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Old 05-28-2015, 07:17 AM   #41
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There have been reports of Kitchenaid dishwashers catching fire. We had one about 5 years ago that started making what sounded like an electrical arcing noise and replaced it with a cheap Bosch. I took the K-A apart and it turned out to be a piece of plastic that somehow found its way into the impeller. So, that was a bit of a waste...the Bosch has been working fine and is quieter anyway.

I have the same gripe about useless electronics. SWMBO made me ditch a perfectly running 13 year old Amana refrigerator for a Samsung that was prettier but loaded with circuitry. Still holding my breath after 5 years.
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Old 05-28-2015, 08:56 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Paquette View Post
I strongly suspect that US appliance manufacturers (and a couple auto companies) really don't get electronics. Given the choice between a modern FR-4 board and additive copper on bakelite, they'll go for the bakelite every time. Now picture a piece of resin-treated cardboard (bakelite) in the steamy innards of a dishwasher. Why, yes, it does disintegrate in a couple of years. The warranty was for 1 year, so it doesn't matter...

Test methodology isn't any better. ...
This must explain it. In general, electronics have become super reliable.

'Test Methodology' - I probably have not seen/used that term since my last 'Performance Review'!

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Height is not the issue with any of the French Door/bottom freezer units I have seen. It's having everything in one huge drawer, as opposed to having shelves. ....
I see. Our bottom freezer (single door width style) does have a shelf and a bottom drawer. Like I said, we don't use it much anyway, but yes, it would seem to be worse no shelf.

Why don't they add a shelf?

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Old 05-28-2015, 09:12 AM   #43
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One of the displeasures of being an enginerd is we see stuff that would make the public's skin crawl.

M Paquette is spot on. Most US/European firms now employ contracted Asian manufacturing. The name brand firm will work with the contract firm on-site, do inspections, etc.

Then when the cat is away, the mice play with the missing diodes.

I also want to say there are many respectable Asian manufacturers. But the problem is there are many who are not. And it is LONG plane trip away.

EDIT: your "Made in USA" appliance probably contains one of those troublesome logic boards made elsewhere. Surprise!
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Old 05-28-2015, 09:26 AM   #44
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Newer dishwashers are quiet but I don't think they clean anywhere near as well as the older models.

You seem to be equiping for a larger kitchen but one appliance we had years ago and dearly loved was a combination microwave, convection oven, toaster oven all in one appliance. Saved lots of counter space and did a great job. Made by Sharp I think. Finally gave up the ghost and we could not get it repaired for twice what we paid for it. Haven't seen something that is really like it since. You can get two of the three features but not all three. Would be a great thing for an RV as well.
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Old 05-28-2015, 09:30 AM   #45
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I see. Our bottom freezer (single door width style) does have a shelf and a bottom drawer. Like I said, we don't use it much anyway, but yes, it would seem to be worse no shelf.

Why don't they add a shelf?
You probably have to see it to understand, I couldn't find a good picture. Unless you buy a high $ French Door refrigerator/freezer (which may have lots of sections/drawers), you're basically dealing with one big drawer to keep all your frozen goods in. And maybe 1-2 two smaller drawers above the main freezer storage bin. Probably the same challenge people face with large chest style freezers IF they were fully utilized, there was no getting around having to be organized and still constantly digging for things. You have to be highly organized IF you plan to fully use the space, more than other refrigerator/freezer styles. It's a nuisance, not a show stopper IMO.

How to Organize a Bottom Drawer Freezer - The Taylor House
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Old 05-28-2015, 09:38 AM   #46
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Newer dishwashers are quiet but I don't think they clean anywhere near as well as the older models.
Much of the problem is misplaced national goals for water saving. Sure it makes sense for some areas like California lacking the necessary infrastructure for modern life. But in areas of the country with plenty of water (say around those giant fresh water lakes we have) we all have to put with no choices except for the "efficient" dishwashers, cloth washers, and toilets that do a much poor job than those from 30 years ago.
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Old 05-28-2015, 10:20 AM   #47
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Much of the problem is misplaced national goals for water saving. Sure it makes sense for some areas like California lacking the necessary infrastructure for modern life. But in areas of the country with plenty of water (say around those giant fresh water lakes we have) we all have to put with no choices except for the "efficient" dishwashers, cloth washers, and toilets that do a much poor job than those from 30 years ago.
Maybe they'll get it right with the D/W next iteration.

When low flow toilets first came about in the 80s, then further in the 90s, they were a disaster.

However, most of the Watersense Toilets work pretty darn well, even at a meager 1.28 gpf. They do all this with no crazy pressure systems or anything like that. It is just common sense for the most part (large opening from the tank to release all the water very rapidly). My new watersense toilets work the best I've seen, better than 70's era versions!

If you ever need a laugh, and are technically inclined, read the Watersense Toilet Specification. Nothing like discussing "soybean paste sausages"...

Of course, such real world testing actually helped make these toilets work. The old specification used ridiculous objects like plastic balls. But sticky "sausages" is what you need. Yeah, I know. TMI.

Anyway... Maybe the next D/W's will benefit from a real testing program. It took over 20 years of complaints until the US Gov finally got real with the toilets.
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Old 05-28-2015, 10:27 PM   #48
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We have an all-Bosch kitchen. The side-by-side refrigerator/freezer had a major part that died after 5 years and the issue was that the part that converts from European to American electricity is a box that often does not last. It took a few days for the part to come in (there were none in TX, they had to get it from OK). Repair person said this is a common occurrence. Not a cheap replacement.

I like the combination range/oven - I had one before - and the dishwasher is incredibly quiet even after 5 years but a little complicated plus the wash cycle is really long. Microwave is fine.

I don't think I'd go with Bosch again unless I lived in an area where I knew there were parts readily available. I had to throw out all my refrigerator and freezer contents - it took about 4-5 days for the part to come in.


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What We Have Decided...
Old 06-03-2015, 02:02 PM   #49
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What We Have Decided...

Dear All: We would like to thank everyone for their input! After going around-and-around for a while, we have decided to purchase the following:
(1) Thermadore: 30" Duel Fuel Range + Thermadore Dishwasher that is a part of a "buy one range get a dishwasher free" deal.
(2) Kitchenaid French Door Refrigerator.

We'll let you know how well they perform...
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Old 06-06-2015, 08:21 AM   #50
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Just saw this thread. Probably too late for you but we gut renovated our kitchen in 2006 and went with:

Viking six burner gas range
Viking 42" side by side frig
Viking dual wall oven and microwave/convection combo
Subzero wine cooler
Bosch dishwasher

All except the wine cooler have had minimal/no service requirements. The wine cooler had not one but two seal failures that were covered for parts on warranty but not labor, so a $450 repair cost there. I think Viking is a superior product. -costly but you get what you pay for. The poster who felt there was no difference between a $4,000 range and a $500 range surely can't be the cook in his house.
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Old 06-06-2015, 08:39 AM   #51
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Dear All: We would like to thank everyone for their input! After going around-and-around for a while, we have decided to purchase the following:
(1) Thermadore: 30" Duel Fuel Range + Thermadore Dishwasher that is a part of a "buy one range get a dishwasher free" deal.
(2) Kitchenaid French Door Refrigerator.

We'll let you know how well they perform...
Nice! I have that refrigerator and do like it (we had testdriven a friend's french door over a long weekend sp knew we liked it). It did break down a month after we had it, two summers ago, came back from a different long weekend to find it running but warm. Computer problem, no explanation as to cause, part needed replacing, no problems since.

A good friend chose the Thermador range over all others for her very high-end kitchen and has another one in her newest home.
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