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Old 08-01-2011, 05:39 PM   #21
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Frankly I think his comment was a little rude, and your response was perfect.
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Old 08-01-2011, 06:37 PM   #22
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There are lots of people out there with "weird" ideas.

I met a guy who think that men, real men that is, should never retire. A man should work hard, tirelessly build his own legacy, and then die.

That guy will never understand or accept the concept of ER. And you have to accept that, no matter what choice you make in life, someone will find a way to criticize you for it.

You buy a Toyota, watch out for the Toyota bashers. You buy an Apple computer, watch out for the Apple naysayers. You eat organic food, watch out for the "I like pesticide in my food" crowd. You retire early, watch out for the "real man don't retire", "it can't be done" or "you'll be bored" believers.

As long as you are happy with your choice, it's best to just filter out the noise (easier said than done, I agree).
+1. This is just the way it is these days. For some reason, regardless of what you buy or do, there is someone out there to bash you.
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Old 08-01-2011, 06:40 PM   #23
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+1. This is just the way it is these days. For some reason, regardless of what you buy or do, there is someone out there to bash you.
That's what the "ignore list" is for
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Old 08-01-2011, 06:46 PM   #24
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That's what the "ignore list" is for
Sorry - I was referring to the bashers at social gatherings. Unfortunately, it's tough to hit the "ignore" button in those situations - but I wish I could.
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Old 08-01-2011, 06:49 PM   #25
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My wife had a couple of her friends over the other day and the topic came up of our ER. We both retired at 50 and for some reason this seams to bother some people. We surely don't flaunt it, but we obviously arn't working anymore so the question sometimes comes up.

One, a lawyer who appears to be doing very well, asked about my previous job. I told him that I use to put in a lot of hours and I had started planning for ER when I was 40. He made the comment " so that's how you justify quitting at 50". I simply said that I didn't have to justify anything, I simply didn't have to work and chose not to.

For some reason this rubbed me the wrong way. I didn't asked him why he continues to work, when he probably doesn't have to, when there are so many who need a job. How does he justify that.

I guess life is pretty good if this is the only thing that bothers me, that and my golf game is crappy right now.
DM your a classier guy than I am. I would have said something like "Originally I was going to retire at 45, but made a couple of poor investment decisions that set me back a couple of years", just to get a rise out of him.
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Old 08-01-2011, 07:51 PM   #26
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It just caught me a little off guard. It was a friend of my wifes husband. They are getting ready to remodel their kitchen and wanted to look at ours. So my wife invited them over for dinner.

I had met him before, but never really talked much with him. I get a little ribbing from friends and few questions from time to time. But this was just different, caught me off guard. Not a big deal or anything. He's a nice enough guy.
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Old 08-01-2011, 08:25 PM   #27
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...so the question sometimes comes up.

One, a lawyer who appears to be doing very well, asked about my previous job. I told him that I use to put in a lot of hours and I had started planning for ER when I was 40. He made the comment " so that's how you justify quitting at 50". I simply said that I didn't have to justify anything, I simply didn't have to work and chose not to.
You missed a tremendous opportunity for an "award winning smile" comeback line...

You could have told him it was not having to incur any huge legal fees in your lifetime that allowed you to LBYM and consequently FIRE.

Next question?
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Old 08-02-2011, 12:01 AM   #28
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I met a guy who think that men, real men that is, should never retire. A man should work hard, tirelessly build his own legacy, and then die.
As long as he's going to pay FICA & Medicare taxes then I guess I'm OK with his philosophy...
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Old 08-02-2011, 09:15 AM   #29
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Lots of lawyers I have known have the "real man" syndrome and take great pride in claiming to work more hours and days than anyone else. I used to be like that, too, but figured it out after the crazy hours contributed to a divorce and a lot of heartache for me, the ex-wife and our 2 children. I quit working the crazy hours and devoted myself to being the best father I could be. After a few years, I remarried and devoted myself to being the best husband I could be and the best father I could be to my 2 children from W1 and my 3d with current, last and best wife. And the odd thing is that while I may have made a little less money that my "real men" lawyer workaholic peers, I am financially much better prepared than 95% of them for a moderately early retirement.

"Real men" should be measured by their relationships, not how many hours they work or how much money they make.
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Old 08-02-2011, 09:25 AM   #30
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My wife had a couple of her friends over the other day and the topic came up of our ER. We both retired at 50 and for some reason this seams to bother some people. We surely don't flaunt it, but we obviously arn't working anymore so the question sometimes comes up.

One, a lawyer who appears to be doing very well, asked about my previous job. I told him that I use to put in a lot of hours and I had started planning for ER when I was 40. He made the comment " so that's how you justify quitting at 50". I simply said that I didn't have to justify anything, I simply didn't have to work and chose not to.

For some reason this rubbed me the wrong way. I didn't asked him why he continues to work, when he probably doesn't have to, when there are so many who need a job. How does he justify that.

I guess life is pretty good if this is the only thing that bothers me, that and my golf game is crappy right now.
Here's a response: "The great thing is we all have choices, and I chose to leave the workforce at 50. In a way, I am doing the economy a favor, I still pay taxes, and someone who wanted a job got mine, great huh"
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Old 08-02-2011, 09:40 AM   #31
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When someone says they choose to work when they could retire, it really isn't a choice, they just aren't saying why they still work. They may not know it themselves, but more likely there is some denial.

I still don't use the word "retired" in social conversation, preferring to say I stopped working YE '99 and am still considering my options.
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Old 08-02-2011, 10:42 AM   #32
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Lots of lawyers I have known have the "real man" syndrome and take great pride in claiming to work more hours and days than anyone else.
"Real men" should be measured by their relationships, not how many hours they work or how much money they make.
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Old 08-02-2011, 11:09 AM   #33
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There are lots of people out there with "weird" ideas.

I met a guy who think that men, real men that is, should never retire. A man should work hard, tirelessly build his own legacy, and then die.
But what if the "legacy" you want to build is something different than what you do for a living? In that case, your job is merely a means to an end - money and eventually FIRE.

I know a couple of lawyers who quit in their early-to-mid-40s to start writing careers. Their spouses had jobs with the government, so health insurance wasn't a problem. Likewise, they made enough money in their 15-20 year careers that they don't have to "work for the man" anymore. They're doing fine writing magazine articles, blog posts, etc... and they love what they do. Writing doesn't generate much money, but it does scratch the proverbial creative itch that many lawyers have (but can't exercise in their careers).
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Old 08-02-2011, 12:10 PM   #34
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Nine years later I'm still telling people "It's about choices and priorities, not rocket science"...
So many of the people I talk to just don't get that. I get the folks that are afraid to retire, its a big step, or those workaholic types. It's the people that desperately want to retire and choose not to. They won't cut back, won't save, won't downsize, but they sure do complain a lot and then wonder how we do it. It might not be rocket science, but the wherewithal to make choices and set priorities does elude some folks.

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But what if the "legacy" you want to build is something different than what you do for a living? In that case, your job is merely a means to an end - money and eventually FIRE.
I find a lot of people buy into the idea that your "legacy" must be your work/job/career. If you're getting paid to do it, its automatically be more worthwhile. Contributions made after retirement are just hobbies and leisure. Nothing of consequence.

IMHO, I think "legacies" are over-rated. They imply I owe something to somebody, that I must contribute to society on their terms, not mine. Some people really love their career and it's their calling, but for most of us our job is just a means to an end, whether we realize it or not.
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Old 08-02-2011, 12:57 PM   #35
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In the end, our legacy, for most of us, is what the executor tosses in the dumpster after they get a few last bucks out of our saggy old couch. The lucky ones get to leave a few dusty tomes in the Library of Congress.

Not that I'm getting cynical in my old age.
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Old 08-02-2011, 01:12 PM   #36
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IMHO, I think "legacies" are over-rated. They imply I owe something to somebody, that I must contribute to society on their terms, not mine. Some people really love their career and it's their calling, but for most of us our job is just a means to an end, whether we realize it or not.
I don't understand this obsession with legacies either. How many of the 6 billion people currently on this earth will be remembered for their contribution to society in 100 or 200 years? A handful. Most people will be forgotten. We will all become just a name on a tombstone.
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Old 08-02-2011, 01:18 PM   #37
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No one needs to justify ER. I feel most people just don't have a clue how to prepare for retirement. I'm 44 and plan to at least go PT by 50. I work with mostly peps in there mid to late 50's. Occassionaly I'll inquire if they were thinking about retirement, they're ALL speachless save for one who said he'd never be able to retire. They could all be shy. But I think they just don't know what to do other than continue to go to work every day. Pretty sad if you ask me.
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Old 08-02-2011, 02:22 PM   #38
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We will all become just a name on a tombstone.
Not me. I don't want to litter the earth. My documented plan is to just make an "ash of myself" and scatter the remains.

I'm not that vain to require any proof of my existance ...
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Old 08-02-2011, 03:29 PM   #39
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Bit off-topic but somewhat related. I was talking to my boss yesterday and he was saying, how is a guy making $180k per year supposed to come up with $100k cash? I was thinking... uhh.. that's not so hard... just LBYM and save.

With this kind of mentality, I know my boss will be working for a long time and won't be able to understand ER.
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Old 08-02-2011, 04:56 PM   #40
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