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Re: Imagine: Can lots of people ERing make things better for everybody?
Old 07-02-2005, 02:12 PM   #41
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Re: Imagine: Can lots of people ERing make things better for everybody?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords

Let's not feed the troll behavior, folks... and, John, you're (usually) better than this.
Yeah, that was not my finest hour. Habitat for Humanity is an especially
revolting concept to me, and not because the libs love it. I have thought about it
carefully and see all kinds of flaws (of course this comes from an extreme right wing/Ayn Randian/Anne Coulter point of reference). Anyway, I won't bore you good folks with an essay. I don't like the program. Nuff said!

JG
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Re: Imagine: Can lots of people ERing make things better for everybody?
Old 07-02-2005, 02:32 PM   #42
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Re: Imagine: Can lots of people ERing make things better for everybody?

Quote:
Originally Posted by maddythebeagle
"Habitat for Humanity" is leftist? Maybe, my sister volunteered in a urban area and the recipient acted like the house wasnt big enough. The idea is to get the recipient to work on the house but the person didnt have much for skills and was asked to help clean up and balked at it. It is just another case of people thinking they are entitled. *I think a lot of young middle class live in apartments waiting to save enough for a down payment. Simply giving people a fish and not teaching them to fish wont get you anywhere. *
Good post! I agree with a lot of this, esp. the "teach them to fish"
metaphor. In my view the thinking involved (Habitat for Humanity)
is more pervasive
than most folks can see. Like I said, strictly a "feel good" program
for liberals. Nothing more.

JG
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Re: Imagine: Can lots of people ERing make things better for everybody?
Old 07-02-2005, 02:42 PM   #43
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Re: Imagine: Can lots of people ERing make things better for everybody?

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Originally Posted by Eagle43
OH come on, JG, WHY?* Even the recipients have to put in "sweat equity."* As a good conservative, you can't knock that.* And, as far as I know, the government doesn't fund it, with possible exception of some tax deductions.* If we had more stuff like this, ala the Amish, maybe we'd be a better country.* If it's privately funded, done by volunteers, with recipients pitching in, what's not to like?* And if it makes the volunteers feel good, maybe they'll keep volunteering? Also, I'm sure that somewhere it annoys labor union* types.* Looks like win/win to me.
Well, the best thing that can be said is they are not using our money
(yet). I expect this to change at some point. Look, I could write an essay on this which would read like a rant. You folks get enough rants from
me already. I will just make one small point. The number of people
being helped here is so small as to be completely insignificant. Plus, the houses I have
seen built are all nicer than what I live in. There are millions in this world
without food or shelter, never mind a pot to pee in. If they could take
what they put into each 3 BR/2 bath ranch, they maybe could build
10 cottages in the 3rd world. Who needs it more? Some welfare
mom here in the States, or someone dying in Uganda? Damn, I said
no rant and did one anyway. Sorry.

JG
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Re: Imagine: Can lots of people ERing make things better for everybody?
Old 07-02-2005, 04:26 PM   #44
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Re: Imagine: Can lots of people ERing make things better for everybody?

Can the people who get a Habitat house actually afford to operate it? I have a Brother In Law who volunteers for Habitat, for him itís an excuse to get out of the house and feel good about himself. I am not opposed to the program, but if you cannot afford to buy a house I doubt if you can afford to stay in one.
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Re: Imagine: Can lots of people ERing make things better for everybody?
Old 07-02-2005, 05:47 PM   #45
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Re: Imagine: Can lots of people ERing make things better for everybody?

ESR Bob, I'll get the book when it comes out and all my read books go to the library. Looking forward to it. Does this mean you are EFR Bob now that you finished the book?

I hate to participate in this particular hijack, but I want to comment a bit on two habitat for humanity programs I have worked with in Minnesota and Wisconsin. To potentially get a house, you have to volunteer a significant number of hours on habitat projects. The homes they do around here are either rehabs or small, two bedroom, one bath homes. Nothing the least bit fancy. The purchase price is based on cost and financed without interest and with a low down payment. Interest does come due if the home is sold within a certain period of time. The home is appraised and if it is sold within a certain period of time, the owners have to pay the entire appraised value. The people getting the homes tend to have stable low paying jobs where they can't earn enough to get a down payment. The buyers have to earn enough to service the debt and pay their other expenses.

No abuse in the programs I have participated in.
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Re: Imagine: Can lots of people ERing make things better for everybody?
Old 07-02-2005, 07:12 PM   #46
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Re: Imagine: Can lots of people ERing make things better for everybody?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Martha
ESR Bob, I'll get the book when it comes out and all my read books go to the library.* Looking forward to it.* Does this mean you are EFR Bob now that you finished the book?

I hate to participate in this particular hijack, but I want to comment a bit on two habitat for humanity programs I have worked with in Minnesota and Wisconsin.* To potentially get a house, you have to volunteer a significant number of hours on habitat projects.* The homes they do around here are either rehabs or small, two bedroom, one bath homes.* Nothing the least bit fancy.* The purchase price is based on cost and financed without interest and with a low down payment.* Interest does come due if the home is sold within a certain period of time. The home is appraised and if it is sold within a certain period of time, the owners have to pay the entire appraised value.* *The people getting the homes tend to have stable low paying jobs where they can't earn enough to get a down payment.* The buyers have to earn enough to service the debt and pay their other expenses.

No abuse in the programs I have participated in.*
To be clear, I never suspected or implied any abuse. I just think the
concept is misguided at best. Anyway, as long as it's not my money being
spent I suppose I should just move on. I never wanted to tell others how to spend their money or time, as long as what they are doing doesn't mess
up my life.

JG
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Re: Imagine: Can lots of people ERing make things better for everybody?
Old 07-02-2005, 07:19 PM   #47
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Re: Imagine: Can lots of people ERing make things better for everybody?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MRGALT2U
Well, the best thing that can be said is they are not using our money
(yet).* I expect this to change at some point.* Look, I could write an essay on this which would read like a rant.* You folks get enough rants from
me already.* I will just make one small point.* The number of people
being helped here is so small as to be completely insignificant.* Plus, the houses I have
seen built are all nicer than what I live in.* There are millions in this world
without food or shelter, never mind a pot to pee in.* If they could take
what they put into each 3 BR/2 bath ranch, they maybe could build
10 cottages in the 3rd world.* Who needs it more?* Some welfare
mom here in the States, or someone dying in Uganda?* Damn, I said
no rant and did one anyway.* Sorry. *JG
Well, John, the program doesn't just appeal to liberals. *I've been thinking of volunteering with them for some months now (not that I've found it enough of a priority to make the time) and I looked forward to a reasoned critique of the programs flaws and perhaps even alternatives or a better program. *You're not exactly inspiring me to question Habitat's motives.

Are you saying that too much Habitat money is spent helping too few? *Considering the number of homes built with donated materials & labor, I bet they're America's cheapest builder. *Or is there some better place to put the money? *Interesting that you'd rather build homes in 3rd world countries than right here in your own country, especially considering that, without Habitat, your fellow citizens might require welfare or Medicaid to put together their rent payments. *"Your tax dollars at work."

Or are you jealous because they're living in a nicer home than you are? *Can't you swing a hammer to make your place a bit better, just as they did for 500 hours?

I think our federal govt sends quite enough money to Uganda. *I like the idea of helping non-taxpayers here at home so that we help create more taxpayers to send even more money to Uganda.

As you say: *damn. *
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Re: Imagine: Can lots of people ERing make things better for everybody?
Old 07-02-2005, 07:33 PM   #48
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Re: Imagine: Can lots of people ERing make things better for everybody?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
Well, John, the program doesn't just appeal to liberals. *I've been thinking of volunteering with them for some months now (not that I've found it enough of a priority to make the time) and I looked forward to a reasoned critique of the programs flaws and perhaps even alternatives or a better program. *You're not exactly inspiring me to question Habitat's motives.

Are you saying that too much Habitat money is spent helping too few? *Considering the number of homes built with donated materials & labor, I bet they're America's cheapest builder. *Or is there some better place to put the money? *Interesting that you'd rather build homes in 3rd world countries than right here in your own country, especially considering that, without Habitat, your fellow citizens might require welfare or Medicaid to put together their rent payments. *"Your tax dollars at work."

Or are you jealous because they're living in a nicer home than you are? *Can't you swing a hammer to make your place a bit better, just as they did for 500 hours?

I think our federal govt sends quite enough money to Uganda. *I like the idea of helping non-taxpayers here at home so that we help create more taxpayers to send even more money to Uganda.

As you say: *damn. *
This is absolutely my last word on this. I am not "jealous". I can not "swing a hammer" and don't want to. I think HFH is a silly
lib promoted program, but since it doesn't effect me directly I have
bigger fish to fry. All of you who enjoy participating in HFH, I am
happy for you ...........truly.........no matter what your reasons for being
involved.

JG
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Re: Imagine: Can lots of people ERing make things better for everybody?
Old 07-02-2005, 07:36 PM   #49
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Re: Imagine: Can lots of people ERing make things better for everybody?

Just nice people doing nice things for each other John. Hope thats not too alien a thought...
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Re: Imagine: Can lots of people ERing make things better for everybody?
Old 07-02-2005, 07:45 PM   #50
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Re: Imagine: Can lots of people ERing make things better for everybody?

Habitat and the church affiliated clones are great. People should help each other.
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Re: Imagine: Can lots of people ERing make things better for everybody?
Old 07-02-2005, 07:47 PM   #51
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Re: Imagine: Can lots of people ERing make things better for everybody?

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Originally Posted by Michael
* People should help each other.
Agree!
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