Inexpensive Retirement in Southeast Asia

[skyvue]

Pete44 & KevinK,
Would an average looking 50 year old nice American man, with roughtly $4,000 per month income to spend, be considered a "catch" to the local women? Would they be agressively pursuing you or does it work like the States where the man would still have to approach the young ladies, ask her out, etc....?

Are the pubs and bars you attend, mostly just expat with a few locals or the other way around?

The thing I think I would miss the most is American sports. My primary hobby is watching the NBA, NFL, Colleg football, etc....on the tv at home or in the sports bars. Also would likely miss my Buffalo Wings! LOL

[kevink]

Hi skyvue,

I'll let Pete answer for Thailand.

In the gringo enclaves in Mexico at 50 you're a good 15+ years younger than the expat average (a friend in Ajijic refers to the most popular Karaoke bar there as "the place where the 80 year olds go to hit on the 70 year olds").

If by local you mean Mexican, in the Chapala area you'd probably find yourself going into Guadalajara (40 minutes away) to find a lively bar with a younger crowd, and as should be needless to say you shouldn't bother without having fluent Spanish. Financially speaking you'd be a "catch" for sure, but just remember that what you catch in this kind of society is not just the lovely lady but her entire family.

At Lake Chapala and in San Miguel de Allende at bars and restaurants you'll see a mixture of gringos and well-to-do Mexicans, with a big surge in the Mexican population on weekends and holidays. There's easy access to U.S. and Canadian cable and satellite sports programming and yes, hot wings, Domino's, Wal Mart and all the rest in these communities.

Hope this helps.

[Sandhog]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyvue Pete44 & KevinK, Would an average looking 50 year old nice American man, with roughtly $4,000 per month income to spend, be considered a "catch" to the local women? Would they be agressively pursuing you or does it work like the States where the man would still have to approach the young ladies, ask her out, etc....? Are the pubs and bars you attend, mostly just expat with a few locals or the other way around? The thing I think I would miss the most is American sports. My primary hobby is watching the NBA, NFL, Colleg football, etc....on the tv at home or in the sports bars. Also would likely miss my Buffalo Wings! LOL

You'll be a catch in any country where average monthly salary is about $500.00/month. That include most of southeast Asia and South America. My friend retired in Thailand, Pattaya two years ago and when I visited him, bar girls in their early 20's called him handsome man, sexy man, darling.... And I tell you when he was in the states, a woman in her late 60's won't date him. He was in his late 50's. I don't know what he gets for teacher's pension but he only spends half of his money and still able to live like a king according to him in $600/month water view condo. That's at 34 baht to $1 exchange rate. It should be slightly more since dollar has been continually declining against other currencies.

I wished that I had a pension so I could retire in Thai like my friend where young girls call me handsome man. But I like South America lot better. I don't like Thai food unless it's in NY. Somehow, in Thailand, Thai food don't taste the same as in NY. But Mexican food, I like in Mexico much better. Go figured.

[mh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevink Hi skyvue, I'll let Pete answer for Thailand. In the gringo enclaves in Mexico at 50 you're a good 15+ years younger than the expat average (a friend in Ajijic refers to the most popular Karaoke bar there as "the place where the 80 year olds go to hit on the 70 year olds"). If by local you mean Mexican, in the Chapala area you'd probably find yourself going into Guadalajara (40 minutes away) to find a lively bar with a younger crowd, and as should be needless to say you shouldn't bother without having fluent Spanish. Financially speaking you'd be a "catch" for sure, but just remember that what you catch in this kind of society is not just the lovely lady but her entire family. At Lake Chapala and in San Miguel de Allende at bars and restaurants you'll see a mixture of gringos and well-to-do Mexicans, with a big surge in the Mexican population on weekends and holidays. There's easy access to U.S. and Canadian cable and satellite sports programming and yes, hot wings, Domino's, Wal Mart and all the rest in these communities. Hope this helps.

Catch a few chivas Guadalajara games and you may be a soccer convert
it's pretty impressive event.

[ItDontMeanAThing]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nun I agree that some people make the transition well, but even amongst those that stay abroad there is often a feeling of "us and them" that prevents the expat from integrating into the local society and having a really fulfilling retirement. Getting involved with the local community makes life so much richer,

I agree the more involved one is in the culture and community the better life is. I expect expats, American or otherwise, differ greatly by where they live and why they chose that town and country. In my limited experience I've met those who have integrated and those who don't know a word of the local language because 99% of their contact with the locals is with service workers who speak English.

Also met many in the vast middle ground between these opposites. The middle ground type I've met most often are actively learning about the culture. They want to be seen by the locals as respectful of the people and it's culture. They want to be able to predict how their interactions will play out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nun I wonder how many US expats support their local Mexican soccer team.

I wonder how many expats who like soccer support their local team. Its hard for an old sports fan to adopt a new sport. When traveling in the Dominican Republic I saw tourists and expats sitting on blankets, enjoying a picnic dinner as the day cools down toward dusk while watching the neighborhood pickup baseball game.

[Pete44]

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyvue Pete44 & KevinK, Would an average looking 50 year old nice American man, with roughtly $4,000 per month income to spend, be considered a "catch" to the local women? Would they be agressively pursuing you or does it work like the States where the man would still have to approach the young ladies, ask her out, etc....? Are the pubs and bars you attend, mostly just expat with a few locals or the other way around? The thing I think I would miss the most is American sports. My primary hobby is watching the NBA, NFL, Colleg football, etc....on the tv at home or in the sports bars. Also would likely miss my Buffalo Wings! LOL

Sitting around a big table last night in the crowded Aussi Bar with my friends and their girls. The guys are all in their 50's. It was an unusual night because all the girlfriends were there. Looking around, I said to my buddy sitting next to me, "these girls are all beautiful." Average age, late 20's, slim, long black hair, model faces, really amazing.

You ask a girl out here by asking her, How much?"

There are many ways to meet woman here other than bars. Most of the woman around here are in "the game" one way or another. They don't call this the "Land of Smiles" for nothing.

Sex is easy, relationships are hard. The girls want to be taken care of and what they want to do is take care of their family. They want the security of a husband and they want children. Children because that will be their security in old age.

The two biggest problems here for expats are alcoholism and woman. The Aussis and Brits drink like fish and that's usually who I'm around. Almost daily I hear horror stories of woman taking guys to the cleaners. One day you find yourself out of the house, that's she owns because it's in her name, the car that was in her name sold and the bank account cleaned out. Or maybe the bar you bought for her is out of business because it only takes a month for a Thai to run a profitable business into the ground. Or maybe someone comes to the door looking to collect a million baht gambling debt. Lots of fun ways to lose it here.

My mantra is "Sexual compatibility is not love." I hear "She's different," a lot. Woman here have a different agenda than we do, that's for sure. It is very easy to forget that.

Yes at $4000 a month you would be a catch. That's 120,000 baht. I live well with a beautiful girl at 70k. Finding a girl isn't tough. The girls think we're all rich. You're not much different than any other "catch". Some of the more beautiful girls want more money. Maybe you could overpay some beautiful girl, build home for her Mama, take care of brother, buy new water buffalo, lots of ways to spend that extra baht.

All the American sports are available on either the TV or online. I get Directv "the ticket" (love the redzone channel) for the same price as in the US ($300?), online. It's available only outside the US. The little problem is the games start at 1 AM Monday. You can watch game replays in the morning. Hook the computer to the big TV screen with HDMI and you're in business. Sleep in the next day. Stayed up all night many times watching football. Cricket seems to be on the TV here 24/7. Horrible game. I think you'd find other interests here than watching sports.

There are 60 bars in my little town, all for tourists and expats. 10 miles away there are 300-500 bars in Patong, the big tourist town.

Fear not...buffalo wings are on the menu.

[lovinglife1]

Hello Pete. What city are you living in if i may ask? Phuket is a lovely place.

[Ozziedreamer]

Hello Pete44, ItDontMeanAThing and others that have made the early retirement move to Thailand

Have been a lurker for some time now but this thread really motivated me to post. Really enjoyed reading Pete's initial post and have also read the blog on living in Hua Hin - very enjoyable.

So a bit about myself. Have been working for the past 20 years, and went to Thailand in 2009 for the first time. A divorce after being married for 10 years did set me back quite a bit financially (as most divorces do in the Western world for men), but I am focussed on the present financial rebuild.

I guess you could say that getting sick of working for the man (and the banks) as well as taking my trip to Thailand has really changed my outlook on life and has got me thinking most days about an early retirement to Thailand.

Am almost 42 and would like to pull the trigger at 50, sell my house and move to LOS. At 50 would be eligible for the Thai retirement visa.

I expect at 50 I would have around $800k AUS in today's dollars after selling the house (this equates to about $800k US). At 60 I would end up with another $400k AUS from what we call superannuation (which I think you guys from the US call 401k I think). An inheritance of around $300k in todays dollars will also come my way some time in the next 25 years.

A extra sweetener about retiring to LOS is that if I sell up, I can call myself a non resident for tax purposes, meaning I only pay 10% tax (rather than around 25 to 30% tax). Assuming $800k cash at 5% interest equals $40k pa, minus $4k tax = $36k pa to spend (=$3k per month or 90k baht per month).

So some questions for you folk already living the dream.

1. Does this look like a reasonable plan? It needs to be bullet proof as I will never want to come back and work again.
2. Do you think that even with the likely continual improvement in living standards (and increased cost of living) over in LOS, I will still have enough in terms of the initial amount in 8 years time?
3. I think Phuket is looking the best bet for me. I am just after a laid back lifestyle, a bit of going out, but generally just relaxing. I dont want to live in a concrete jungle like Bangkok - would like a bit of nature close by, some greenery and either sea or mountains. A TGF wont hurt, but am aware of the pitfalls. Which of the three would be best with my budget and wants: Phuket, Pattaya or Chang Mai

[Nemo2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete44 Almost daily I hear horror stories of woman taking guys to the cleaners. One day you find yourself out of the house, that's she owns because it's in her name, the car that was in her name sold and the bank account cleaned out.

A guy on our Saudi project (thought he) was 'engaged' to a Thai girl....they were to be married, etc, and he fronted the money to buy a farm for her parents.
The minute the check cleared, she disappeared.......the only person who was surprised was him.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete44 Most of the woman around here are in "the game" one way or another.

I recall sitting in our Riyadh singles cafeteria listening to a fellow who had just come back from R&R in Thailand talking to another guy who'd been there numerous times.
The newbie was saying that he'd met this girl....."She wasn't a hooker" he said "She works at the Tourist Agency"......the other guy replied "They're all hookers......some work out of bars, some work out of shops, some work behind the front desks of hotels......the end result is all the same, it's just the beat that differs".

[Gone4Good]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemo2 The newbie was saying that he'd met this girl....."She wasn't a hooker" he said "She works at the Tourist Agency"......the other guy replied "They're all hookers......some work out of bars, some work out of shops, some work behind the front desks of hotels......the end result is all the same, it's just the beat that differs".

Sad.

[Pete44]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ozziedreamer 1. Does this look like a reasonable plan? It needs to be bullet proof as I will never want to come back and work again. 2. Do you think that even with the likely continual improvement in living standards (and increased cost of living) over in LOS, I will still have enough in terms of the initial amount in 8 years time? 3. I think Phuket is looking the best bet for me. I am just after a laid back lifestyle, a bit of going out, but generally just relaxing. I dont want to live in a concrete jungle like Bangkok - would like a bit of nature close by, some greenery and either sea or mountains. A TGF wont hurt, but am aware of the pitfalls. Which of the three would be best with my budget and wants: Phuket, Pattaya or Chang Mai

A little about Visas here in Thailand. Thailand requires that you leave the country every ninety days. If you leave the country for any reason the 90 day clock starts again. There is a whole industry that revolves around quick outside the country visa runs. At 50 you can get a retirement visa and you only have to report in at the immigration every 90 days. If you leave the country the 90 day clock starts again. On a retirement visa, you can't get a work permit. Some friends who have businesses here don't get retirement visas for that reason.

Ozziedreamer you have plenty of money, a lot more than me. You'll live very well here on 90K baht a month. The oz dollar has taken a dive in the past, the baht seems to be getting stronger. No plan is bulletproof but the kind of money you're talking about has a big cushion at this point. You'll be able to do a considerable amount of traveling, probably own a car.

I like the ocean here in Phuket. There are many world class beaches. Pattaya is anything but a world class beach. A couple of hours from Bangkok, I was there once for a couple of days and couldn't wait to leave. Lot's of people like it. They can have it. Chang Mai is at the other end of Thailand from Phuket. No beaches but a lot of nice scenic areas around there. It's a favorite of the retirement community. Rent a house there for 12k, same house here 25K. Phuket is the most expensive place in Thailand. CM is also overcast for a couple of months a year because they burn rice fields.

I live in Kamala Beach. Kata, Karon, Nai Harn are all great places to live. Long term rentals for a nice condo with a pool by the beach should be under $800/mo. No reason to buy anything. Years of inventory of homes and they continue to build.

8 years from now? I can't even keep track of what day of the week it is. Yes life is improving for the Thais but....how to put this diplomatically. Not much thought goes into future thinking here. The "Buddha will provide" thinking will always get in the Thais way. It's always short term with poor planning. The corruption is not getting better. I think they'll continue to screw themselves for the foreseeable future.

Plan on vacationing here for the next few years and check out these places for yourself. You don't have to decide but you should start to get a feeling. And don't forget about the Philippines. Check out the areas around Cebu. The dollar goes a long way there.

[Pete44]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemo2 The newbie was saying that he'd met this girl....."She wasn't a hooker" he said "She works at the Tourist Agency"......the other guy replied "They're all hookers......some work out of bars, some work out of shops, some work behind the front desks of hotels......the end result is all the same, it's just the beat that differs".

Calling everyone a hooker isn't right. Patong or Pattaya is not Thailand. Most Thais don't have any idea what goes on there. They are overwhelmingly a conservative and modest people.

[ItDontMeanAThing]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete44 Calling everyone a hooker isn't right. Patong or Pattaya is not Thailand. Most Thais don't have any idea what goes on there. They are overwhelmingly a conservative and modest people.

About that conservative nature. I've talked with foreigners w*rking here who confirmed what I've read. Few Thais who aren't poor will have anything to do with you on a personal basis if you're here for the bar girls. One ESL teacher has been in country 10 years, is fluent in Thai and has two kids with his Thai wife. Most of his business comes from private tutoring of kids who's parents expect will go to college. He says he NEVER goes into the tiny bar district here for any reason because being spotted could destroy his well earned reputation and thus his business.

[Nemo2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete44 Calling everyone a hooker isn't right. Patong or Pattaya is not Thailand. Most Thais don't have any idea what goes on there. They are overwhelmingly a conservative and modest people.

I'm presuming that, when the one guy said 'all', he was referring to the women that single men on R&R were likely to encounter.

Me, I've never been there....I prefer to be out in the bush in Africa.

[Nemo2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete44 Calling everyone a hooker isn't right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pete44 Most of the woman around here are in "the game" one way or another.

Hmmm.

[Sandhog]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemo2 "They're all hookers

Me think that goes for all the girls no matter what country they are in especially from bitter a divorced man like myself.

[Ozziedreamer]

Thanks for the info Pete44, some good stuff there.

[Nords]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemo2 I'm presuming that, when the one guy said 'all', he was referring to the women that single men on R&R were likely to encounter.

I think he's also assuming that the women they encounter... are actually female.

[Pete44]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nords I think he's also assuming that the women they encounter... are actually female.

Yes!!! The most beautiful women in Thailand...aren't.

Sex change operations are cheap here.

A few tells for newbies (I hate surprises):
1. Deep voice or tall- too easy
2. Big feet, hands
3. Something is not right when you look at them. This can be subtle and difficult when under the influence. La la la lola.
4. Adams Apple
5. Razor stubble-especially painful when combined with a deadly hangover the next morning

Here is the almost foolproof way to tell. When a woman holds out her arm palm up, she can twist her palm sometimes another 45 degrees from parallel to the ground. A man can't do that. When I hold my arm out that's all I can turn my palm. Woman's arms are different.

There are commonly lady-boys (kayote) working in bars here. Most will tell you if asked. They are very popular in some circles.

My girlfriend is beautiful, a centimeter taller than me (5'9"), feet almost the size of mine. She did pass the arm rotation test with flying colors.

This thread may be straying away from the Early Retirement .org purpose.

Sorry

[kcowan]

Thanks for the tutorial Pete!