where you live in the US.

Now to consider the struggle in becoming a KING in the richest country in the world, take a look at:

http://www.globalrichlist.com/index.php

It should make you feel better


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Re: how much income do u need to have a full time MAID?
Old 11-15-2005, 09:14 AM   #47
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Re: how much income do u need to have a full time MAID?

I know many people that earn considerably less than $15K/year, working full time in this country - often without or with limited benefits. They can not get a better paying job than $7-8/hour. These people sometimes have done time or did not get a high school diploma. There are LOTS of these folks out there at this income level. But of course many people do not want these folks in *their* house. If you expect your help to be from an impeccable background with a good education to tutor the kids in addition to cleaning up after you 24/7 and get rid of them when you don't need them any more, good luck (or you have to pay dearly).

The alternative is to get an au pair. These often young foreign girls get paid very little (no minimum wage requirement). They are supposed to help out with the kids and do light housework only while enjoying a cultural exchange for a year or so. Often these kids are used as dirt cheap live in maids working their butts off while their guest families brag about their new status with 'full time help'. It can be a good experience for both parties but unfortunately many of the girls luck out.

If you need 24/7 live in help to survive with your daily chores and kids, maybe it is time to look at how you spend your own time. The average cube dweller or especially ER person should be able to do ok without this type of extensive support. Besides, I would go crazy if I had someone else than my husband in the house at all times.

Vicky
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Re: how much income do u need to have a full time MAID?
Old 11-15-2005, 11:37 AM   #48
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Re: how much income do u need to have a full time MAID?

I have thought about the question of "how much income do I need to have a full time maid" and decided that if I had at least 30 million dollars in assets I would have a full time Factotum. He or she would arrange the cleaning of homes, help me plan my philanthropy, arrange trips, and generally help me with my life.

Oh wait, I have Greg.
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Re: how much income do u need to have a full time MAID?
Old 11-15-2005, 11:46 AM   #49
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Re: how much income do u need to have a full time MAID?

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Oh wait, I have Greg.
...and my deepest sympathy.
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Re: how much income do u need to have a full time MAID?
Old 11-15-2005, 12:55 PM   #50
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Re: how much income do u need to have a full time MAID?

big D,

yup, agree with you and as i have predicted, i would need approx. 10-15 times the salary of the maid.

and yes welcome to the richest country in the world where a full time maid can make as much as some doctor in others country.

but this kind of life style is definetely NOT for the ER. i can NOT imagine the stress level for anyone who make that kind of salary...

enuff
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Re: how much income do u need to have a full time MAID?
Old 11-17-2005, 07:23 AM   #51
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Re: how much income do u need to have a full time MAID?

We have a maid/cleaning service who comes in every week to fix up the place including laundry.

Privacy issues...culture issues...are all mainstream issues. As much as I hate to admit it, it does boil down to your earnings and net worth. People with > 50 mil net worth would have a full time maid/butler/chef etc.

Donald Trump does not do his own laundry. Nor does he do his own cooking. :P
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Re: how much income do u need to have a full time MAID?
Old 11-17-2005, 09:07 PM   #52
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Re: how much income do u need to have a full time MAID?

hire an au pair that's willing to take care of "light cleaning"
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Re: how much income do u need to have a full time MAID?
Old 11-17-2005, 11:43 PM   #53
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Re: how much income do u need to have a full time MAID?

I agree - the au pair is the way to go. Look around, and you'll find some sites where you can get au pairs for fantastic prices, even in Manhattan.
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