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Old 12-01-2007, 05:15 AM   #21
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I need and have all my life otherwise I would of been on a easy
sub-existing life style, maybe even with gov assistance.
I would rather be miserable at work than just getting by for
the last 20 years of my life. I have seen many expatriates on
the under 2K a month budgets. That is as good as it gets and deminishes gradually each year. Many of these types never had
savings their whole life so they have always just got by.
I guess for some living is budgetting every thing in life and quality is just one thing that was never important, then enjoy.
Hard turning back once in the 50's and the reason you don't mind
working a simple low paid job ( the ones you use to mock) is because you most likely become use to little quality, be it either life or work.
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Old 12-02-2007, 09:02 PM   #22
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unclemick
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Maybe you need more fiber in your diet? Unclemick! I'm sort of surprised here...

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The article gives me hope and an idea of alternitive lifestyles with a smaller nest egg. I plan to retire below the $1M "threshold" that some believe is required. I don't need much. =)


There are lots of ways to manage retirement -- and even if you decide you want to part time work or make money from your hobbies that doesn't mean you have 'failed' at retirement. Many ways to make some 'walk around money' hardly without trying.

Hold your dreams close, Sunshine!

Be well,
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Old 12-02-2007, 09:41 PM   #23
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Billy,

Would you be willing to share what percentage of your current income is derived from passive investments accumulated during working years and what percentage is derived from your current business endeavors?
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Old 12-03-2007, 07:44 AM   #24
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ER'ing on a commune sounds like even more work than living in a cubicle...

Word.
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Old 12-03-2007, 09:51 AM   #25
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The article gives me hope and an idea of alternitive lifestyles with a smaller nest egg. I plan to retire below the $1M "threshold" that some believe is required. I don't need much. =)
More power to you........ My plan is $2 million,just because I'll need some "mad money" and figure $2 million in 10 years is like $1 million today.........
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Old 12-03-2007, 11:11 AM   #26
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Billy....

It seems to me that you did not 'retire'... IIRC you have a book and a website... and write articles or something Does this not bring you income? If it does, then all you did was change professions... one that you like a lot more, but work none the less.

If you get 'paid' to do something, that is 'work'.
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Old 12-03-2007, 02:09 PM   #27
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Billy....

It seems to me that you did not 'retire'... IIRC you have a book and a website... and write articles or something Does this not bring you income? If it does, then all you did was change professions... one that you like a lot more, but work none the less.

If you get 'paid' to do something, that is 'work'.
I get that all the time. People see how much I love investing and writing and photography and ask why I don't do it for money. And I say that then I wouldn't be retired anymore. Just working differently.

Because I know so much about telephony, my neighbor says I should offer it as a service. Everyone seems to think that getting paid makes it legitimate...
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Old 12-03-2007, 02:45 PM   #28
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If you get 'paid' to do something, that is 'work'.
Hey, those CDs don't stamp & mail themselves for free, and the concept of early retirement isn't exactly likely to vault them to the top of the NYT best-seller lists. There are about as many authors enriching themselves from writing/publishing as there are millionaires carrying Screen Actors Guild cards.

I'm happy to help out neighbors with handyman repairs, but I charge most of them $25/hour so that (1) they're not too proud or shy to ask for help and (2) they don't abuse the value of my time/assistance.

I apply the same $25/hour standards to helping acquaintances with officer fitness reports/enlisted evaluations and civilian résumés. In those cases I'm actually worth $75/hour but I don't want to make it a full-time job.

I still give surfing lessons for free. No plans to change that.

BTW spouse and I donated several orders of magnitude more to charity this year than we brought in from the sweat of my brow...
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Old 12-03-2007, 05:09 PM   #29
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Nords...

yes, I agree that charging for your experience to only the ones you want is different.. I had no problem paying for my BILs expertise on construction as the total was way less than me doing it on my own...

My mom volunteered at the local geneology library for many many years... she loved it... but then it got to be to much like work because she could not take off when she wanted because it would be shut down as there were no others who helped... finally told them to get stuffed when they got huffy with her going to a Dr. appt...

And if you only write once in awhile... on your own schedule etc. etc... it is not 'work' either... I was just trying to get a feel for how much was being done...
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Old 12-03-2007, 05:56 PM   #30
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... I was just trying to get a feel for how much was being done...
Naughty person!
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Old 12-03-2007, 06:59 PM   #31
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ER is not a pure science. The idea is that you don't need to work to have the lifestyle you choose to have. When people ask me whether I am retired, I tell them no, I just don't work. If I was back in NYC and was asked to do 4 to 6 marketing research forums a month for $100 to $200 a pop, I would do em and would not consider my time spent as work. I would get to meet some nice people and get a "free lunch or dinner" to boot. Besides, my generosity would increase as I would consider this income, frivolous and extra play money.

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Old 12-03-2007, 08:27 PM   #32
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Hmm. I've worked in a restaurant. I've written articles for a web site.

The latter seems like a day on the beach in paradise holding a tropical drink compared to the former...
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Old 12-03-2007, 08:59 PM   #33
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Billy, Would you be willing to share what percentage of your current income is derived from passive investments accumulated during working years and what percentage is derived from your current business endeavors?
The short answer is 100% and 0%.

If you are asking if the proceeds from our popular book, The Adventurer’s Guide to Early Retirement, has effected our lifestyle choices and spending, the answer is no. Or if we are dependent on the book sales to continue our lifestyle, the answer is still no.

In the early days we sat at the pool daily (our ‘office’), and traveled the world for the15 years prior to writing the book and we continue to do so today.

The publishing of our book has given us the opportunity to meet some outstanding people and colorful characters whom we may not have met if we had not published it.

The opportunities it has offered us has opened our world and we have opened to the world as well. None of this would have taken place had we not gone public with our story and we have a richer life for it.

TexasProud

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Billy.... It seems to me that you did not 'retire'... IIRC you have a book and a website... and write articles or something Does this not bring you income? If it does, then all you did was change professions... one that you like a lot more, but work none the less. If you get 'paid' to do something, that is 'work'.
That is a legitimate point to be bringing up, but I think your labeling of getting paid to do something being automatically called ‘work’ is too narrow. At least for us.

We have preferred the description ‘Financially Independent’ over the label of being ‘Retired’. Retired is an older term that seems to conjure up images of sitting in a rocking chair doing nothing or eating bon-bons in front of the TV watching soaps. I didn’t know being Retired came with rules. That is what we wanted to leave behind when we left the standard working world.

In our book we have greatly detailed that doing volunteer work has been an integral part of our financially independent lifestyle. Managing our website, returning the massive amounts of correspondence that we receive from others who want to know if they, too, could retire, writing articles and doing the interviews that we do -- we consider all of that to be our volunteer time. It’s something we can do from anywhere in the world, and it is immensely satisfying.

It gives us great pleasure to be able to utilize our considerable combined talents in new and rewarding ways. It also allows us opportunities to learn new things and to challenge our comfort zones.

Billy does a good deal of computer trouble-shooting here in Thailand and back in the States and doesn’t charge anything for it. But if someone gives him free internet café time or bakes him some banana bread in exchange does it now become work?

Kcowan
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I get that all the time. People see how much I love investing and writing and photography and ask why I don't do it for money. And I say that then I wouldn't be retired anymore. Just working differently.
See, I think if you are financially independent you can do whatever the flip you please. Leave the rules and descriptions by others behind. Do what you want to do and as much as you want. You won’t get ‘fired’… You decide how you want to live your life.

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Because I know so much about telephony, my neighbor says I should offer it as a service. Everyone seems to think that getting paid makes it legitimate...
Again, that’s their description of something you are doing. If you subscribe to that, it’s a catch 22. In order for it to be ‘legitimate’ you must be getting paid. If you get paid, you are no longer retired.

Nords

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I'm happy to help out neighbors with handyman repairs, but I charge most of them $25/hour so that (1) they're not too proud or shy to ask for help and (2) they don't abuse the value of my time/assistance…..I still give surfing lessons for free. No plans to change that.
Perfect!! Everyone gets what they need or want. This is your life, you’re in charge of what you do, for and with whom -- and how much, if anything, to charge.

The FREEDOM of being financially independent: You get to decide.

MJ
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ER is not a pure science. The idea is that you don't need to work to have the lifestyle you choose to have. When people ask me whether I am retired, I tell them no, I just don't work.
Great answer also, MJ.

Be well, stay strong!
Akaisha
Author, The Adventurer’s Guide to Early Retirement
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Old 12-03-2007, 10:09 PM   #34
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Akaisha,

Great post! I'd also make the point that anything you're doing now must seem like nothing compared to running a restaurant and being a Dean-Witter VP!

However, I do have an important point:
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Billy does a good deal of computer trouble-shooting here in Thailand and back in the States and doesn’t charge anything for it. But if someone gives him free internet café time or bakes him some banana bread in exchange does it now become work?
And IIRC you sometimes tend bar for free lodging. And other services for free stuff.

It is important for someone like myself trying to figure out the safe nest egg. You live on an average of $24,000 per year. But the free stuff you get for that service has value - if you didn't do it, your lifestyle would cost more. Whether or not it's 'work' (however we care to define that term).
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Old 12-03-2007, 10:13 PM   #35
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I'm happy to help out neighbors with handyman repairs, but I charge most of them $25/hour so that (1) they're not too proud or shy to ask for help and (2) they don't abuse the value of my time/assistance.
Good idea! TickTock Rule of Finance (tm): What is 'free' tends to get abused.

For example, I'm a salaried employee. If we work a contractor over the weekend, we have to pay 1.5x, 2x on Sundays/Holidays, and so forth. The decision causes much agony. But for me, the standard is 'work as much as you want! In fact, work MORE than you want!! (Hey, I'm 'free'!!!)

The extra hours SHOULD 'hurt' (the company financially), IMO, to keep down the abuse.
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Old 12-03-2007, 10:15 PM   #36
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My mom volunteered at the local geneology library for many many years... she loved it... but then it got to be to much like work because she could not take off when she wanted because it would be shut down as there were no others who helped... finally told them to get stuffed when they got huffy with her going to a Dr. appt...
Yah. What part of 'volunteer' is hard to understand here? :confused:
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Old 12-04-2007, 08:08 PM   #37
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It is important for someone like myself trying to figure out the safe nest egg. You live on an average of $24,000 per year. But the free stuff you get for that service has value - if you didn't do it, your lifestyle would cost more. Whether or not it's 'work' (however we care to define that term).
Hi Tick Tock. You bring up a very good point on which I thought I might add some light from our experiences.

When we were working, we hired people to do our services (gardener, housecleaning, car repair, car wash, drycleaning, etc. etc.). It's because we didn't have any personal time, and to spend it doing things that weren't rewarding or relaxing just added to our stress.

Now that we are financially independent and are not reliant upon a paycheck and the hours one puts in to receive that money, we are able to barter for, exchange our time for, or simply give to others. It creates a solid sense of community with individuals that we didn't have in the same way as before.

I am guessing, but I would think others have similar experiences.

In our community, there are those people who know how to fix washers and dryers but don't know beans about computers. We exchange those services and everyone benefits. Or sometimes there is an elderly or ill person who cannot get to the grocery or prepare a meal. I do both of those things on a regular basis, and I simply check in with them to see if they need anything. If I'm making a pan of lasagna, I wrap up some portions and give them away. Then, when we are on our long travels, these same people will look after our place to be sure our roof doesn't blow off in a storm, or we don't have any water damage. We don't get the daily or Sunday newspapers but a neighbor does, and when there is a cupon for a sale at Michael's crafts, she walks down and gives me the flyer. When I make poached pears with wine and cinnamon, I give her a batch for her trouble.

How does one put a value on these peripheral services/items? I'm not sure, but yes, our lives are richer for it. I could live happily without the banana bread, but it makes life sweeter having the exchange.

I'm sure when you unplug from the working world your many talents will find ways of bringing in plenty of exchanges. I don't know how anyone can budget those into their retirement plans.

Be well,
Akaisha
Author, The Adventurer's Guide to Early Retirement
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Old 12-04-2007, 08:21 PM   #38
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If you are asking if the proceeds from our popular book, The Adventurer’s Guide to Early Retirement, has effected our lifestyle choices and spending, the answer is no. Or if we are dependent on the book sales to continue our lifestyle, the answer is still no.
The "found money" doesn't affect one's lifestyle, but eventually it becomes a "green waste" issue. We're still searching for value in our spending, and if the value isn't there then we're not likely to spend it.

But every once in a long while it's nice to be able to dip into that stash to solve a problem right now. Or to loan through Kiva.org. Or to donate to charity.

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Good idea! TickTock Rule of Finance (tm): What is 'free' tends to get abused.
The extra hours SHOULD 'hurt' (the company financially), IMO, to keep down the abuse.
What you're describing is a debilitating syndrome called "management" and one of the few effective antidotes is called "the union".

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I'm sure when you unplug from the working world your many talents will find ways of bringing in plenty of exchanges.
Craigslist and other community bulletin boards!
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Old 12-05-2007, 12:33 AM   #39
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If you are asking if the proceeds from our popular book, The Adventurer’s Guide to Early Retirement, has effected our lifestyle choices and spending, the answer is no. Or if we are dependent on the book sales to continue our lifestyle, the answer is still no.
This statement is hard for me to understand. If you live on a portfolio, rather than a pension, any money that you earn must improve your position, either by allowing you to raise your withdrawal level at the same level of risk, or by allowing you to keep the same level of withdrawals, but at a reduced risk.

If you only sold a few books that might not matter, but you describe it as "our popular book, The Adventurer’s Guide...” So your own words suggest a meaningful income stream. Personally I think a part time non-annoying business or job is a good idea. I am just puzzled by the way you frame it.

Ha
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Old 12-05-2007, 12:59 AM   #40
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The short answer is 100% and 0%.

That's interesting....... I guess I assumed that since your books were popular and you charge for them (of course!), that they generated some cash for you. But you say 100% of your cash expenditures are covered by investment income from money you saved before retiring at 38.

I also enjoyed your comments regarding bartering. I had assumed you sometimes received some items of value such as accomodations or transportation. But you emphasized receiving only small favors such as someone providing a discount coupon or watching your house while you're away.

Very impressive. With only $24K/yr passive investment income, I can't imagaine how we would make it without having the part time business generate at least a few pennies of spendable cash or the bartering result in receiving something in trade that meaningfully reduced expenses.
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