Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Is ER a peculiarly America concept
Old 12-17-2007, 01:37 PM   #1
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
nun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,872
Is ER a peculiarly America concept

I've looked for foreign ER sites, but can't find any. There's certainly none that I can find in the UK and the idea of stopping paid work is almost unheard of there, maybe because retirement accounts are not as flexible as in the US and after tax equity investing is still a bit of a novelty.

Another explanation might the European concept of "La Dolce Vita". In the UK its more "let's go down the pub", but the stress of everyday life is less so that people just aren't as desperate to ER as in the US.
nun is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 12-17-2007, 02:20 PM   #2
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,856
If by "peculiar" you mean "different from the usual or normal", well, then, yes, perhaps it is.

Or maybe we Americans are rediscovering a concept that's been embraced by Europeans, South Americans, & Polynesians for centuries-- to say nothing of Samuel Johnson.

But if by "peculiar" you mean "odd, curious, eccentric, queer"... well, geez, let's not go there again.
__________________
*

Co-author (with my daughter) of “Raising Your Money-Savvy Family For Next Generation Financial Independence.”
Author of the book written on E-R.org: "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement."

I don't spend much time here— please send a PM.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2007, 02:41 PM   #3
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
maddythebeagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,450
Seems like there is a fair amount of Canadians on this board and seems easier for folks with universal care in general to be less tied to a job...
maddythebeagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2007, 02:56 PM   #4
Moderator Emeritus
W2R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 47,473
Since I'll be retiring at age 61.5, which some here do not consider to be extremely early, I looked online for a good message board for people wanting to retire in general. Although there are several good investment boards, for a broad variety of other more general retirement issues I couldn't find anything that I liked as much as this board.

I think that this message board is unusual for any country or topic. It just happens to have attracted some very savvy participants who have a lot to say.
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities. - - H. Melville, 1851.

Happily retired since 2009, at age 61. Best years of my life by far!
W2R is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2007, 03:22 PM   #5
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Bikerdude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,901
France has many union jobs that retire at 50. Same for Italy. Don't know about Germany but I suspect the same. That seems to qualify as ER to me. Plus when they do work they get 8 weeks "holiday" every year plus other time off.
__________________
“I guess I should warn you, if I turn out to be particularly clear, you've probably misunderstood what I've said” Alan Greenspan
Bikerdude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2007, 03:30 PM   #6
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
lazygood4nothinbum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,895
we are everywhere.

The Idler Forum

Why Work? :: Index

though not e.r. per say, i would also point to many expat & travel forums whose participants often value leisure higher than work.

as to being particularly american, hey, if i had 5 weeks off a year maybe i wouldn't have e.r.'d. oh, wait, never mind, actually i had more than that. i must just be lazy.

edit: here's a 2005 blog on japan (i can not speak to the authors' accuracy--no idea who they are)

The Becker-Posner Blog: Later Retirement: Japan Leads the Way--BECKER

Quote:
What spurs the Japanese to work beyond the official retirement age is partly that they usually are in good health, and do not look forward to about 30 years of retirement without much to do. However, they also continue to work because retirement benefits from the government and private companies are modest, even for higher-level executives. Retirement income of about $2000 per month is at the high end, so most workers who retire at 60 receive much less than that. They decide to work in their 60's and their 70's in order to supplement greatly their incomes.
doing a quick search for e.r. in japan, mostly i just get articles on job cuts.
__________________
"off with their heads"~~dr. joseph-ignace guillotin

"life should begin with age and its privileges and accumulations, and end with youth and its capacity to splendidly enjoy such advantages."~~mark twain - letter to edward kimmitt 1901
lazygood4nothinbum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2007, 04:29 PM   #7
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Okanagan Valley
Posts: 808
Quote:
Originally Posted by maddythebeagle View Post
Seems like there is a fair amount of Canadians on this board and seems easier for folks with universal care in general to be less tied to a job...
Universal health care makes it extremely easy to move from company to company, retire, move between provinces, etc. Having said that, health care is the domain of provinces which must meet the minimum requirements of the Canada Health Act to receive federal funds, but which are also free to cover more (or less) procedures and some alternative approaches to care. That makes for some quirks for folks moving between provinces, but it doesn't influence decisions.
AltaRed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2007, 05:13 PM   #8
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Posts: 802
Health care does not rate in the Zippers retirement. (Canada)
Zipper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2007, 06:26 PM   #9
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Willamette Valley, Oregon
Posts: 1,979
Quote:
Originally Posted by Want2retire View Post
Since I'll be retiring at age 61.5, which some here do not consider to be extremely early, I looked online for a good message board for people wanting to retire in general.
I have been misreading several posts lately. I need to slow down.

I thought you said you were looking for a good "massage board for people wanting to retire early".
__________________
Dreams Worth Dreaming are Dreams Worth Planning For. I Spent a Career Planning for Early Retirement.
RetireeRobert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2007, 07:03 PM   #10
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 623
Quote:
Originally Posted by RetireeRobert View Post
I thought you said you were looking for a good "massage board for people wanting to retire early".
Hey, who isn't?
__________________
"Making deliberate choices about how to spend your money and your time is the essence of making the most of your life energy." -Bill Perkins, Die With Zero

"I've traded love for pennies, sold my soul for less" -Jim Croce, Age
TickTock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2007, 07:35 PM   #11
Moderator Emeritus
W2R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 47,473
Quote:
Originally Posted by RetireeRobert View Post
I have been misreading several posts lately. I need to slow down.

I thought you said you were looking for a good "massage board for people wanting to retire early".
LOL!!! Good idea!
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities. - - H. Melville, 1851.

Happily retired since 2009, at age 61. Best years of my life by far!
W2R is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2007, 10:57 PM   #12
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
youbet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 13,151
Quote:
Originally Posted by AltaRed View Post
Universal health care makes it extremely easy to move from company to company, retire, move between provinces, etc. Having said that, health care is the domain of provinces which must meet the minimum requirements of the Canada Health Act to receive federal funds, but which are also free to cover more (or less) procedures and some alternative approaches to care. That makes for some quirks for folks moving between provinces, but it doesn't influence decisions.
This is the main reason I'm for some type of universal health care down here. Locking folks into jobs they grow to hate just doesn't seem very efficient. Especially public sector employees. So many that post here seem burned out and desperate to get out of a lifetime of toil for the agency they joined right out of college or high school. With universal health care and cash balance pensions, they'd be free from golden handcuffs and could move to where they want to be.
__________________
"I wasn't born blue blood. I was born blue-collar." John Wort Hannam
youbet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2007, 02:00 AM   #13
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Duesseldorf, Germany
Posts: 1,202
In Germany the "legal" age for retirement is moving up from 63/ladies, 65/men to 67, while in reality lots of employees leave at about 60 to 62 due to employer/employee bargains and unemployment.

The concept of ER might not be so popular here because in most jobs you have minimum 4 weeks, usually 5-6 weeks of paid vacation per year and people really take it. Then, if you have health issues you can apply for add 4-6 weeks for rehab every some years.
I am sure this makes a huge difference.

In the last years the employer/employee deals became rather unattractive as unemployment system and tax system was changed. Now that the legal age for retirement is also moving up more people will become be aware of the need to cover some years between job and receiving pension / full social security.
Even though our employers cannot terminate employment as easy as in the US, it is not attractive to stay where you are not welcome any more after a certain age.
Yes, we have age discrimination laws. But then reality kicks in...

So far there is no specialised website on (voluntary) early retirement issues I know of.
chris2008 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2007, 10:52 AM   #14
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Rambler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,487
Quote:
Originally Posted by lazygood4nothinbum View Post
we are everywhere.

The Idler Forum

Why Work? :: Index

though not e.r. per say, i would also point to many expat & travel forums whose participants often value leisure higher than work.

as to being particularly american, hey, if i had 5 weeks off a year maybe i wouldn't have e.r.'d. oh, wait, never mind, actually i had more than that. i must just be lazy.

edit: here's a 2005 blog on japan (i can not speak to the authors' accuracy--no idea who they are)

The Becker-Posner Blog: Later Retirement: Japan Leads the Way--BECKER



doing a quick search for e.r. in japan, mostly i just get articles on job cuts.

The real reason the Japanese men do not want to retire is that their homes are on average about 600-650 sq ft...and that includes room for all their possessions and their wife. The wives don't know what to do with the "gomi" (garbage) after he is retired. So, they insist he either stay employed or seek re-employment. Everyone thinks Japan is a "men's society"....well, now you know who the real boss is...

R
Rambler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2007, 11:09 AM   #15
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
nun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,872
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikerdude View Post
France has many union jobs that retire at 50. Same for Italy. Don't know about Germany but I suspect the same. That seems to qualify as ER to me. Plus when they do work they get 8 weeks "holiday" every year plus other time off.
I wasn't thinking of jobs where you officially retire at 50 with a nice pension, I was thinking of the US model where you leave before you have to. I think the US tradition of self reliance is a big factor in this.
nun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2007, 09:47 AM   #16
Full time employment: Posting here.
beowulf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by nun View Post
I wasn't thinking of jobs where you officially retire at 50 with a nice pension, I was thinking of the US model where you leave before you have to. I think the US tradition of self reliance is a big factor in this.
I really believe this to be true. That and the fact that pretty much anyone can make a lot of money in the US if they really try hard and have a bit of luck. Most other societies, even in developed countries, are far more tradition oriented - you do what your parents did and you are somewhat locked into the social position you are born into. That's changing to some degree, but it really was never a factor here.

And, in many countries, if you don't work, you don't eat, and the elderly are completely at the mercy of the government. Our self-reliance makes one heck of a difference.
beowulf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2007, 11:58 AM   #17
Full time employment: Posting here.
jambo101's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Montreal
Posts: 940
Quote:
Originally Posted by maddythebeagle View Post
Seems like there is a fair amount of Canadians on this board and seems easier for folks with universal care in general to be less tied to a job...
I'm sure we are paying as much in taxes in the form of payroll deductions for our healthcare system as a US based private health plan would cost.
As the govmnt no longer itemizes the cost for health care on our pay checks i can only guess that it would be around $40 to $50 per week.
__________________
"Second star to the right and straight on till morning"
jambo101 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2007, 12:14 PM   #18
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
nun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 4,872
Quote:
Originally Posted by restonham View Post
I really believe this to be true. That and the fact that pretty much anyone can make a lot of money in the US if they really try hard and have a bit of luck. Most other societies, even in developed countries, are far more tradition oriented - you do what your parents did and you are somewhat locked into the social position you are born into. That's changing to some degree, but it really was never a factor here.

And, in many countries, if you don't work, you don't eat, and the elderly are completely at the mercy of the government. Our self-reliance makes one heck of a difference.
Actually the US has the most rigid social class system. Its very hard to move up the socio-economic ladder in the US
nun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2007, 12:32 PM   #19
Recycles dryer sheets
gandalf42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Fort Collins, CO
Posts: 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by nun View Post
Actually the US has the most rigid social class system. Its very hard to move up the socio-economic ladder in the US
:confused::confused::confused:

Are you having a bad ladder day?
__________________
"Being rich is having money; being wealthy is having time."

"It is only possible to live happily ever after on a day-to-day basis” Margaret Bonnano
gandalf42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2007, 01:07 PM   #20
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Milton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,360
Quote:
Originally Posted by maddythebeagle View Post
Seems like there is a fair amount of Canadians on this board and seems easier for folks with universal care in general to be less tied to a job...
On the other hand, Americans enjoy substantially lower taxes, so they are able to save/invest more money than Canadians and should thus be in a position to afford private health insurance in ER.
__________________
"To know what you prefer, instead of humbly saying Amen to what the world tells you you ought to prefer, is to have kept your soul alive". Robert Louis Stevenson, An Inland Voyage (1878)
Milton is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Have you ever heard of the "infinite banking" concept? markf57 Other topics 71 07-18-2008 08:09 PM
Bank of America - Anyone use 'em? Shabber2 FIRE and Money 10 11-08-2007 09:27 AM
Nothing Wrong With America That Can't Be Fixed By What's Right With America Danny Other topics 12 02-17-2007 11:06 PM
Poor habits lead to poor future~an old concept mickeyd Other topics 0 05-29-2006 10:24 AM
The Three Level Concept JWR1945 FIRE and Money 23 09-13-2004 05:06 PM

» Quick Links

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:23 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.