Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 08-09-2007, 01:55 PM   #21
Dryer sheet aficionado
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 26
People I know think it's pretty weird to be even considering it especially at 21. I get the awkward glances from people my age and people older then me. Talk about being the meat in a w*rk sandwich. Rancid.
__________________

roadtoharvard is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 08-09-2007, 02:56 PM   #22
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
lazygood4nothinbum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,895
i'm a lazy good for nothing bum but i'm ok with that. i was quick to learn that after you do what you have to do you can then, without harming others, do pretty much what you want to do.

i never took to someone telling me what to do and i never cared much for telling others what they should do. i make for a bad leader and a worse follower. though it sometimes amuses me to show people what they are doing, especially when they don't seem all too conscious of their own efforts or when they don't seem to be, say, motivated by the greater good. i try to entertain myself with humor or at least humility in that. but sometimes, to get the attention of someone running off, sometimes you have to just stick out your foot.

i could probably do all that for a living, but somehow, taking money seems to cheapen the experience for me. i'd rather trip up others voluntarily. i consider it my altruistic contribution to humanity.
__________________

__________________
"off with their heads"~~dr. joseph-ignace guillotin

"life should begin with age and its privileges and accumulations, and end with youth and its capacity to splendidly enjoy such advantages."~~mark twain - letter to edward kimmitt 1901
lazygood4nothinbum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2007, 04:03 PM   #23
Full time employment: Posting here.
tangomonster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 756
I think we're going to be deluged in the coming years (it's really started already) with ads and articles about how boomers aren't going to sit in rocking chairs and retire, let alone ER, but how they are going to continue to work on their own terms. This is all very well and fine in theory, but I can't be the only boomer who can't write her own ticket. I've always been an employee, at the bottom of the totem pole (a sweat hog, as my boss was known to refer to us---worthy of only the cheap wine and beer, while the managers were served the good hard stuff at Christmas parties!). While a so-called professional with a master's degree in a health/human service field, I wasn't treated with any more respect at 52 with 30 years of service than I would have been as a 22 year old (in fact, even though I produced three to four times what my younger co-workers did, the managers still liked the idea of hiring younger, "energetic" workers---I still can't see that all these employers are chomping at the bit to hire older workers). So it's not work per se that I'm adverse to. It's the way workers are treated and the inhumanity of the work world (in most situations). And at a salary in the low forties, there wasn't such a strong financial incentive to stay.

The article that was linked at the beginning of the thread started off with a paragraph about Jack Welch---how in his seventies, he doesn't want to retire and is still giving speeches and writing books. Well, yeah, if I was Jack Welch, I wouldn't have escaped either. But giving speeches and writing books isn't quite a full-time job either, so that's a little misleading. And for people who have been very successful and are extremely wealthy, I can understand the temptation to continue to work in some capacity, especially if it's a fun thing like starting your own winery (although how much actual work is put into this and how much is farmed out to underlings remains to be seen). But for people to whom the work world wasn't too kind, being FIREd was my golden parachute!

I realize I'm an anomaly because most people at my salary level either have to or want to live up to every cent and don't strive towards FIRE. So you will see us less than successful boomers continue to work because there may not be a choice. And those who have been very successful may well want to continue because the rewards (high salary, respect, ego fulfillment) are much higher than the costs (may be able to cut their hours, not have much stress, etc.).

And I actually don't think many people on this board started out being work-adverse. I think most were very hard workers who burnt out or just couldn't reap any more satisfaction from working. The co-workers who I left behind may not be work-adverse in that they will work until 65 or later, but if you could have seen them in action (or nonaction, as the case may be), you wouldn't consider them very pro-work either since they weren't working a full eight hours of the day and were very good about conserving their energy (you know the type---who could spend an hour telling you why they were too busy for a ten minute task!).
__________________
“It is not a sign of good health to be well adjusted to a sick society”.------Krishnamurti
tangomonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2007, 05:06 PM   #24
Recycles dryer sheets
JonnyM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Modesto
Posts: 334
Send a message via AIM to JonnyM Send a message via Yahoo to JonnyM
Thread answer must be yes. The very nature of this board is people trying, and succeeding to get out "early" as we have variously defined it. It stands to reason that we as a group have a different outlook on the whole work thing. The time in life that we "GET IT" seems to be a highly variable factor. Clearly we've got members that are very young that are seeing the benefits of planning now for a early exit from the workforce. I would expect the subset we represent is inversely proportional to age.

My story began at age 43, when DW and I had the epiphany, "we don't have to work forever, we can begin planning now and retire with reasonable income (enough to cover all living expenses, HC, and a bit left over for "fun stuff") in seven years. That was nine years ago. I more than a year into this new life, I'm totally digging it dudes and dudettes!

It was very clear to the two of us that we weren't defined by our jobs, and in fact would much prefer to get along nicely without them, even though we both had important job functions that had great effect on thousands of people. We know we did well, made a positive impact on society, but we'd done enough of that. We wanted to be free, and now we are. I worked in a pretty large building housing about 1000 coworkers. I found the concept of ER to be quite foreign to the majority. I was able to convert only a limited few to the dark side, a Dozen or so, out of many, many, coworkers I talked to about this very subject.

I got and still get some of DangerMouse circus side show looks, but in the end my few successes have been very rewarding. Showing someone how they can get out of the ratrace a few years sooner is very rewarding, and the thanks the few have given me offered up some great feeling of well-being. Well far to busy to write anymore, I have a bottle of Syrah calling my name... Gots to go.


__________________
It's about the music
JonnyM is offline   Reply With Quote
Personality
Old 08-09-2007, 05:25 PM   #25
Recycles dryer sheets
aenlighten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 275
Personality

I think a lot of extroverts would have problems not having a place to go each day. Many people need it to provide themselves with purpose and direction and otherwise occupy their time. I still receive job listings and toy with the idea of returning, but than I think about what it was like . It wasn't the work; I usually enjoyed that. It was the companies and the people. Some companies are great, some people too, but then there are also a lot of bad ones, ones that do stupid things, shortsighted ones, lost ones, incompetent ones, failing ones, disrespectful ones, etc.
__________________
aenlighten is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2007, 05:34 PM   #26
Full time employment: Posting here.
tightasadrum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: athens
Posts: 802
Wow. This thread is exposing some raw nerve endings.

Working people will carry their load and more IF they feel appreciated. That includes fair compensation, of course, but the emotional knowledge that peers and bosses appreciate what you accomplish is priceless for most people.

Someone needs to write a book. What am I saying? There are probably hundreds of these books in print…aren’t there? Not the self-help drivel that so many consultants churn out. You know, the guys who can write ten chapters about love making, but who never had a girlfriend. No, I mean a book that touches the heart of what TangoMonster so eloquently described. Where you put your heart into the task, and then some arrogant former roommate of the Division Manager completely misses the importance of what it took out of you to give it to him. Does if feel like you’re were wasting your time? No, it’s like wasting your life, for money. No wonder so many people on this forum want out.

I remember a conversation with a guy “down from headquarters” who, for some reason, had been watching one of our hourly workers in shipping. Mr. Headquarters commented about how “lazy” this fellow was. I knew the shipping guy well. He knew his job, and had a sense of responsibility and pride about what he did, and there was no backlog that I could see. I was puzzled, and it really made me mad. I pointed out that not only was the worker doing his job well, but when he left work at four, he went directly to a body shop business he owned and worked there until around midnight. And he did this every day. I told him I didn’t know how HE defined “lazy”, but this worker sure as hell wasn’t. It wasn’t too many years later that “lazy” quit his plant job, and last I heard, he had quite a successful business going. Who do you bet was better able to retire early?
__________________
Can't you see yourself in the nursing home saying, " Darn! Wish I'd spent more time at the office instead of wasting time with family and friends."
tightasadrum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2007, 05:51 PM   #27
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 377
People think the wife and I are insane, the difference is that I KNOW they are insane hehe.
__________________
Bigritchie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2007, 09:41 PM   #28
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
maddythebeagle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,450
Quote:
Wow. This thread is exposing some raw nerve endings.

Working people will carry their load and more IF they feel appreciated. That includes fair compensation, of course, but the emotional knowledge that peers and bosses appreciate what you accomplish is priceless for most people.
Yes, a raw nerve...I am also goal orientated and actually dont mind working but it is the office politics that gets old...It's "Lord of the Flies" out there
__________________
- Hurry! to the cliffs of insanity!
maddythebeagle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-09-2007, 10:40 PM   #29
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
SteveR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,803
Quote:
Originally Posted by cute fuzzy bunny View Post
I'm BS averse. I love working and spend a good 4-5 hours a day doing stuff around the house. But I cant imagine sitting in another meeting where we argue over whose name we should use for a program. I cant imagine spending another minute working for someone who is a closet moron that cant stay in the closet. I cant imagine spending half my time dealing with bullshit egos and stupid personal agendas office politics.

A lot of these folks are slow boiled frogs. They need a little time in some cool water to realize what they're up to their necks in.

Ding! Doing! Doing!
Wanting to leave dealing with Corporate (or government) BS, endless meetings, whinny employees, moronic management, useless policies, and HR flavor of the month mandates, all while working 10+ hour days with long commutes and high pressure jobs with very little recognition and even less satisfaction is what most of us wanted to leave. We are not afraid of work...most of us have worked our butts off to get to FIRE.

Nobody give you the means to be FIRE, you earn it throgh planning and hard work. No, we are not adverse to work...just working for somebody else.
__________________
Work? I don't have time to work....I'm retired.
SteveR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2007, 12:56 AM   #30
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
cute fuzzy bunny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,697
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveR View Post
Ding! Doing! Doing!
Hey, my lawyer says thats a derivative work, and therefore you still owe me the two dollars, plus 50 cents for her fees.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
cute fuzzy bunny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2007, 03:14 AM   #31
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 5,072
I do not think our general attitude about work is different than Gen Pop. I can conclude that by the number of people working and b!t<hing about work situations.

But I have noticed a couple of phenonmenon:
  1. Most people do not even think it is possible to ER early (at least in their situations). They assume they will need to work. If they do not figure it out soon, they will not have the benefit of compounding and it really is not possible for them.
  2. If people need to continue to work... It is less disturbing to the mind to conjure up reasons that one needs to work. Example 1: Real Motivation - Need More Money to live, Stated Rationalization - It keeps me engaged.
  3. Some people are in such a rut, they cannot imagine something different. Kinda like a horse with blinders on... just keep plodding along. There is some comfort and feeling of safety sticking with the Demon one knows.
It is never too late to improve one's financial situation (make it better than it currently is), but it can get too late to achieve FI and especially ER!
__________________
chinaco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2007, 07:03 AM   #32
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 854
Quote:
Originally Posted by tightasadrum View Post
Working people will carry their load and more IF they feel appreciated. That includes fair compensation, of course, but the emotional knowledge that peers and bosses appreciate what you accomplish is priceless for most people.
This is very true (the fact of the "emotional knowledge" that people appreciate what you accomplish being invaluable). Making a lot of money, even doing work that saves and improves lives, but having to work for and with people you don't respect, must be where the term "golden handcuffs" came from. The money trap is insidious.

I think it's great when people in their 20s and 30s figure this ER thing out (well, it's great other than the fact that it makes me a little envious because it's taken me longer to get a clue - heh-heh).
__________________
spncity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2007, 07:09 AM   #33
Full time employment: Posting here.
Sandy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 855
Tightasadrum: write a book? Sound like work, I just read Dilbert

To Chicano's comment about most people not thinking ER is possible. This is very true. I certainly didn't. I never gave it a thought until about 1 1/2 years ago. Was really frustrated and rummaging around the net looking for something - don't even remember how I was searching. Found this forum and the light bulb went off. Changed some aspects of my finances, re-ran numbers,pow-wowed with spouse, and moved my target FIRE date up about 5-6 years and DH's date up about 2-3 years (he is 10 years older). Wouldn't have gotten there without everyone's inspiration. If this was pre-internet days, and only co-workers, neighbors and family as examples, probably wouldn't have been able to see that it is possible. So, thanks to all.
__________________
I would not have anyone adopt my mode of living...but I would have each one be very careful to find out and pursue his own way, and not his father's or his mother's or his neighbor's instead. Thoreau, Walden
Sandy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2007, 08:07 AM   #34
Full time employment: Posting here.
citrine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 944
Tangomonster---Very well said. Most of us have a phenomenal work ethic, it's the rest of the corporate bs that turns us off!
I am 32 and have been working towards ER since 27...people think I am nuts...I think they are crazy for wanting to work till 67!!!
There is a HUGE discrepancy in the amount of pay where I work between assistants and managers/directors....if I made their salary of 250K for even two years....I would be able to semi retire!
I have a lot of hobbies and interests....also, I am able to be with myself and am content with my life. I see a lot of others just fighting to find an outside stimuli that will make it better, rescue them from boredom, and the like. They are the ones that are shopping every other day, complaining about working, keeping up with the Joneses, and the like.
I was watching Wayne Dyer last night and he brought up something really great....Living is Giving....take one thing that you absolutely love....and give it away with a smile and a open heart. This exercise is supposed to help one become detached from things and more grounded in spirituality.
__________________
citrine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2007, 08:33 AM   #35
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Moemg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sarasota,fl.
Posts: 10,032
I think there just comes a day no matter how much you liked your job that you've had enough and no matter what people say you are leaving .At that point all the mission statements and quality improvement meetings seem like BS .
__________________
Moemg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2007, 08:51 AM   #36
Administrator
W2R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 38,847
Quote:
Originally Posted by chinaco View Post
I do not think our general attitude about work is different than Gen Pop. I can conclude that by the number of people working and b!t<hing about work situations.

But I have noticed a couple of phenonmenon:
  1. Most people do not even think it is possible to ER early (at least in their situations). They assume they will need to work. If they do not figure it out soon, they will not have the benefit of compounding and it really is not possible for them.
  2. If people need to continue to work... It is less disturbing to the mind to conjure up reasons that one needs to work. Example 1: Real Motivation - Need More Money to live, Stated Rationalization - It keeps me engaged.
  3. Some people are in such a rut, they cannot imagine something different. Kinda like a horse with blinders on... just keep plodding along. There is some comfort and feeling of safety sticking with the Demon one knows.
It is never too late to improve one's financial situation (make it better than it currently is), but it can get too late to achieve FI and especially ER!
Many of us can disprove #1, above.

In 2000, at age 52, I wrote my (successful, millionaire, early-retired CFO) brother George an e-mail in which I mentioned that my credit was at rock bottom, I was in debt up to my eyeballs, and that I would probably be working until the day I died, because I honestly didn't think it would be possible for me to ever retire.

George sent back a "tough love" sort of e-mail, ripping me a new one for being so negative and telling me that I was brilliant, gifted in math, and that while he wasn't going to help me figure it out that I could do it and should stop whining!!! That set me back on my heels a bit. I have always had my head in the clouds when it comes to something this practical, and never really thought of myself as brilliant or even capable. I pretty much worship my brothers, though, so I took it to heart.

I dearly love my brothers because they care, and I have thanked George many times for that e-mail during the past seven years. I will be retiring in 2009-2010, 9 or 10 years after I thought it was "impossible", and actually it looks like I will have more spending money after ER than I have ever had in my life.

It would have been easier if I had started when I was 25, with the benefit of compounding that you cite, and hadn't gone through a rough divorce at age 50, but I wanted to point out that it is not impossible to ER just because one starts relatively late.

May everyone have a brother like George.
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities.

- - H. Melville, 1851
W2R is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2007, 09:39 AM   #37
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,080
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaredtoQuit View Post
I suspect that the people on this Board are some of the most work-adverse folk I have ever encountered. Do you think we are typical of the general population in this respect?
I don't think most of us posting here have an aversion to work that is beyond the average person. What I believe is exceptional about those attracted to this board is our self-discipline to do something about our aversion and to seek FIRE through a plan that doesn't (necessarily) involve winning the lottery.
__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2007, 10:24 AM   #38
Dryer sheet aficionado
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonnyM View Post
Thread answer must be yes. The very nature of this board is people trying, and succeeding to get out "early" as we have variously defined it. It stands to reason that we as a group have a different outlook on the whole work thing. The time in life that we "GET IT" seems to be a highly variable factor. Clearly we've got members that are very young that are seeing the benefits of planning now for a early exit from the workforce. I would expect the subset we represent is inversely proportional to age.
Well said. Most people never get "IT", and stay on the consumer treadmill until the end. Jack Welch, by the way, is performing not working. Clearly most of the media doesn't get it either
__________________
Beer man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2007, 11:49 AM   #39
Administrator
W2R's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: New Orleans
Posts: 38,847
To answer the original question,

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScaredtoQuit View Post
I suspect that the people on this Board are some of the most work-adverse folk I have ever encountered. Do you think we are typical of the general population in this respect? I don't mean our willingness to sacrifice to achieve FI. I mean our desire to not want to work at all... sometimes to the point of giving up not just the "fluffy" material things but sometimes cutting into the "meaty" ones.
I can't speak for anyone but myself. I would gladly work over 100 hours/week for half my present salary, if I felt that what I was doing had some importance or impact on the world, and if I felt that my capabilities, experience, education, and expertise were appropriately recognized and rewarded.

Instead, as I perceive it to be, work is a world very reminiscent of junior high school, where popularity (or in this case, getting ahead) depended on image and being "in with the in crowd". One gets ahead by knowing and flattering the right people, not by being a qualified, experienced person who is very good at the job.

I view myself as not a pretender, but the genuine article - - so I have no intention of remaining in an environment such as this.

Work certainly was not always this way, and perhaps it is not always this way today. But right now I wear the "golden handcuffs" so I have decided to stay at my present job until I can retire for good (2-3 more years).
__________________
Already we are boldly launched upon the deep; but soon we shall be lost in its unshored, harbourless immensities.

- - H. Melville, 1851
W2R is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-10-2007, 12:19 PM   #40
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 377
Quote:
Originally Posted by Want2retire View Post
Many of us can disprove #1, above.

In 2000, at age 52, I wrote my (successful, millionaire, early-retired CFO) brother George an e-mail in which I mentioned that my credit was at rock bottom, I was in debt up to my eyeballs, and that I would probably be working until the day I died, because I honestly didn't think it would be possible for me to ever retire.

George sent back a "tough love" sort of e-mail, ripping me a new one for being so negative and telling me that I was brilliant, gifted in math, and that while he wasn't going to help me figure it out that I could do it and should stop whining!!! That set me back on my heels a bit. I have always had my head in the clouds when it comes to something this practical, and never really thought of myself as brilliant or even capable. I pretty much worship my brothers, though, so I took it to heart.

I dearly love my brothers because they care, and I have thanked George many times for that e-mail during the past seven years. I will be retiring in 2009-2010, 9 or 10 years after I thought it was "impossible", and actually it looks like I will have more spending money after ER than I have ever had in my life.

It would have been easier if I had started when I was 25, with the benefit of compounding that you cite, and hadn't gone through a rough divorce at age 50, but I wanted to point out that it is not impossible to ER just because one starts relatively late.

May everyone have a brother like George.
I had a situation like that were my business was very slow, and all I would do is complain, and whine. Thankfully I called another owner, who actually got into the business because of me, and he told me to get off my lazy ass and quit being a baby, and take the business that I wanted and whining did no good, it just perpetuated bad business.

Best advice I ever got. Now if business even starts getting slow, I go and take more. Gotta love hard love and straight shooters.
__________________

__________________
Bigritchie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Long-time unemployed male population growing sparkee Other topics 50 08-03-2006 06:40 PM
Anyone see the 60 minutes on work last night? accountingsucks Other topics 32 07-25-2006 09:41 PM
Please talk me out of continuing to work! tangomonster Hi, I am... 31 07-11-2006 07:21 PM
Should Martha go back to work? Martha Young Dreamers 35 10-26-2005 08:40 PM
is an a r m mortgage okay for a short term until you get back to work ? zuki FIRE and Money 12 10-20-2005 11:45 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:24 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.