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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE
Old 05-25-2005, 07:34 PM   #41
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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnP
In honor of receiving my very first SS check today (all $227/mo of it, a victim of the dreaded WEP clause) I thought I'd post my estimate of expenses for a retired couple with a 19 year old living with them.*

To do this estimate, I took our quicken expenses for the past year and deducted house & car payments, investment payments,* etc to get to a basic living expenses spreadsheet.* The bottom line is that we spend about $3,800/month for basic living without factoring in state and federal taxes.* The $3,800/month does not include a factor for replacing appliances, etc but does includes property taxes, family health care, and LTC ins for us.* *

I've concluded that we're 'in the pack' , maybe on the slightly high side, in terms of costs for a retired couple LBYMing.

JohnP
Whoa! $227 a month? My ER would be DOA. PDQ!

JG
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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE
Old 05-25-2005, 08:23 PM   #42
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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE

And another thing.................if a motivated single person can't live on 18K a year, out in the country......................................well they can. Any single person in the USA can live on 18K per year (or less) easily. You have to use your brains and pick your spot. A slam dunk!

JG
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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE
Old 05-25-2005, 08:33 PM   #43
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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE

Yakers

None of my son's college costs are included in our monthly basic living costs - we funded a CollegeAdvantage account that covers the college costs. *

MRGALT2U

I have a fed pension and only 13 years under SS from military time and working during high school, college and while opening the first computer store in town *1976 to 1983. *If one has a non-SS-contributing pension you are subject to the Windfall Elimination Program (WEP) that basically reduces the small SS payment for 13 years by about 60% leaving me with the $227/mo. *It's a small benefit but I did pay into SS for those years. *The WEP reduction ramps from 60% at 20 years service and under to zero if one had 30 or more years SS credit along with a non-SS-contributing pension. *

For me to get a higher SS benefit meant that I needed to work another 7+ years to reduce the WEP hit... *No way.

JohnP
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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE
Old 05-25-2005, 08:37 PM   #44
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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnP
Yakers

None of my son's college costs are included in our monthly basic living costs - we funded a CollegeAdvantage account that covers the college costs. *

MRGALT2U

I have a fed pension and only 13 years under SS from military time and working during high school, college and while opening the first computer store in town *1976 to 1983. *If one has a non-SS-contributing pension you are subject to the Windfall Elimination Program (WEP) that basically reduces the small SS payment for 13 years by about 60% leaving me with the $227/mo. *It's a small benefit but I did pay into SS for those years. *The WEP reduction ramps from 60% at 20 years service and under to zero if one had 30 or more years SS credit along with a non-SS-contributing pension. *

For me to get a higher SS benefit meant that I needed to work another 7+ years to reduce the WEP hit... *No way.

JohnP
Well, I understood how you could end up with such a small SS check.
It's scary to think that with my almost complete lack of foresight, I might
have been in the same position. As it is, I will draw pretty close to the
Max. (at 62) and will need every penny.

JG
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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE
Old 05-25-2005, 09:51 PM   #45
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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnP
In honor of receiving my very first SS check today (all $227/mo of it, a victim of the dreaded WEP clause) I thought I'd post my estimate of expenses for a retired couple with a 19 year old living with them.*

To do this estimate, I took our quicken expenses for the past year and deducted house & car payments, investment payments,* etc to get to a basic living expenses spreadsheet.* The bottom line is that we spend about $3,800/month for basic living without factoring in state and federal taxes.* The $3,800/month does not include a factor for replacing appliances, etc but does includes property taxes, family health care, and LTC ins for us.
That's more like the budget I was speaking of. About $46K a year without house and car payments but including health care.
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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE
Old 05-27-2005, 07:00 PM   #46
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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE

Quote:
Originally Posted by retire@40
That's more like the budget I was speaking of.* About $46K a year without house and car payments but including health care.
Hmmm. I'm in a pretty high cost area (NYC area) and am managing about $34,000 for 2, plus 2 dogs, including health care and taxes, paid off house and cars.

I could use more and I may, but this is the second year of ER. Not scrimpting very much, but at 44 and 45, I want to be cautious; we've got a long way to go.
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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE
Old 05-27-2005, 10:23 PM   #47
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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE

Pretty dang close to us, subbing the 1200 in expenses for the baby, plus we have one extra dog and three cats.
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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE
Old 06-25-2005, 08:25 AM   #48
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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE

Here is my monthly budget and I would appreciate any thoughts on what I missing. My girlfriend pays for her purchases so I did not include them in my budget. I copied Notth's misc list and took out some items.

I believe this accurately shows how much I need per month plus some for taxes year end.

So this is a yearly 59400 + 11,000 taxes(est) + ? gifts = over $70,000


Home
Payment 2750.00
Maintenance 0.00
Repair 0.00
Insurance 0.00
Furnishings 100.00
Cleaning 30.00
Utilities 40.00
Security 0.00
Yard 0.00
Garbage 0.00
Furniture Rental 170.00
Taxes
Federal Income (TBD)
State Income (TBD)
Property 0.00
Sales
Excise
Health
Medical 330.00
Dental (Incl)
Life 0.00
Perscriptions 0.00
Drugstore 10.00
Exercize 0.00
Misc
Entertainment
Cable TV 0.00
Internet 40.00
Phone 50.00
Photos 0.00
Hobbies 15.00
Magazines 10.00
Newspaper 0.00
Travel
Flight Cost 200.00
Rental Car 80.00
Hotels 200.00
Food 60.00
Tips 20.00
Incidentals 15.00
Misc 10.00
Interest
Mortgage 0.00
Credit Card 0.00
Auto Loan 0.00
Other 0.00
Insurance
Homeowner 0.00
Life 0.00
Liability 0.00
Auto 0.00
Medical above
Dental above
Other
Furnishings
Furniture Rental above
Furniture Purchases 50.00
Appliances 0.00
Repair 0.00
Automobiles
Payment 0.00
Fuel 0.00
Repair 0.00
Depreciation 0.00
Food
Groceries 400.00
Dining Out 100.00
Storage Bags 10.00
Misc 10.00
Clothing
Shirts 50.00
Pants 50.00
Coats 0.00
Shoes 25.00
Undies 10.00
Suits 0.00
Personal
Shaving 5.00
Shampoo 5.00
Haircuts 25.00
Toiletries 10.00
Misc 10.00
Gifts
Presents (TBD)
Charity 0.00
Pets
Food 0.00
Veterinary 0.00
Grooming 0.00
Savings
IRA 0.00
Misc 0.00
Other
Banking Fees 0.00
ATM Fees 0.00
Legal 0.00
Tax Prep 50.00
Accounting 0.00
Emergency Fund 0.00

Totals 4950.00

Misc includes

TP
Kleenex
Bandaids
Rubbing alcohol
Hydrogen peroxide
Deodorant
Wash cloths
Towels
Drinking water
Books, music
Laundry det
Cleaners
Paper towels
Foil
Plastic wrap
Small baggies
Big baggies
Dish soap
Dishwasher detergent
Garbage bags
Stamps
Batteries


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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE
Old 06-25-2005, 09:00 AM   #49
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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE

We are Er'd as follows, some items are anticipated, as we do not actually have some of the expenses yet. It is not as granular as some but you should get the idea:

Monthly Averages, Ages 51 & 47 resp. (Thinking about NOT buying a home until the bubble bursts)

Rent: $700 North East Florida
Car Running Costs: $200 (License, Insurance etc)
Gasoline: $400 (Touring and looking around)
Food & Drink: $500
Utilities: $150 (Most are included in Rent)
Health: $150 (Supplimental) This will go up.
Misc.: $350 (Guess)
Renter's Insurance: $50

That works out about $3000 We allocate $3500 ($500 for incidentals) so some months we save. Our income from our Nestegg is about $5k monthly (Totally Fixed Income) We are going to allocate $300k of the nest egg for a new home later when the prices go down. Why buy now? It is cheaper to rent a resort style apartment right now. This way we can spend 6 months living in different places reviewing th area(s). There is nothing like living in a community for a while, to help decide if it is right for you. Even a private home rents or condo for under $800pm.

SWR
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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE
Old 06-25-2005, 09:57 AM   #50
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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldAgePensioner
Here is my monthly budget and I would appreciate any thoughts on what I missing.
OAP, I don't see a listing for "kitchen sink", but otherwise it looks like a pretty comprehensive list...



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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE
Old 06-25-2005, 10:09 AM   #51
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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE

REW, the format sure came out different that what I sent. You remined me I forgot to put in for spare house keys.

Shok,
Very good point about the rent.

For the $600,000 condo that I'm renting for 2750, the owner pays:

2600 mortgage (after huge down payment)
650 tax (7900/12)
700 condo fee

3950 total

I looked at buying when I first got here and the $1,600 mortgage was just barely higher the the $1,300 tax/fee.
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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE
Old 06-25-2005, 10:48 AM   #52
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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE

Next year will be my first full ER year with no more income coming from my former employer.
I have a pretty good multiple sheet excel file forcasting my budgets for the next 40 years. I have a decent amount of fat in my budget with a inflation rate of 4.8% for general expenses and 11% for medical expenses.
My personality requires that I track all my expenses and anticipated taxes. If that becomes unnecessary and a burden, I'll stop after several years.

I am single and my forcasted 2006 average monthly budget will be $3800 plus income tax, which breaks down as follows,

Food 270
Groceries
Eating out

Personal 400 (clothing, gifts, charity, health club, misc. and emergency)

Utilities 200
Electricity
Gas Cooking
Phone
Cellular Phone
Internet Access
Cable TV

Living in private house 800
Home insurance
Security Alarm
Neighbordhood patrol
Real Estate Tax
Gas Heat
Water
Home maintenance

Transportation 180
Auto insurance
Inspection & Register
Gas
Subway
Bicycle Usage Credit
Miscellaneous

Medical 750
Health Insurance
Long term care insurance
Medicine
Dental
Medical bills

T & E 1,200

Since I plan to do a fair amount of travelling some of above expense will get reduced like transportation, food, etc. as these will be coming out of the T & E budget.

Should be an interesting experience since I have been extra frugal most of my life (shades of unclemick). I will do my best to counter my frugal life style and use up the quality of life portion of my budget.
The unpleasant burdens of life. Time will tell.
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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE
Old 06-25-2005, 11:23 AM   #53
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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha
This is a tough question depending on individual circumstances, but I do think rules of thumb, like 70% of pre-retirement income, are next to useless.* I have seen ranges here from $12,000 to $100,000 plus a year.

It is helpful to look at your specific circumstances, like:
Hey JC,

I think Martha got it right-it's subjective. One ER needs 100k; another needs less (maybe much less...)

For me, $1,000 per month, on a 12 month rolling budget.

I really don't try to save, it's just so cheap to live in Thailand* .

Lance* *
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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE
Old 06-27-2005, 09:22 PM   #54
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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmycarter


I am curious to get some answers as to how much money one needs in retirement.
Ka Ching! This question launched the Certified Financial Planning industry. Super advice above. Just more proof that you can figure it out for yourself!

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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE
Old 06-27-2005, 11:24 PM   #55
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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE

Martha and Co are right, it really is subjective with no right answer. Depends upon your motivation to retire at all costs and do so at a "survival only" budget or whether greater aspirations prevail.

Reading a lot of the previous posts, I think a few people have retired on a smaller pile than I have now (at 35), and if it is to be believed, JG has retired on a nest egg of not much more than my household income this year. It is all a question of aspiration, motivation and your personal assessment of quality of life issues.

Just my humble view.
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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE
Old 06-28-2005, 12:06 AM   #56
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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE

Like Lancelot my Thailand living budget is in the $1000-$1500/mth range. A bit higher when travelling or visiting Scandinavien home country. Cheers!
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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE
Old 06-28-2005, 05:10 AM   #57
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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE

As posted before, our 25K (no real budgeting) could be reduced easily.
Low cost of living area. Lots of scrounging and dumpster diving.
No debt (except for no-brainer short term investment)
Budget traveling, etc. Getting loose as I get older and with SS on the horizon, but can always cut back a lot further if we need to.

Slightly off topic. Been doing a lot of driving and on Sunday I
was listening to Bob Brinker (boredom?). He actually said 3
things I agreed with. He expressed concern about whether
Greenspan knows when to stop raising rates, doubting if
he really knows (I think he is just guessing like us). He opines
there is no national RE "bubble", just local bubbles, and finally
he called the recent supreme court decision on eminent domain
(taking of private property) "just dreadful" about 5 times.
I think it is way beyond "dreadful' but then I expect this sort of
thing (rampant big-brotherism/erosion of private property
rights) to accelerate. When it comes to "the Supremes",
I'd prefer Diana Ross making these decisions. At least we might
get some good music along with the leftist nonsense. BTW,
our friend Bob also pointed out that 2 justices who voted with the majority were Bush and Reagan appointees, which confirms my suspicion that we need bedrock constitutional conservatives
on the court (like Thomas and Scalia). Bush II doesn't have the cojones and no one else will either. I hope after I am gone
(from the earth or just this forum) you youngsters will recall
"Old John" predicted this stuff. I know a lot of you welcome
"womb to tomb" governmental intervention. You won't like it too
much when the camel's nose is under your particular tent.

JG
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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE
Old 06-28-2005, 05:21 AM   #58
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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE

Quote:
Originally Posted by Honkie
Martha and Co are right, it really is subjective with no right answer. Depends upon your motivation to retire at all costs and do so at a "survival only" budget or whether greater aspirations prevail.

Reading a lot of the previous posts, I think a few people have retired on a smaller pile than I have now (at 35), and if it is to be believed, JG has retired on a nest egg of not much more than my household income this year. It is all a question of aspiration, motivation and your personal assessment of quality of life issues.

Just my humble view.
Hi Honkie. Not honkin' my own horn, just posting my thoughts, views,
experiences, results, etc. I enjoy it. If it helps or amuses, that's nice.
An aside, and I know that I repeat here. My "pile" was not even considered
back in 1993 when I up and quit. I figured to work PT indefinitely and
anyway (being extremely confident) I figured I would work it out
"on the fly". Worked out fine for me. I have no quarrel with those
who feel they need a couple mil in the bank. They don't, but it depends a
lot on how bad you want it. I wanted it real bad and whatever I want
real bad I get. My ex. opined that "Whatever you want, you just go get it!"
True! You only go around once.

JG
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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE
Old 06-28-2005, 07:45 AM   #59
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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE

JG - I agree that it is down to the individual and his motivation and guts - I didn't mean to offend by comparison (though I don't think you would take offence even if I did! You seem that sort of guy!)

Re-reading my post I wrote "..if it is to be believed..." - that's not to infer scepticism at the voracity of your posts, but imply kudos that you have the character to "just do it". With a young daughter, another on the way soon and education, health care and college costs a mere dot on the horizon, I need a little more padding in my pile to take the foot of the gas.
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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE
Old 06-28-2005, 08:46 AM   #60
 
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Re: How much to do need to live off of in RE

Quote:
I think it is way beyond "dreadful' but then I expect this sort of
thing (rampant big-brotherism/erosion of private property
rights) to accelerate. When it comes to "the Supremes",
I'd prefer Diana Ross making these decisions. At least we might
John,

The folks that are taking this property is big business. They are currently buying their way into government decisions. When the government is eliminated, the corporations will just eliminate the middleman. They'll just take your property!
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