Knowing if one has what it takes to be an expat

[kcowan]

by the way, if you want a "Manhattan" lifestyle, you should be in the Makati area.

true but the beaches are nicer there.

 

[PhilAmerican]

Hi Philam, reading your post, I think the language barrier should not be a problem. As you know by now, English is the second language and majority of the filipinos speak english. Since you will be hiring a help, let her do the marketing and cooking and you can just supervise her and instruct her on what she needs to do. You should be fine. I do not know which part of the philippines you will be staying but if you like the laid back lifestyle in upstate New York, I am pretty sure you'll enjoy your stay in the philippines.
I am a New yorker of filipino descent too and dreaming of retiring there in a few years. you are lucky since you have inhereited property there so it's a good start. Good luck

by the way, if you want a "Manhattan" lifestyle, you should be in the Makati area.

Dear Jesaco,

I fear I will be disabusing you of some of your fantasies, so I want to apologize beforehand that no offense is intended here.

Yes, English is a secondary language spoken badly by most Filipinos. The primary language may be one of 60+ languages (documented so far) of which there are maybe 300+ dialects. A study of the geography and history of the Philippines may provide some insight on why this is so. The language barrier is not English. It's the primary language Filipinos are translating into English. So, yes, we might both speak English --- but that does not mean we understand each other.

Hiring help does not mean the person (I can afford) to hire will be of much help. The help may know how to market and cook for herself, but will she know how to market and cook for me? I seriously doubt I can hire a Filipino girl at random, supervise and instruct her on what she needs to do (not knowing how to cook Filipino dishes myself, mind you), and be FINE. The burden of training her is mine regardless.

It is a misconception that Filipinos even eat alike. There are as many cuisines in the Philippines as there are languages. Tagalogs eat differently from Bicolanos. Ilocanos eat differently from Cebuanos. Etc.

Let me use my family as an example. My (late) mother was raised in the Ilocos regions by Tagalogs. Unfortunately, she married a man whose hacienda was located in Bicol. So, all the help came from Bicol --- including the cook. My mother did not cook herself so she did not know what she was doing. It turns out Bicol cuisine uses a lot of coconut milk and hot chili peppers, which my mother (and I) cannot eat.

There's actually more to the story because my (late) father was not raised in Bicol, but in Manila. He came from the "landed" gentry of the Philippines, which means he was raised in the Spanish culinary tradition. Keep in mind that before the Americans came only Spaniards were allowed to own property in the Philippines. My father did not eat Bicolano, Tagalog or Ilocano food. Food was a serious bone of contention in my mother's household. Unfortunately, she did not know how to cook and my father learned to eat out (a lot).

If I want to eat well (according to my taste), I first will have to learn how to purchase and prepare the food ingredients available locally. In NY, one uses the ingredients available in NY (dairy products, broccoli, tube tomatoes, etc.) In Cainta, I will have to familiarize my self with the fresh ingredients in the wet markets. There is no way around this hard and fast rule. Then --- and only then --- can I hope to teach someone else to do the marketing and cooking for me. Otherwise, I'll be throwing myself at the mercy of the cook. I firmly believe one must not quarrel with a person who knows how to wield a knife.

So why even hire help?

Because everything takes forever to do in the Philippines even with labor saving devices and hired help. Loss of power is not unusual. Take the house I inherited. It's too big for one person. The main house has five bedrooms and four full baths. The guest casita has one full bath. The servants quarters has one full bath. That makes six full baths. Most houses in Monroe County have three bedrooms and two and a half baths. I've never lived in a house here in New York with more than three full baths! Then there's laundry and cooking to do. I probably need a staff of five. But I decided that to save money I will step in when someone is sick or is on vacation.

And before you bring up the subject, I've seriously considered selling the property and buying a condomium. Unfortunately, I haven't found a condomium yet where I can plant a tree. I need trees to dampen the noise from the neighbours. I don't actually know how noisy it will be in Cainta. But considering the land mass and the population of the Philippines, I can only guess.

I know you mention that you are of Filipino-descent. But have you ever actually lived in the Philippines? I left the country when I was 18 years old.

I do not know what you mean by "Manhattan" lifestyle, but having occasion to work in NYC myself, I know it's not for me. I much prefer Monroe County, which (unfortunately) has the highest property taxes in the whole of NY state. But the "laid back lifestyle" of upstate NY is over-rated. One can freeze to death here standing still. "Laid back" has its risks.

But let us return to the subject of this thread - Knowing if one has what it takes to be an expat.

Let me repeat: The reason why expats fail is because they underestimate what it takes to set-up a household outside of the US.

It is easier to set-up a household in the US. Everything is documented. Shopping is organized and easy to learn. Most people can read and there is no want of free-advice. And they have a place for everything and everything in its place --- including old people. Not so in countries outside of the US, where language (primary, secondary, etc.) and cuisine may pose a challenge.

If you are considering retiring outside of the US, think very carefully how you want to address the following issues:

1. food - Do you want to eat well or can you afford (and tolerate) eating out every night? Keep in mind, there are risks to eating out every night. You cannot ensure food safety. You have more control if you cook for yourself.

2. clothing - How well do you tolerate humidity, freezing temperatures, temperature-controlled environments, nudity (yours and others)? Who will be doing the laundry and how?

3. shelter - How much can you afford? How much noise can you tolerate? How important is sleep? What do you fear the most --- hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, ice storms, tsunamis, crime, housework, property taxes, isolation, infirmity? Your fears will tell you a lot about yourself and what you value.

4. time - How do you like to spend your time? Alone or in the company of others? How much time do you want to spend shopping? Cooking? Eating? Cleaning? Talking? Watching TV? Driving around? Are you comfortable delegating work? Perfectionists need not apply. Remember, time costs money and you have only one life to live.

5. money - What is your burn rate (the absolutely maximum amount of money you can spend before you start to throw up)? Some might say calculate this number weekly or monthly or yearly. I say calculate it when you're really scared and try not to be so scared all the time. St. Teresa of Avila said "Heaven is not for cowards." And this is really true. One cannot be afraid and be happy at the same time. The two emotions cannot co-exist.

The point of this exercise is to learn to be happy and if you know yourself, you can be happy anywhere in the world. So, be brutally honest with yourself. There is no room for fantasies once you leave the country.

I hope this helps.

 

[jesaco]

Wow, such a long answer to an innocent post that was meant to help. Please re read my post several times and see if there is any fantasies or insults in it. it was meant to encourage you not insult you. as I said you will be fine. No offense taken. I am happy for you since you belong to0a "Landed" family. I am not and worked double even triple to even built my home there. anyway, good luck on your future plans and please don't be too sensitive. this thread is a pulic thread and you might recieve a few answers on your queries. They are here to help us not to insult or ridicule us. OK

Let's get back to the topic. best regards

 

[PhilAmerican]

Wow, such a long answer to an innocent post that was meant to help. Please re read my post several times and see if there is any fantasies or insults in it. it was meant to encourage you not insult you. as I said you will be fine. No offense taken. I am happy for you since you belong to0a "Landed" family. I am not and worked double even triple to even built my home there. anyway, good luck on your future plans and please don't be too sensitive. this thread is a pulic thread and you might recieve a few answers on your queries. They are here to help us not to insult or ridicule us. OK

Let's get back to the topic. best regards

Dear Jesaco,

I'm sorry I offended you despite my best efforts. But this is a thread and I was being mindful that I was addressing my words to a larger audience than just yourself.

That my (late) father (not me) belonged to a "landed" family is entirely an accident of history. Do, however, give the man some credit. After all, he married my mother, who was living in the slums of Tondo when he was courting her.

I hope this helps.

 

[W2R]

If you are considering retiring outside of the US, think very carefully how you want to address the following issues:

Many of these issues are the same issues we wrestled with when thinking of moving to southern Missouri. I'll cross out the ones that would apply in such a case, and put those that don't in a bold font. No insult is intended but this will emphasize the differences that I perceive to be due solely to becoming an expat, as opposed to just moving within the US.

1. [-]food - Do you want to eat well or can you afford (and tolerate) eating out every night? Keep in mind,[/-] there are risks to eating out every night. You cannot ensure food safety. [-]You have more control if you cook for yourself.[/-]

2. [-]clothing - How well do you tolerate humidity, freezing temperatures, temperature-controlled environments,[/-] nudity (yours and others)? Who will be doing the laundry and how?

3. [-]shelter - How much can you afford? How much noise can you tolerate? How important is sleep? What do you fear the most --- hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, ice storms, tsunamis, crime, housework, property taxes, isolation, infirmity? Your fears will tell you a lot about yourself and what you value.[/-]

4. [-]time - How do you like to spend your time? Alone or in the company of others? How much time do you want to spend shopping? Cooking? Eating? Cleaning? Talking? Watching TV? Driving around? Are you comfortable delegating work? Perfectionists need not apply. Remember, time costs money and you have only one life to live.[/-]

[-]
5. money - What is your burn rate (the absolutely maximum amount of money you can spend before you start to throw up)? Some might say calculate this number weekly or monthly or yearly. I say calculate it when you're really scared and try not to be so scared all the time. St. Teresa of Avila said "Heaven is not for cowards." And this is really true. One cannot be afraid and be happy at the same time. The two emotions cannot co-exist.
[/-]

There were a couple of very cheap restaurants that we ate at in Springfield, and wouldn't again due to digestive rebellion, but probably they had at least had health inspections. So, I do think that is a difference to adjust to. Also, I am used to having my own laundry facilities and in some locations that would just not be an option. Nudity is not normally seen there. But other than that, your list looks much like mine.

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

Gosh, PhilAm, you do have a lot of anxiety about the move.

Instead of confronting your demons right now, have you considered a side-ways move? I am thinking of liquidating your assets, conserving your cash, pulling up stakes and trying another place, such as a beach town in Florida (Pensacola or Panama City) for 6 months or so, to get used to retirement. Do not buy property, just find a motel at first, then a room for a while. You have lots of time and the old homestead will still be there in a year or two. You do not HAVE to go back there--not now (not ever, if you do not want to). Go fishing. (Pensacola beach is great for that!) You do not have to plant roots anywhere right now, you just have to get out of NY. Disengage yourself from your present milieu first. Get comfortable. Then decide what to do next.

One step at a time. No giant leaps.

Best of luck, from one who has lived out of a suitcase for many years.

Ed the Gypsy

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

Another thought--go as if you were a tourist, for a while. Just consider hostels or other temporary situations to start with. You do not have to be an emotional prisoner of your old country.

 

[jesaco]

Noted, Thanks and kudos to your father.

All I could say is if you are having anxiety with just the thought of moving back to the philippines, Wait till you actually live there. I am going back because I love to be there... anyway, as ED said, no need to go and plant roots there if not 100% sure, but if you are, then go for it. No one can say or tell you what you can do. It will always be your desicion. Again, I AM NO INSULTING YOU. just my 2 cents worth.

Dear Jesaco,

I'm sorry I offended you despite my best efforts. But this is a thread and I was being mindful that I was addressing my words to a larger audience than just yourself.

That my (late) father (not me) belonged to a "landed" family is entirely an accident of history. Do, however, give the man some credit. After all, he married my mother, who was living in the slums of Tondo when he was courting her.

I hope this helps.

 

[Major Tom]

Great story Michael. As an expat living in the USA I could go on for hours about the language gaff's that I have made.

Rubbers and fags spring to mind........

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

Time for some levity!

I am compelled to apologize for knowing only one language --- English --- because this is not the norm in the Philippines. I am not considered a native speaker of any language --- including English. And I do not wish to mislead anyone.

The man who speaks three languages is called 'tri-lingual'.
The man who speaks two languages is called 'bi-lingual'.
The man who speaks one language is called 'an American'.

You can't get away from it, bud! Hitch up your jeans, summon your inner John Wayne and take on the world!

 

[PhilAmerican]

Dear W2R,

I'm glad you found the list useful.

I believe people are fundamentally the same all over. It is only when accidental differences cannot be forgiven, that trouble starts.

My decision to return to the Philippines was triggered by my boyfriend's decision to move to Vieques, Puerto Rico. I might make a good expat in the Philippines, but I was sure I was not going to make it in Vieques (or in Germany, where I have a sister.)

My boyfriend's decision to leave the US was due to taxes. His decision to move to Vieques was due to the availability of Medicare. I did not put this on my list because it is not relevant to setting up a household. But readers of this thread should also seriously think about this. What are their health issues?

If I had all the money in the world, I would probably choose to stay in upstate NY. Unfortunately, I will probably need all the money in the world just to pay NY's property taxes. So, the Philippines it is.

Happy to be of help.

 

[PhilAmerican]

Another thought--go as if you were a tourist, for a while. Just consider hostels or other temporary situations to start with. You do not have to be an emotional prisoner of your old country.

Dear Ed,

I seem to have given the impression this early retirement was planned.

It's not the case.

It all started with the house fire X'mas 2007 (the house belonged to my boyfriend) ... re-built a new house July 2008 ... financial melt-down September 2008 ... lost my job December 2008 ... received notice property taxes were doubling April 2009 ... boyfriend lost challenge with Tax Assessor's office November 2009 ... decision to move out of the US mainland April 2010 ... visited Vieques to find a new home September 2010 ... placed home up for sale May 2011 (sold in 4 days) ... decided to not go to Vieques but retire and move to the Philippines instead June 2011 ... moved into my sister's home August 2011 ... flying to the Philippines in November 2011.

That's the short form.

My retirement funds took a big hit during the financial melt-down and I haven't been working since 2008. I will be homeless and broke in two years time here in upstate NY if things continue this way.

Can I find a job in the next two years? Hmmm...will the Republican congress pass Obama's jobs bill before the next presidential election? Hmmm...what happens if Obama is re-elected for another four years? Hmmm

Or should I fly down now to a mortgage-free house in the Philippines (The property taxes are less than $300 a year), where the cost-of-living is half that of Monroe County and start building my dream kitchen?

Hmmm ... I wish I had more time to think this over.

 

[haha]

Dear Ed,

I seem to have given the impression this early retirement was planned.

It's not the case.

It all started with the house fire X'mas 2007 (the house belonged to my boyfriend) ... re-built a new house July 2008 ... financial melt-down September 2008 ... lost my job December 2008 ... received notice property taxes were doubling April 2009 ... boyfriend lost challenge with Tax Assessor's office November 2009 ... decision to move out of the US mainland April 2010 ... visited Vieques to find a new home September 2010 ... placed home up for sale May 2011 (sold in 4 days) ... decided to not go to Vieques but retire and move to the Philippines instead June 2011 ... moved into my sister's home August 2011 ... flying to the Philippines in November 2011.

That's the short form.

My retirement funds took a big hit during the financial melt-down and I haven't been working since 2008. I will be homeless and broke in two years time here in upstate NY if things continue this way.

Can I find a job in the next two years? Hmmm...will the Republican congress pass Obama's jobs bill before the next presidential election? Hmmm...what happens if Obama is re-elected for another four years? Hmmm

Or should I fly down now to a mortgage-free house in the Philippines (The property taxes are less than $300 a year), where the cost-of-living is half that of Monroe County and start building my dream kitchen?

Hmmm ... I wish I had more time to think this over.

You don't say or I missed how old you are. That, and how good are your chances of getting a good new job to pay the bills seem to be the key questions.
It may be that your question has been framed too narrowly. While I agree with you 100% that moving to a different nation and different language and completely different social system is a much bigger deal than moving say from Minneapolis to Jacksonville, if you are retirement age and will not need cash earnings it may be worth it to go through the transition.

Ha

 

[GregLee]

Or should I fly down now to a mortgage-free house in the Philippines (The property taxes are less than $300 a year), where the cost-of-living is half that of Monroe County and start building my dream kitchen?

I think you'll have a great life in the Philippines, and the house there you've inherited sounds really nice. It will be a wonderful adventure.

And before you bring up the subject, I've seriously considered selling the property and buying a condomium. Unfortunately, I haven't found a condomium yet where I can plant a tree. I need trees to dampen the noise from the neighbours.

Like you, I need trees. My wife and I both love trees and the birds that live in them, and that was a very important consideration for us when we bought our present home. Exchanging your house for a condo sounds like a perfectly awful idea.