How Much is Needed To Retire? (A Twist)

Intending to retire next fall when I will be 33 (and my spouse 32).

Will have approx $1.1M post-tax cash. Need to buy a home out of this though. No debts. Currently live in California but will be relocating to a rural(ish) bit of the North East. Expect to draw $30K p.a. for ever more out of what's left.
 
Anon5, I am puzzled. At your age you must have only worked 20 years max. How did you qualify for a $30,000 pension in that short time? What sort of employer did you have? I would like to pass this info to my sons.

Mikey

First, sorry I didn't keep track of the 'Anon numbering scheme' so for the record, I'm not Anon5 (capital 1st letter).

Mikey - I would venture to say that the answer to your question is any of the 500 Fortune companies that have a good pension plan. The pension is calculated based on 'X' number of of highest average monthly earnings. 'X' is number of months from 5 to 10 years depending on the company. So the point is that the pension does not necessarily mean that you spent 20 years of your career with one company which I did not. I only spent my most highest earning years with the 'pension income' company.
I do think, though, if you really want to ER, pension, however generous, is not the criteria to base your career decision on.
 
Intending to retire next fall when I will be 33 (and my spouse 32).

Will have approx $1.1M post-tax cash. Need to buy a home out of this though. No debts. Currently live in California but will be relocating to a rural(ish) bit of the North East. Expect to draw $30K p.a. for ever more out of what's left.

Do you have any kids? If so what age(s)?
 
Do you have any kids? If so what age(s)?

No. I expect we will have later. I want to make sure we're happy with being ERed before then and that the plan is *actually* going to work. I like the idea of us both being around 24x7 for our children and homeschooling :)
 
I have a comment about following (not following)
directions. I'm a pretty smart guy, always tested
in the 99th percentile on IQ. However, I usually ignore
directions from others, and I have almost no respect for authority of any kind. I barely graduated from high school, and although I was president/CEO of 4
different corporations, I was fired from the 2 that I didn't
own. Anyway, giving me directions is an exercise in
futility. Like Frank Sinatra, I did it my way. Still do.

John Galt
 
anon5-thnaks for pension info

anon5-thanks for the pension primer. I was too short term oriented to give pensions a thought. I can see now that they are a really really good thing. In my real (not virtual) life, almost always if if meet a fairly young man or woman who diesn't have to work it's because of pension- not savings or investment success.

Mikey
 
Anon-5 -
Are you drawing the 30k pension now or are you assuming that is the amount you'll get at normal retirement age? I'm intrigued if the former: are big company pension plans letting people routinely start drawing right away if there are enough years of service or do you typically have to wait to 65 or so?

thx
ESRBob
 
Age ER'd: 49 (Spouse 48, retired same year`)
Year: 2003
Assets: $2m investments, ~50% 401Ks.
Pensions: (4 w/o COLAs) total ~$23K starting @ 55
House: 5.25%, 30yr fixed mortgage on $150K ($825/month)
 
ESRBob,
No. That's why I mentioned that it is 'a long way off' in my previous post and my annual expense is what it is. If it was otherwise, I would double my allocated expense in a NY minute, spend every last cent and never look back. I believe in only saving what I need (based on my current assets/established financial plan/reasonable assumptions) and not a cent more.

Although, in my ER plan and current lifestyle, I'm not factoring in either SS (let's not go there) or pension in the future because I can't get a good sleep on what is outside my control (relatively speaking) and who knows what's going to happen one year from now let alone beyond that. Why did I include them in my bird eye view stats? Because I think of them as my security blanket, it's nice to have and to hold but not much good for anything else.
 
Age ER'd: 51 (Spouse 50)
Year: 2003
Portfolio (at retirement date):
$900K (Post Tax)
$800K 401k (Pre-Tax)
House:
$300K no mortgage
Pension:
DBF $36K (no COLA)
Plus partial paid retiree health insurance.
Initial annual spending budget:
$82K
Includes:
$19K taxes
$2K for our share of health insurance.
$21K other mandatory spending (food, utilities, home maintenance/ insurance, vehicle operating costs, med co-pays, etc.)
$40K discretionary spending (clothing, furniture, travel, vehicle replacement, hobbies, recreation)

NOTE: Could theoretically increase annual spending by an additional $22K if willing to risk a 4.0% withdrawal rate.
Portfolio value has since increased to $1.9M.
 
These are very helpful comments. These show that a lot of folks have huge margins of safety before deciding on ER----well below 4% withdrawal rate, especially if monthly guaranteed pension and near-future SS payments are taken into account. Bravo.
 
Here is the Answer format I am looking for. I think it will be helpful to prospective Retirees. All our lifestyles will be different and at the end of it, hopefully we can get an average, if enough of you participate. Do not include Cars and general purpose assets like furniture Jewelery etc.

Any comments are of course welcome. I think one can do it on $40 per year.

Me:

Age ER'd: 49 (Spouse 44)
Year: 2002
Assets: $1m Cash (Post Tax)
$ 560K 401k (Pre-Tax)
No House (We Rent)

Total Net Worth in Cash tupe assets is $1.56m but have to pay rent. About $1000 per month.

Anon

Age ER'd: 46 (Spouse 46 - retired at 43 in 2000)
Year: 2003
Assets: $3.5m taxable + $1m house (no mortgage), $1m 401k
Total annual spending: $80k
No pensions at all and not counting on SS
Last kid just gone

We should have packed it in much earlier. We could live on $40k a year since that's how we piled most of the money up in the first place.

I am a voracious reader but didn't come across Trinity until late in 2000. Hit smack in the face with that 2x4, it took a good year to percolate through my stubborn layer and then another 18 months to plot a way out. I wasn't about to walk away from all sorts of nearly vested goodies that amounted to nearly $500k and it took almost that long to decide on a good place to shift to.
 
I kinda feel discouraged, seeing that most folks who do ER are already multi-millionaires, which will be a long way for me. Kudos to those who have made it.
 
I kinda feel discouraged, seeing that most folks who do ER are already multi-millionaires, which will be a long way for me. Kudos to those who have made it.

As a young pup, I read somewhere that only the first million is hard. Just out of school in 1977, we started with good educations but a net worth of zero. It took us twenty years to collect the first million. The rest came in six short years (and in case you're wondering, no it wasn't from the Nasdaq runup).

Twenty years of work, saving, spurning dryer sheets (double coupons let us spend zero on laundry detergent 1986-1993 even with 2 kids, until P&G wised up), always taking freebies (enrolled in every ESOP, contributed enough to get the max 401k match, took any course our employers would pay for). Twenty years!

Then everything paid off at once.

Be patient and keep the faith. It could take you twenty years too. You'll still be young. You have a big advantage over me - I didn't know about any of this.
 
Damn, some of you people have socked away some serious cash! Well done :)

I'm thinking that with $1.1M at 33 we can can make it in ER. I guess if my wife and I kept slogging away at our well paying but soul destroying jobs for the next 20 years we could retire at 50 with multi-millions. I don't think we could bear it.

So, if the first mil is hard, how did you make the following ones so quickly? Just investment income starting to snowball?

Impressed and heartened :D
 
I kinda feel discouraged, seeing that most folks who do ER are already multi-millionaires, which will be a long way for me.  Kudos to those who have made it.

It's hard work and luck. You work hard and because you work hard and good at what you do, luck favors you one day and you grab it and hang on for the ride. So you may think it's a long way today but it may not be that long tomorrow. Just one scenario to consider... OR if you are not into hard work, but into luck, there is the lottery. OTOH, if you are into hard work but luck avoids you.....so many things come to mind that it's hard to pick just one.

Seriously, I do believe in hard work if your goal is ER, without it you will be less prepared for luck when it comes calling.
 
Really interesting posts. A lot of y'all are swinging pretty heavy bats.

Mikey
 
Re. "swinging heavy bats", not me. Man, I look at those
numbers and think "Damn! If I'd had half of that base
I could have retired at 40. My wife wouldn't be workin'
either". On the other hand, I have a great life, so........

John Galt
 
Be patient and keep the faith.  It could take you twenty years too.  You'll still be young.  You have a big advantage over me - I didn't know about any of this.


Thanks for the encouragement. We're still in 30's, so I guess time is on our side. Any folks (beside Unclemick) who ERed at under 1 m?
 
I think we will.

After we've relocated and bought a home I can see us having $700K (post tax) left to live off - which works out at $30K p.a. for the next 65 years. Should cover the mandatory stuff, and our fun little hobby business (no TPS reports required) will cover the other stuff.
 
It's hard work and luck.
I'll second that. Be good at what you do, save like crazy, take calculated risks, and take advantage of any luck that comes your way.

Looking back at some decisions I made, I turned down three gigs that would have made me a multi-millionaire, and I left options on the table that would have been worth $1M+. Which just goes to show that you can blow it several times and still come out OK :)
 
We have about $600k in income producing financial
assets plus a small business worth about $75k.

Lyn and I live very comfortably (to much so?) on
$21k SS plus $25k IRA withdrawal. The business
generated about $5k cash flow last year.

My IRA is worth more today than it was when I
retired at age 55 in 1989. That is after withdrawal
of about $470k through 2003. I figure the compound
annual return was about 8.7% during that time.

If not for the grace of God, the boom years of the 90s
and a small inheritance from Lyn's folks, we might be
eating alpo about now. OTOH, we are pretty flexible
and could have cut expenses a lot if necessary.

So far, so good.

Cheers,

Charlie
 
I guess if my wife and I kept slogging away at our well paying but soul destroying jobs for the next 20 years we could retire at 50 with multi-millions. I don't think we could bear it.

I don't think you should. Your souls are worth more than millions. Had we known about Trinity at the end of 1998, which is as close as I can tell the first time the portfolio hit $1m, we might have bailed there and then. I am prone to analysis paralysis, so it might have been another couple of years anyway and most everything would have paid off in any case.

So, if the first mil is hard, how did you make the following ones so quickly? Just investment income starting to snowballl?

Some of it, yes. I knew nothing about investing until the late 90s. I screwed around, thinking I was smart, buying this, selling that, making basically nothing. If I had had even two neurons earlier, we could have passively ridden the bull market and made tons more before I got religion. We made nothing in the Internet runup but we lost nothing in the collapse. Since 2000, about $1m.

The rest was just a bunch of things that all paid off around the same time.

- We know zip about houses and we are not handy but we lucked into buying at two dead times in two different locales, hired competent people to reno them to our taste, and then had both markets get hot and vindicate both our choice of location and taste. Pure dumb luck. $700k.
- Both of our employers wanted to turn DB pensions into DC pensions at a time when interest rates were low. $250k.
- Employer got into hot water by buying another company which was (my opinion, y'unnerstan, cuz I worked in a different division) a borderline fraud. Nobody went to jail but the stock price went down 60% in a rocketing bull market. Owned stock, owned options, and we were sick to our stomachs. The great thing about a lower stock price is that, next time bonus time comes around, the stock and option grants have to be a lot bigger. If you can ride it out, you get to cash in. $250k.
- Education plus experience plus continuing ed plus doing what's required and on time gets noticed eventually. Our joint AGI grew 10x in 20 years. Our spending roughly doubled. We banked the difference. $500k.
- We maxed out 401ks and took the employer matches. Both of our employers had stock purchase plans, mine capped at 15% of gross, hers at 10%. We maxed those. We both worked with people who spent next January's bonus this September. We waited until January and banked it all. $400k.
- At most employers, you lose your stock and option awards when you leave. Ours both had provisions that awards survived being laid off, plus you got severance. A combo of luck (a recession) and engineering (quietly holding up your hand) and we were both laid off. $250k so far, another $50-100 still possible.

I don't know where the rest is from. I suppose it's things like washing Ziploc bags instead of tossing them, hanging clothes to dry on the cherry tree, using frequent flier miles to book business class tickets and then bunking with friends temporarily posted to Rome, having no or one car, telling the youngest that she should get a job if she wants a car, mowing my own lawn, contentedly using 5 year old computers and 10 year old software.
 
We have about $600k in income producing financial assets plus a small business worth about $75k.

Lyn and I live very comfortably (to much so?) on $21k SS plus $25k IRA withdrawal. The business generated about $5k cash flow last year.
Thanks Charlie! While it's interesting to hear from folks who have managed to accumulate millions, that's more of a reflection on their success at making money while they were employed. I'm interested in hearing more details from some of the folks like yourself who live very well despite the fact that they ER'd without the ironclad security of 1.5 million plus. That is a terrific accomplishment, and it provides hope to many who want to follow in your footsteps, yet aren't earning six/seven figure incomes. Congratulations!
 
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