Laguna Woods (Leisure World) Anyone?

[RetiredAndFree]

We've lived in Orange County for many, many years. IMHO you'd be hard pressed to find a nicer place to live, and I say that with years of traveling all over the USA and the world at large under my belt. The beaches are warm and beautiful, there are tons of terrific restaurants, lots of hugh end shopping options, entertainment options abound, and the weather is fabulous year round, particularly as close to the ocean as Laguna Woods is. You have San Diego an easy one hour drive to the south, and L.A. about the same to the north.

Seal Beach might well be a second option, with wonderful Huntington Beach your southerly neighbor, however to your north you'd be butting up against Long Beach, some of which is wonderful, and some of which is far from. Between the two, Seal Beach is considerably more congested, though it's more beachy feel and urban flair might be appealing, depending on your personal preferences.

Honestly, can't see how you could miss with either one.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

We've lived in Orange County for many, many years. IMHO you'd be hard pressed to find a nicer place to live, and I say that with years of traveling all over the USA and the world at large under my belt. The beaches are warm and beautiful, there are tons of terrific restaurants, lots of high end shopping options, entertainment options abound, and the weather is fabulous year round, particularly as close to the ocean as Laguna Woods is. You have San Diego an easy one hour drive to the south, and L.A. about the same to the north.

Seal Beach might well be a second option, with wonderful Huntington Beach your southerly neighbor, however to your north you'd be butting up against Long Beach, some of which is wonderful, and some of which is far from. Between the two, Seal Beach is considerably more congested, though it's more beachy feel and urban flair might be appealing, depending on your personal preferences.

Honestly, can't see how you could miss with either one.

Sounds great. We are looking forward to our scouting trip. We were in Southern California last winter for a long weekend and quite enjoyed the winter temps and sunshine.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Just thought I'd give an update on our search....I found some other real estate sites that stated the property tax is not included in the HOA for the co-ops at Laguna Woods. If that is true, which seems more likely, then it puts the cost of condo ownership, all expenses considered, on more of a par with the surrounding areas.

We still like the idea of moving to Orange County. It is kind of exciting what we could get for our money these days relative to the Bay Area, where the tech jobs are driving the prices back to bubble territory.

 

[Options]

I love California. We are just looking for the best price point of location / climate / beach access / things to do / safety between Orange County, San Diego and the Bay Area.

I must be in a different California. Lived in CA most of my life, grew up in the Bay Area and now think it's just as much of a cesspool as Lost Angeles and San Diego (traffic, crime, gangs, graffitti). My family is still in the BA and I don't understand what keeps them there.

Once I leave Lost Angeles (soon now), just like when I left the Bay Area many years ago, I will never come back. As to San Diego, traffic getting into/out of SD is just as horrendous as driving the 5 into/out of Orange County. The endless sprawl that is the OC going down the 5 has got to be one of the ugliest places on earth (excluding the beach towns, that is). About 20 years ago, an architect I knew said they should draw a ring around dowtown LA, nuke everything within a 150 mile radius, and start over. 20 years later, I'd say the same thing about San Francsico.

 

[W2R]

I must be in a different California. Lived in CA most of my life, grew up in the Bay Area and now think it's just as much of a cesspool as Lost Angeles and San Diego (traffic, crime, gangs, graffitti). My family is still in the BA and I don't understand what keeps them there.

Once I leave Lost Angeles (soon now), just like when I left the Bay Area many years ago, I will never come back. As to San Diego, traffic getting into/out of SD is just as horrendous as driving the 5 into/out of Orange County. The endless sprawl that is the OC going down the 5 has got to be one of the ugliest places on earth (excluding the beach towns, that is). About 20 years ago, an architect I knew said they should draw a ring around dowtown LA, nuke everything within a 150 mile radius, and start over. 20 years later, I'd say the same thing about San Francsico.

No really, tell us how you REALLY feel!

Just teasing you. I do understand your point of view.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

I must be in a different California. Lived in CA most of my life, grew up in the Bay Area and now think it's just as much of a cesspool as Lost Angeles and San Diego (traffic, crime, gangs, graffitti). My family is still in the BA and I don't understand what keeps them there.

Once I leave Lost Angeles (soon now), just like when I left the Bay Area many years ago, I will never come back. As to San Diego, traffic getting into/out of SD is just as horrendous as driving the 5 into/out of Orange County. The endless sprawl that is the OC going down the 5 has got to be one of the ugliest places on earth (excluding the beach towns, that is). About 20 years ago, an architect I knew said they should draw a ring around dowtown LA, nuke everything within a 150 mile radius, and start over. 20 years later, I'd say the same thing about San Francsico.

I live in a scenic area in the burbs with low crime, lots of parks and bike trails with beautiful views. We don't have regular jobs so we aren't out in traffic. During the day we have time to do things like hike in the Redwoods, visit the local lake with fountains and a rose garden, go to the beach, visit a planetarium, watch the hang gliders at Fort Funston, go to the Academy of Science or take a rocket boat on the Bay or one of about a thousand other fun things to do here.

On a dull normal day we walk the local trails with breath taking views once or twice and maybe go out to a cute Thai restaurant with great food for lunch. Life could be worse.

We've enjoyed vacations in place like La Jolla and Orange County. I could see living in a resort like condo complex near the beach all year long in either place, where someone else takes care of the pool and grounds. If you look at the online stats, I don't think it is too hard to avoid areas with gangs and high crime.

I don't see the cesspool part in any of the three, but we all have our own realities, so if you see that it is true for you.

 

[longranger]

Much of the real estate in orange county is priced in or near bubble territory. Anything with ocean view or prestige address is overpriced IMHO. Then again the same can be said about desirable homes in most attractive metropolitan areas, even those that do not feature an incredible year round climate.

For relative value in Socal you need to look a little inland in pockets that are just a little too far for long term work commutes to LA, OC or SD. With regards to Laguna Woods I have heard that some of the condos indeed do have taxes included with homeowners fees. Never have shopped there myself so I have no idea how common or rare such units are. For my $$ I would look more towards north San Diego county a few miles inland.

 

[Options]

I live in a scenic area in the burbs with low crime, lots of parks and bike trails with beautiful views. We don't have regular jobs so we aren't out in traffic. During the day we have time to do things like hike in the Redwoods, visit the local lake with fountains and a rose garden, go to the beach, visit a planetarium, watch the hang gliders at Fort Funston, go to the Academy of Science or take a rocket boat on the Bay or one of about a thousand other fun things to do here.

On a dull normal day we walk the local trails with breath taking views once or twice and maybe go out to a cute Thai restaurant with great food for lunch. Life could be worse.

We've enjoyed vacations in place like La Jolla and Orange County. I could see living in a resort like condo complex near the beach all year long in either place, where someone else takes care of the pool and grounds. If you look at the online stats, I don't think it is too hard to avoid areas with gangs and high crime.

I don't see the cesspool part in any of the three, but we all have our own realities, so if you see that it is true for you.

BA Reality:

1) The 101 anywhere north of SF way down past San Jose, any time of day;
2) Gangs, graffitti (none of which were there when I lived there);
3) Murders in SJ, east bay, on the peninsula (again, unheard of when I lived there);
4) Any drive through SF, from one end to the other;
5) Trendy, noisy, overpriced restaurants (only to be surpassed by Lost Angeles in their degree of uselessness), serving food that can't begin to compare to a well-prepared home-cooked meal;
6) Attractions of any kind--be they cultural or public--that invariably involve crowds of various proportions.
7) That godforsaken tech attitude (once again, non-existent when I grew up there).

You may love La Jolla and perhaps the OC beach cities (unless you like infinite unplanned, bland, hideous development, I'm thinking you don't mean anything east of the 405), but you've got to crawl on the 405 or drive through the nightmare that is the 5 to get there.

You're talking to someone who grew up in the BA, has family still there, and has lived in SoCal for the past 26 years. I know what I'm talking about. Of course if that's the kind of reality you can stomach, and lord know literally millions can and are, I say go for it and enjoy.

 

[Accidental Retiree]

Just thought I'd give an update on our search....I found some other real estate sites that stated the property tax is not included in the HOA for the co-ops at Laguna Woods. If that is true, which seems more likely, then it puts the cost of condo ownership, all expenses considered, on more of a par with the surrounding areas.

You are not currently living in a county, then, where you can use the Prop 90 property tax transfer between your current county and OC?

 

[daylatedollarshort]

BA Reality:

1) The 101 anywhere north of SF way down past San Jose, any time of day;
2) Gangs, graffitti (none of which were there when I lived there);
3) Murders in SJ, east bay, on the peninsula (again, unheard of when I lived there);
4) Any drive through SF, from one end to the other;
5) Trendy, noisy, overpriced restaurants (only to be surpassed by Lost Angeles in their degree of uselessness), serving food that can't begin to compare to a well-prepared home-cooked meal;
6) Attractions of any kind--be they cultural or public--that invariably involve crowds of various proportions.
7) That godforsaken tech attitude (once again, non-existent when I grew up there).

You may love La Jolla and perhaps the OC beach cities (unless you like infinite unplanned, bland, hideous development, I'm thinking you don't mean anything east of the 405), but you've got to crawl on the 405 or drive through the nightmare that is the 5 to get there.

You're talking to someone who grew up in the BA, has family still there, and has lived in SoCal for the past 26 years. I know what I'm talking about. Of course if that's the kind of reality you can stomach, and lord know literally millions can and are, I say go for it and enjoy.

I think life is different when you don't have to go to work or drive during rush hour, don't work in an office building, live in a low crime area, go to mom and pop ethnic restaurants with inexpensive food, can work at home from your house with the wooded back yard, with falcons in the Redwoods and wild turkeys roaming the neighborhood. I just don't see a lot of the negatives day to day you mention. But living in the burbs of a big city isn't for everyone. I am sure many people are happier living in the country or smaller cities.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

You are not currently living in a county, then, where you can use the Prop 90 property tax transfer between your current county and OC?

I am not sure if we will save much if anything transferring our property tax since we are downsizing from a house to a 2 bedroom condo.

 

[longranger]

Options I can not rationally disagree with most of your negative points about central and southern california. Unless you go rural or have a time machine where in the USA can you avoid high prices, traffic, crime etc.. in an area with nice climate, cultural activities, fine dining etc..

I am asking for myself and the many on this forum that live in areas that have the positives and problems you list. What areas do you suggest as alternatives.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Options I can not rationally disagree with most of your negative points about central and southern california. Unless you go rural or have a time machine where in the USA can you avoid high prices, traffic, crime etc.. in an area with nice climate, cultural activities, fine dining etc..

I am asking for myself and the many on this forum that live in areas that have the positives and problems you list. What areas do you suggest as alternatives.

For California, we found these lists are helpful -

Median home price by county -
DQNews - California Home Sale Activity by City Chart

Crime Index by City -
California Crime Index City Rank

American Cities with the Most Pleasant Weather -
The American Cities With the Most 'Pleasant' Weather - John Metcalfe - The Atlantic Cities

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Much of the real estate in orange county is priced in or near bubble territory. Anything with ocean view or prestige address is overpriced IMHO. Then again the same can be said about desirable homes in most attractive metropolitan areas, even those that do not feature an incredible year round climate.

For relative value in Socal you need to look a little inland in pockets that are just a little too far for long term work commutes to LA, OC or SD. With regards to Laguna Woods I have heard that some of the condos indeed do have taxes included with homeowners fees. Never have shopped there myself so I have no idea how common or rare such units are. For my $$ I would look more towards north San Diego county a few miles inland.

We still have to do our boots on the ground visit but DH is inclined to pay a bit more to live near the ocean where the temps are cooler. I just thought with Laguna Woods we could have the mild temps, the ocean proximity and low prices.

I have no idea on the property taxes being included or excluded then at Laguna Woods. I have read it both ways on the Internet.

We are having second thoughts about the 55+ restrictions in case our kids need to boomerang post college. Maybe Laguna Woods would be a better choice for us in 5 - 10 years from now.

 

[longranger]

Have a couple of friends who have purchased closer to the beach. Figure 600 to 800 K for a 1500 to 2000 square foot town home/condo depending on view and renovation needs.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Have a couple of friends who have purchased closer to the beach. Figure 600 to 800 K for a 1500 to 2000 square foot town home/condo depending on view and renovation needs.

I just meant within driving distance to the beach and we are downsizing to <1.5K sq ft. We've been getting rid of junk and watching Small House, Big Style on Hulu Plus to prepare. We're interested in having more free time and less stuff and house to take care of.

You have to keep in mind the median home price the Bay Area for a home or condo is $579K, and that includes areas with high crime rates and not so great schools, and usually nowhere near the beach for that price -

Bay Area home prices zoom in March; highest since Dec. 2007 - Kathleen Pender – Net Worth Plus

The median home price in San Francisco is now $937K. I know the prices you posted for a condo might seem crazy to a lot of people and they probably are compared to most of the country, but it still seems less crazy than here.

 

[Ready]

The endless sprawl that is the OC going down the 5 has got to be one of the ugliest places on earth (excluding the beach towns, that is).

Well, I can think of some really ugly places to live in this country that would make just about any part of Orange County look pretty darn good. I've lived in Orange County for over 20 years. I do live at the beach now, but previously lived inland in Rancho Santa Margarita, and I thought it was quite beautiful there.

As with any community, you have to take the good with the bad. The weather here is highly desirable - probably the best weather in the country. As a result, home prices are high and neighborhoods are very dense and crowded. That's the price you pay for living somewhere that is in high demand.

But now that I don't go to work every day, I find it to be quite different living here than when I had to commute to work. I can easily walk to lots of shops and restaurants, and I'm within five miles of Trader Joe's, Costco and Whole Foods. Within 10 miles I have world class shopping at South Coast Plaza or Fashion Island. So traffic really is a non-issue if you don't have to drive during the commuting hours.

There are some neighborhoods that are a bit old and tired looking - Garden Grove, Santa Ana, Anaheim, etc. However, the two retirement communities in this thread - Laguna Woods, and Leisure World Seal Beach, are two of the nicest places you could live in this area.

As for home values, I suspect that the prices of homes inside these communities are not all that different from surrounding communities. I would think the main reason to live in these places is for the social activities and commonality with others who are all 55+ and retired and likely looking to live around others in a similar situation. If that's not important to you, then I would look in some of the newer areas of Orange County - Aliso Viejo, Rancho Santa Margarita, Laguna Hills, Laguna Niguel, Foothill Ranch, Ladera Ranch. You won't find a bad neighborhood in any of these communities and the home prices are quite a bit less than the beach communities. All are going to be within about 30 minutes of the beaches.

 

[Accidental Retiree]

Well, I can think of some really ugly places to live in this country that would make just about any part of Orange County look pretty darn good. I've lived in Orange County for over 20 years. I do live at the beach now, but previously lived inland in Rancho Santa Margarita, and I thought it was quite beautiful there.

As with any community, you have to take the good with the bad. The weather here is highly desirable - probably the best weather in the country. As a result, home prices are high and neighborhoods are very dense and crowded. That's the price you pay for living somewhere that is in high demand.

But now that I don't go to work every day, I find it to be quite different living here than when I had to commute to work. I can easily walk to lots of shops and restaurants, and I'm within five miles of Trader Joe's, Costco and Whole Foods. Within 10 miles I have world class shopping at South Coast Plaza or Fashion Island. So traffic really is a non-issue if you don't have to drive during the commuting hours.

There are some neighborhoods that are a bit old and tired looking - Garden Grove, Santa Ana, Anaheim, etc. However, the two retirement communities in this thread - Laguna Woods, and Leisure World Seal Beach, are two of the nicest places you could live in this area.

As for home values, I suspect that the prices of homes inside these communities are not all that different from surrounding communities. I would think the main reason to live in these places is for the social activities and commonality with others who are all 55+ and retired and likely looking to live around others in a similar situation. If that's not important to you, then I would look in some of the newer areas of Orange County - Aliso Viejo, Rancho Santa Margarita, Laguna Hills, Laguna Niguel, Foothill Ranch, Ladera Ranch. You won't find a bad neighborhood in any of these communities and the home prices are quite a bit less than the beach communities. All are going to be within about 30 minutes of the beaches.

There are your boots on the ground, Daylatedollarshort! Ready is spot on.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

If that's not important to you, then I would look in some of the newer areas of Orange County - Aliso Viejo, Rancho Santa Margarita, Laguna Hills, Laguna Niguel, Foothill Ranch, Ladera Ranch. You won't find a bad neighborhood in any of these communities and the home prices are quite a bit less than the beach communities. All are going to be within about 30 minutes of the beaches.

I'm on it, Ready. Thanks for the list. We are really into hiking so we'd rather live near a canyon with trees or some other kind of hiking spot but still be within 10 miles of so of the beach.

 

[RetiredAndFree]

I'm on it, Ready. Thanks for the list. We are really into hiking so we'd rather live near a canyon with trees or some other kind of hiking spot but still be within 10 miles of so of the beach.

I'm not going to suggest that OC rivals Marin County for hiking and beauty, or even the Santa Monica Rec Area in L.A., but you may be surprised by how much wilderness exists here, much of which overlooks the coast. Hiking clubs abound, as do running, biking, and kayaking groups, the result of having weather that allows one to play outside all year long.

 

[longranger]

Have to agree that OC has some really nice hiking areas, not to mention some excellent albeit crowded surf breaks, areas to paddle board etc.. Beach and recreation are quick drives if you are avoiding commute hours. Agree with all of the communities recommended by Ready.

Climate is highly dependent on how far you are from the coast. Within half a mile or so of the pacific many summer days stay overcast with top temps of the low 70s. Just 5 miles inland the high temps are often 20 degrees higher or more and bright sunshine. So you can choose your microclimate to an extent.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Someone who lives in Laguna Woods emailed me that for the co-ops property taxes are in the HOA fees, so those seem like quite a deal for the area, 55+ housing or not.

It is good to know about the hiking. That is one thing we weren't too sure about. I appreciate all the help here from the OC locals.

I'll keep you posted on our house hunt. Thanks again.

 

[Ready]

My understanding is that the co-ops are acquired via stock certificate, where the condos are acquired via grant deed. Since the co-ops have shared ownership, I would assume they have found a way to keep the property taxes from being reassessed due to the change in ownership of an individual member of the co-op.

For the condos, each time an owner sells their unit, the State reassesses property taxes based on the purchase price. The tax is slightly above 1% in most areas of Orange County.

Beyond that, I'm not an expert on the differences between a co-op and a condo. I would imagine there are a number of financial considerations to be evaluated before making a decision which one is better for you.

 

[longranger]

One other consideration. Laguna woods has many units for rent. Renting for 6 months would give ample opportunity to access the community and compare it to surrounding choices.

 

[daylatedollarshort]

Yes, renting at first sounds like a great idea to see if we fit in. We still have kids to get launched and not looking like they will need to boomerang before we could buy.