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Old 05-19-2013, 08:38 AM   #41
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I plan on going next January. I let the boss know a few months ago. Which means about a year's notice. We are going to have a rash of retirements coming up...about 1/4 of the staff. All will be retiring in less than a 2 year period in a place that has not had any real turnover in more than 10 years.

By giving a notice so far in advance gives me and the boss time to watch the players left on the stage do their acts. It's been a good career. If I harbored ill will, I would have kept quiet and dropped a short notice. But, I don't have any hard feelings. I just want to get on with my life and things go smoothly for the one's that are left.

I am beginning to feel liberated knowing this will soon be just a memory and a new exciting chapter is about to open. And it's nice to be in the group that is bailing and leaving the victims behind. I know they are envious. Red Rover, Red Rover...send Dave on over...Woo Hooo!
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Old 05-19-2013, 09:11 PM   #42
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I vote for Friday morning of your last day. And spend the rest of Friday in HR making out the papers.

IMHO, you do have a strange view of your importance. A company is a machine to make money for somebody--and it is probably not you. It is not your family.

Working is like a poker game: if you haven't figured out who the sucker is in the first ten minutes, it is you. You owe them nothing.
I disagree. I have long-term friendships with some of these people. They have given me a lot of support and showed me a lot of kindness over the years. They have had my back; they have stood beside me when I needed them to; and they have helped me to grow as both a person and a professional. They have placed a lot of faith and confidence in me. I can't just say "F. you, I'm outta here." I owe them some notice, some advance warning, so they can make some adjustments to my leaving. I wouldn't want to end things in the abrupt way you're suggesting. It would leave a bad taste in my mouth. It wouldn't seem professional to me. I'd feel like I was being a d*ck to people I like and feel grateful toward.

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I thought they would have a hard time replacing me, but what they did was to split up my job among several others, including one who was new and had nothing yet to do. ... Remember, in a good, effective organization nobody is indispensible.
I wonder if some people took my remark about my irreplaceability seriously. Humor gets lost on the internet sometimes. I meant the remark as a joke, tongue in cheek. I know I'm not irreplaceable. I don't harbor any illusions about that. I do have an odd, rather "niche" job, especially the way it is set up in my current workplace -- but there are several ways they could go about transferring the responsibility to someone(s) else.

Thank you, I'll read those threads for ideas, too.

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Look at it another way. Has your company put any effort into succession planning? Have they sought out talented people, ensured that they have the required training, and encouraged you to mentor them? If not, that is their problem, not yours. Given that you have a niche function, give them the six months' notice, but once you have done so, do not waver.
No, the company really has not made much of an effort to arrange for a successor. There are various reasons for that -- lack of interested candidates, budget problems eliminating trainee positions; and the belief that I will stay until I am much older. You are right: that is their problem, not mine.

Good advice about not wavering, once I've put the notice in.

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You are assuming that they will want to replace yourself with a clone of you. That might not be the case. When they selected my replacement he was the opposite of me. I was very hands-on. He was an administrator. Turns out management wanted to have contract workers do the hands on and the administrator administrate. Didn't do any knowledge transfer at all.
I don't think I'm assuming they'll want a clone of me. In fact, in some ways, I bet they will not. I am an introvert, and I just like to do the work and not bother with the social/marketer aspects of the job. They would probably prefer someone who's more extroverted and self-promoting in my position.

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Have you considered transitioning to part time or some post retirement consulting with them? If so, that might be part of the transition plan but as others have advised, don't waver - these organizations will take all you are willing to give so you need to set boundaries and stick to them.
I've considered it, but my preference is to stop completely. I'm tired of the work. It's become pretty dull and repetitive to me. I'd like to just leave it behind and start a new chapter of my life. I'm concerned that if I stayed on part-time, I would still be tied there, with a little more free time but still immersed in that culture, still preoccupied with work stuff during leisure hours, still doing the same stuff. I'd rather move on.

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It's been a good career. If I harbored ill will, I would have kept quiet and dropped a short notice. But, I don't have any hard feelings. I just want to get on with my life and things go smoothly for the one's that are left.
Yeah, that's kinda how I'm feeling, too.
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Old 05-22-2013, 09:55 AM   #43
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We had to downsize 20% of the staff. We took a planned approach with the benefit of an HR consulting firm. Announced and completed in 2 weeks.

All the ripples were gone after 6 months. Most of the 20% ended up in better jobs by that time.
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Old 05-22-2013, 10:39 AM   #44
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I will have to figure this out by some time early next year. I have a goal of being free of the day job by the time the kids are done with school next may at the absolute latest. I could be ready to split as soon as 1/1/14. So far what I am thinking is the following:

I don't have anything burning that I have to run to immediately, so I can be flexible about my departure. While I have some misgivings about the organization I work for and I frankly never wanted to (or dreamed I would be) do this kind of work, getting a job in late 2008 was a godsend, getting a transfer to my target ER area was a godsend, and the people I work with and for I mostly like and respect. I don't want to leave them in a bad situation and I would even consider consulting/contract work for them after I bail. I have a hard deadline I have set for myselff timed with the school schedule, but that is about it. Accordingly, I am thinking that when I am ready I will call my direct boss and explain the situation and negotiate an end date. Given the nature of the work, they might tell me to leave the building immediately so I would be prepared for that. OTOH, they might ask for a transition period of several weeks, which I would be OK with.

Any big holes in my line of thinking?
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Old 05-22-2013, 10:47 AM   #45
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Any big holes in my line of thinking?
Nope, sounds like you have it all covered.
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Old 05-22-2013, 05:41 PM   #46
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When I left after 30 years I gave 3 weeks notice. Retirment group had told me l that was OK. Megacorp treated it like a termination, in a good way. Co-workers amazed me with multiple celebrations.

I didn't want too tip my hand too early, while I enjoyed my time there, I know if they wanted me gone during my 30 years, that's more notice than I would have been given.
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Old 05-23-2013, 11:23 AM   #47
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Megacorp treated it like a termination...

. . . because that is exactly what it is.


EVERY employee eventually terminates.
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Old 05-23-2013, 01:49 PM   #48
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DH had "the retirement talk" with his VP a little past mid-February. The VP requested that DH delay submitting official papers so that a replacement could be found and to facilitate a smooth transition. DH told him that his preference would be to retire at the end of April, but that he would stay another month if necessary to facilitate a smooth transition - over 90 days notice.

Once DH wrote the rec for his replacement as requested by his VP (completed and submitted to the VP the next week), the VP and HR kept dragging their heels. Two weeks passed, then a month, then six weeks and the rec was still not "in the system". Seeing no effort to really get the show on the road, DH decided to take the bull by the horns and submitted his paperwork for a 5/31 exit.

TODAY they are FINALLY doing panel interviews with (4) candidates. Tomorrow is an off-Friday and Monday is a holiday, so after today DH has (4) working days left. There will be no time for him to be involved in the transition, so he has put together a back-up transition plan. It requires his management team to familiarize his replacement with how DH's organization has been run and the function of each his reports. It is not the optimal way to facilitate a transition and he could do OMM (one more month), which he might have been willing to do if the the problem had been that an "adequate" replacement took longer than expected to find, but that has not been the case.

He's pretty sure that if he had given them six month's notice, the outcome would have been similar.

In working time he has 4 days, 4 hours, and 15 minutes left to work!!
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Old 05-23-2013, 03:17 PM   #49
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. . . the VP and HR kept dragging their heels. Two weeks passed, then a month, then six weeks and the rec was still not "in the system".
In some cases the hiring manager is not allowed to add the replacement to the payroll until the employee who is leaving has terminated.
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Old 05-23-2013, 03:34 PM   #50
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I don't think you appreciate how irreplaceable I am.

har. Actually, what will probably determine my length of notice will be my own indecisiveness. The more I thought about it, the less I could imagine giving 12 months notice, because I knew that over those 12 months, I would probably change my mind about ER half a dozen times. Anyone who follows the Class of 2014 thread has already seen me change my mind twice in the space of a month. And those are only the documented changes/flip-flops. There are plenty more happening in my head all the time ("one more year"?).

More notice = more time to doubt my decision and change my mind. So perhaps less than 6 months would be good, especially if I have any remaining doubt at that point.
How soon will your subordinate be retiring? Or are you leaving before him? Will he leave if he finds out you are leaving? Will they need to replace two people at once?
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Old 05-23-2013, 04:36 PM   #51
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In some cases the hiring manager is not allowed to add the replacement to the payroll until the employee who is leaving has terminated.
That's true; but at DH's level a period of transition is preferred if at all possible.
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:11 PM   #52
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How soon will your subordinate be retiring? Or are you leaving before him? Will he leave if he finds out you are leaving? Will they need to replace two people at once?
My subordinate/friend says he plans to cut back to part-time around the time I retire. He originally planned to retire in 5 years, but when I told him I was leaving in about 16 months, he moved his timetable up a little and said he plans to cut back to part-time around the same time. If he follows through on that, it would leave a bigger hole for the company to fill. He plans on retiring completely a couple years after that.

Which I hope he does! He jokes about having "no life" outside of work. He says it humorously, but it is also a sad truth. He's 70. He's got, what, maybe a decade or so left. He's worked hard for his family for many decades. He deserves to step out and enjoy himself.

Unfortunately, he gets a lot of his sense of importance/accomplishment from work, and he's "old school" in that he views retirement as being put out to pasture, a sign of the end. Also, he has a taste for expensive houses, new cars, supporting his wife's expensive tastes, and other things that keep retirement out of reach for him. Which is perhaps how he wants it. I think retirement sort of scares or saddens him, feels like a defeat in some way.
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Old 05-23-2013, 06:42 PM   #53
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Old 05-23-2013, 11:23 PM   #54
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When I left my job, I gave the 3 months notice as per my contract and mentioned to my boss that I can stay on for a few more weeks if they need me to narrow the time gap if a replacement is unable to join soon. I ended up staying on a few weeks more and everyone including myself are happy with the arrangement. One of my friends gave word that she intended to retire soon and contractually, she is only required to give 3 months. Similar to my situation, she indicated she is willing to stay on to narrow time gap. She was kept on for a few months with unpaid leave gap in between. So, ask yourself how long you are willing to be kept on (if required) in addition to the contractual notice and then speak to your boss.
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Old 05-24-2013, 07:46 AM   #55
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My subordinate/friend says he plans to cut back to part-time around the time I retire. He originally planned to retire in 5 years, but when I told him I was leaving in about 16 months, he moved his timetable up a little and said he plans to cut back to part-time around the same time. If he follows through on that, it would leave a bigger hole for the company to fill. He plans on retiring completely a couple years after that.

Which I hope he does! He jokes about having "no life" outside of work. He says it humorously, but it is also a sad truth. He's 70. He's got, what, maybe a decade or so left. He's worked hard for his family for many decades. He deserves to step out and enjoy himself.

Unfortunately, he gets a lot of his sense of importance/accomplishment from work, and he's "old school" in that he views retirement as being put out to pasture, a sign of the end. Also, he has a taste for expensive houses, new cars, supporting his wife's expensive tastes, and other things that keep retirement out of reach for him. Which is perhaps how he wants it. I think retirement sort of scares or saddens him, feels like a defeat in some way.
I feel bad for people who are really planning for virtually no retirement. I worked in a MegaCorp IT department where everyone had to worry about layoffs. (For one thing, the goal was to move 80 to 90% of staffing to India.) Lots of people had over 25 years in and I feel had every opportunity to save enough, but they were still terrified of being laid off. One person told me that the only package he could live with would be 100% of his salary. I know it's not always a financial decision--some people don't know what they would do with the time if they retired, but I find that sad too.
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Old 05-24-2013, 04:37 PM   #56
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I find it sad, too. I want more for him than that. But that's how he's chosen to live his life, and I think he sees the tradeoffs as justified. Different strokes, I guess.

It's a little scary, when I imagine being in that situation myself. Think about what that would feel like -- knowing in your bones that you would never retire, that you would work full time at your job for the rest of your life.

I have enough trouble waiting 16 months! If I knew that I had to work full time for the rest of my life -- another 20+ years, probably -- I would probably blow my head off. Well, not really, but I would feel absolutely miserable, frustrated, and trapped.
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Old 05-24-2013, 07:58 PM   #57
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To the OP : I would just be fair to my employer. Call HR, ask what is common practice, follow it, and move on. Keep it simple.
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Old 05-24-2013, 10:47 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed_The_Gypsy
I vote for Friday morning of your last day. And spend the rest of Friday in HR making out the papers.

IMHO, you do have a strange view of your importance. A company is a machine to make money for somebody--and it is probably not you. It is not your family.

Working is like a poker game: if you haven't figured out who the sucker is in the first ten minutes, it is you. You owe them nothing.


I disagree. I have long-term friendships with some of these people. They have given me a lot of support and showed me a lot of kindness over the years. They have had my back; they have stood beside me when I needed them to; and they have helped me to grow as both a person and a professional. They have placed a lot of faith and confidence in me. I can't just say "F. you, I'm outta here." I owe them some notice, some advance warning, so they can make some adjustments to my leaving. I wouldn't want to end things in the abrupt way you're suggesting. It would leave a bad taste in my mouth. It wouldn't seem professional to me. I'd feel like I was being a d*ck to people I like and feel grateful toward.
OK, I was being crude. In fact, I have similar feelings as you with respect to my present work situation, to the extent that I would have no difficulty giving 3 month's notice. Such relationships are not common, though. Most of us are more or less slaves.

But 16 months?
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Old 05-25-2013, 07:54 AM   #59
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OK, I was being crude. In fact, I have similar feelings as you with respect to my present work situation, to the extent that I would have no difficulty giving 3 month's notice. Such relationships are not common, though. Most of us are more or less slaves.

But 16 months?
Oh no, I'm not giving 16 months notice. I've got 16 months until retirement. I'm planning on giving 6 months notice, maybe less.
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Just a little different perspective
Old 05-25-2013, 08:52 AM   #60
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Just a little different perspective

A very good business acquaintance/friend of mine, hardworking, as-loyal-as-you-can-be to megaCorp just gave his 2 week notice. He and I started about the same time, approximately 9 years ago. We're peers, in different facilities, met through work and hit it off. We have similar work ethics and have always been excellent employees. We were bought about a year ago by a mega megaCorp and truly it's been downhill since. Overall, there's been a lot of change (not for the better) here and at his facility, new organization and new management. Since we're middle management, we've taken the brunt of the bad news and both of us have tried to "soften" the new corporate overlords message to our staffs, which as most of you know, is how can we make more money, even if it means stealing from the employees. So far, we're down about 12% in total compensation so far not including the bonus plan which have mysteriously not been discussed this year. Unfortunately, he'd finally reached his breaking point when they hired a real clown (from the takeover business) to run the facility and be his direct supervisor. He also works in a area of decent employment options and opportunities, so he found another job almost immediately. With a new company taking over and a new boss, moving to somewhere else across the street is pretty easy.

However, he kept his 2 week notification cordial, professional and was not going to a competitor. Well, he (and we) were shocked when the new boss "walked" him to the door the next morning. They even didn't let him pack up any personnel belongings (said they would send them to him) and they cut him loose immediately, cancelled benefits, pay, sent a e-mail to all saying he was not allowed in the facility except by HR, etc. He just laughed it off, good for him. Personally, I'd be pissed and though I had planned to give my boss some extra notice when I go (soon enough), no way in hell. I'll work right up to the day, then give my two week notice. Yep, it may cause me to work two weeks more or if they behave similarly, I'll already have my personnel effects packed and ready to go.

So, as a word of advice, quoting the Boy Scout motto, "Be Prepared". The timing of your final workdays and giving notice may be much different than you anticipate.
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