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Is ER a peculiarly America concept
Old 12-17-2007, 02:37 PM   #1
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Is ER a peculiarly America concept

I've looked for foreign ER sites, but can't find any. There's certainly none that I can find in the UK and the idea of stopping paid work is almost unheard of there, maybe because retirement accounts are not as flexible as in the US and after tax equity investing is still a bit of a novelty.

Another explanation might the European concept of "La Dolce Vita". In the UK its more "let's go down the pub", but the stress of everyday life is less so that people just aren't as desperate to ER as in the US.
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Old 12-17-2007, 03:20 PM   #2
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If by "peculiar" you mean "different from the usual or normal", well, then, yes, perhaps it is.

Or maybe we Americans are rediscovering a concept that's been embraced by Europeans, South Americans, & Polynesians for centuries-- to say nothing of Samuel Johnson.

But if by "peculiar" you mean "odd, curious, eccentric, queer"... well, geez, let's not go there again.
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Old 12-17-2007, 03:41 PM   #3
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Seems like there is a fair amount of Canadians on this board and seems easier for folks with universal care in general to be less tied to a job...
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Old 12-17-2007, 03:56 PM   #4
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Since I'll be retiring at age 61.5, which some here do not consider to be extremely early, I looked online for a good message board for people wanting to retire in general. Although there are several good investment boards, for a broad variety of other more general retirement issues I couldn't find anything that I liked as much as this board.

I think that this message board is unusual for any country or topic. It just happens to have attracted some very savvy participants who have a lot to say.
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Old 12-17-2007, 04:22 PM   #5
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France has many union jobs that retire at 50. Same for Italy. Don't know about Germany but I suspect the same. That seems to qualify as ER to me. Plus when they do work they get 8 weeks "holiday" every year plus other time off.
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Old 12-17-2007, 04:30 PM   #6
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The Idler Forum

Why Work? :: Index

though not e.r. per say, i would also point to many expat & travel forums whose participants often value leisure higher than work.

as to being particularly american, hey, if i had 5 weeks off a year maybe i wouldn't have e.r.'d. oh, wait, never mind, actually i had more than that. i must just be lazy.

edit: here's a 2005 blog on japan (i can not speak to the authors' accuracy--no idea who they are)

The Becker-Posner Blog: Later Retirement: Japan Leads the Way--BECKER

Quote:
What spurs the Japanese to work beyond the official retirement age is partly that they usually are in good health, and do not look forward to about 30 years of retirement without much to do. However, they also continue to work because retirement benefits from the government and private companies are modest, even for higher-level executives. Retirement income of about $2000 per month is at the high end, so most workers who retire at 60 receive much less than that. They decide to work in their 60's and their 70's in order to supplement greatly their incomes.
doing a quick search for e.r. in japan, mostly i just get articles on job cuts.
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Old 12-17-2007, 05:29 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by maddythebeagle View Post
Seems like there is a fair amount of Canadians on this board and seems easier for folks with universal care in general to be less tied to a job...
Universal health care makes it extremely easy to move from company to company, retire, move between provinces, etc. Having said that, health care is the domain of provinces which must meet the minimum requirements of the Canada Health Act to receive federal funds, but which are also free to cover more (or less) procedures and some alternative approaches to care. That makes for some quirks for folks moving between provinces, but it doesn't influence decisions.
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Old 12-17-2007, 06:13 PM   #8
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Health care does not rate in the Zippers retirement. (Canada)
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Old 12-17-2007, 07:26 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Want2retire View Post
Since I'll be retiring at age 61.5, which some here do not consider to be extremely early, I looked online for a good message board for people wanting to retire in general.
I have been misreading several posts lately. I need to slow down.

I thought you said you were looking for a good "massage board for people wanting to retire early".
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Old 12-17-2007, 08:03 PM   #10
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I thought you said you were looking for a good "massage board for people wanting to retire early".
Hey, who isn't?
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Old 12-17-2007, 08:35 PM   #11
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I have been misreading several posts lately. I need to slow down.

I thought you said you were looking for a good "massage board for people wanting to retire early".
LOL!!! Good idea!
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Old 12-17-2007, 11:57 PM   #12
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Universal health care makes it extremely easy to move from company to company, retire, move between provinces, etc. Having said that, health care is the domain of provinces which must meet the minimum requirements of the Canada Health Act to receive federal funds, but which are also free to cover more (or less) procedures and some alternative approaches to care. That makes for some quirks for folks moving between provinces, but it doesn't influence decisions.
This is the main reason I'm for some type of universal health care down here. Locking folks into jobs they grow to hate just doesn't seem very efficient. Especially public sector employees. So many that post here seem burned out and desperate to get out of a lifetime of toil for the agency they joined right out of college or high school. With universal health care and cash balance pensions, they'd be free from golden handcuffs and could move to where they want to be.
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Old 12-18-2007, 03:00 AM   #13
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In Germany the "legal" age for retirement is moving up from 63/ladies, 65/men to 67, while in reality lots of employees leave at about 60 to 62 due to employer/employee bargains and unemployment.

The concept of ER might not be so popular here because in most jobs you have minimum 4 weeks, usually 5-6 weeks of paid vacation per year and people really take it. Then, if you have health issues you can apply for add 4-6 weeks for rehab every some years.
I am sure this makes a huge difference.

In the last years the employer/employee deals became rather unattractive as unemployment system and tax system was changed. Now that the legal age for retirement is also moving up more people will become be aware of the need to cover some years between job and receiving pension / full social security.
Even though our employers cannot terminate employment as easy as in the US, it is not attractive to stay where you are not welcome any more after a certain age.
Yes, we have age discrimination laws. But then reality kicks in...

So far there is no specialised website on (voluntary) early retirement issues I know of.
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Old 12-18-2007, 11:52 AM   #14
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we are everywhere.

The Idler Forum

Why Work? :: Index

though not e.r. per say, i would also point to many expat & travel forums whose participants often value leisure higher than work.

as to being particularly american, hey, if i had 5 weeks off a year maybe i wouldn't have e.r.'d. oh, wait, never mind, actually i had more than that. i must just be lazy.

edit: here's a 2005 blog on japan (i can not speak to the authors' accuracy--no idea who they are)

The Becker-Posner Blog: Later Retirement: Japan Leads the Way--BECKER



doing a quick search for e.r. in japan, mostly i just get articles on job cuts.

The real reason the Japanese men do not want to retire is that their homes are on average about 600-650 sq ft...and that includes room for all their possessions and their wife. The wives don't know what to do with the "gomi" (garbage) after he is retired. So, they insist he either stay employed or seek re-employment. Everyone thinks Japan is a "men's society"....well, now you know who the real boss is...

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Old 12-18-2007, 12:09 PM   #15
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France has many union jobs that retire at 50. Same for Italy. Don't know about Germany but I suspect the same. That seems to qualify as ER to me. Plus when they do work they get 8 weeks "holiday" every year plus other time off.
I wasn't thinking of jobs where you officially retire at 50 with a nice pension, I was thinking of the US model where you leave before you have to. I think the US tradition of self reliance is a big factor in this.
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Old 12-19-2007, 10:47 AM   #16
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I wasn't thinking of jobs where you officially retire at 50 with a nice pension, I was thinking of the US model where you leave before you have to. I think the US tradition of self reliance is a big factor in this.
I really believe this to be true. That and the fact that pretty much anyone can make a lot of money in the US if they really try hard and have a bit of luck. Most other societies, even in developed countries, are far more tradition oriented - you do what your parents did and you are somewhat locked into the social position you are born into. That's changing to some degree, but it really was never a factor here.

And, in many countries, if you don't work, you don't eat, and the elderly are completely at the mercy of the government. Our self-reliance makes one heck of a difference.
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Old 12-19-2007, 12:58 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by maddythebeagle View Post
Seems like there is a fair amount of Canadians on this board and seems easier for folks with universal care in general to be less tied to a job...
I'm sure we are paying as much in taxes in the form of payroll deductions for our healthcare system as a US based private health plan would cost.
As the govmnt no longer itemizes the cost for health care on our pay checks i can only guess that it would be around $40 to $50 per week.
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Old 12-19-2007, 01:14 PM   #18
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I really believe this to be true. That and the fact that pretty much anyone can make a lot of money in the US if they really try hard and have a bit of luck. Most other societies, even in developed countries, are far more tradition oriented - you do what your parents did and you are somewhat locked into the social position you are born into. That's changing to some degree, but it really was never a factor here.

And, in many countries, if you don't work, you don't eat, and the elderly are completely at the mercy of the government. Our self-reliance makes one heck of a difference.
Actually the US has the most rigid social class system. Its very hard to move up the socio-economic ladder in the US
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Old 12-19-2007, 01:32 PM   #19
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Actually the US has the most rigid social class system. Its very hard to move up the socio-economic ladder in the US
:confused::confused::confused:

Are you having a bad ladder day?
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Old 12-19-2007, 02:07 PM   #20
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Seems like there is a fair amount of Canadians on this board and seems easier for folks with universal care in general to be less tied to a job...
On the other hand, Americans enjoy substantially lower taxes, so they are able to save/invest more money than Canadians and should thus be in a position to afford private health insurance in ER.
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