Countries offering retirement visas

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

I don't know, coldnose. I contacted HSBC recently and they would not deal with me as I am working and living in Azerbaijan at the moment. Vanguard would not open a brokerage account for me for the same reason I called them back and said I was retired. Then they did. Our government is making life difficult for us expats. I have read that the increase in renunciation of citizenship is simply due to onerous banking regulations. Expect more.

 

[Kabekew]

An alternative if you're below pension or social-security age and need to meet a "guaranteed fixed income" requirement for your retirement visa, is to put money into a "payout" mutual fund like Vanguard's ( http://investor.vanguard.com/mutual-funds/managed-payout/ ). That fund sends you a fixed amount per month. A statement from Vanguard attesting that will also probably qualify as the "bank statement" a lot of them require.

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

A statement from Vanguard attesting that will also probably qualify as the "bank statement" a lot of them require.

That would be nice, but those web pages seem to explicitly say an in-country bank.

I hope our members on-the-ground in the P.I. and Peru can clarify for us.

 

[kramer]

Same problem here.

[/LIST]
Kramer, if you are out there today, are you aware of any PRA Designated Bank that will accept an American client?

To my knowledge, no Philippines (PI) bank will reject an American client. This is still playing out, but PI is currently negotiating one of those country-wide FATCA agreements with the USA so that the banks will report FATCA stuff to this PI entity which will then forward all the info to the USA Treasury Department. The USA links are way too strong in the PI to not allow American clients. Also, most of the rich and foreigners here use US-dollar accounts. They even have special protection under the law that Peso accounts do not have (more secrecy).

The PRA-designated (PRA = Philippines Retirement Authority) banks are about 7 banks, a few are in the top 8 Filipino banks by size. Basically, you buy CD's denominated in dollars with the bond money you have put up for the visa. The interest rate is lower than you would otherwise get in an open account, so include this cost in your calculations. The interest goes into a regular passbook account that you can spend.

The PI FDIC equivalent, called the PDIC, is well funded but only insures money up to 500,000 pesos (about $11,500). I have $20,000 in one of these accounts so if the bank went broke I would lose the difference. I just tried to choose a strong bank. Also, I could have split it, $10,000 at 2 banks, but I just didn't want to bother.

And I keep my other bank accounts (one dollar account and one peso account) at a different bank for this reason of low PDIC insurance.

Since this visa put my total overseas holdings at over $10,000, I now file an FBAR each year. For someone with a simple setup like me, it is only about 2 hours total time after you have done it the first time. It is all done online.

Banking is pretty easy here in the PI, I never have to wait in line, and everything is in English. I just write $5,000 checks on a USA checking account to fund my local dollar account when I am at the bank to make a withdrawal -- it clears in about 17 business days and there is no fee. For security reasons, I don't have an ATM card associated with my dollar account, just my local peso account. I also use USA-based ATM cards sometimes to get Pesos. I have diversified myself with respect to banking and sources of funds.

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

Thanks, Kramer! There is nothing like the voice of experience!

This is why this thread is so valuable.

Now if NYEXPAT would chime in again....

 

[z-d-g]

Does anyone here have an exhaustive list of the retirement (or equivalent) visa requirements for every country on Earth? If not, because the issue is of tremendous interest personally, would anyone be willing to help me maintain one? I'd be happy to do a majority (if not all) of the research. I just didn't want to start on this only to find out we already had one.

What I'm thinking is I could do the research to create a wiki like database of each country's requirements which the community here could constantly update as countries changed their requirements (or we found useful loopholes).

Any interest or waste of time?

 

[coldnose]

Does anyone here have an exhaustive list of the retirement (or equivalent) visa requirements for every country on Earth? If not, because the issue is of tremendous interest personally, would anyone be willing to help me maintain one? I'd be happy to do a majority (if not all) of the research. I just didn't want to start on this only to find out we already had one.

What I'm thinking is I could do the research to create a wiki like database of each country's requirements which the community here could constantly update as countries changed their requirements (or we found useful loopholes).

Any interest or waste of time?

Not a bad idea, but there are lots of variables that might make it difficult.

For instance:
1. Single vs. dependents
2. Country of citizenship
3. Visa requirements based on time planning to stay in country

I'm sure there are more factors that might make such an undertaking useful for some, but not so useful for others. Wikitravel is usually a pretty good source of visa requirement information, but their information is more from the standpoint of people wanting to visit short term.

 

[papadad111]

The data changes frequently. You would also want to include minimum income and minimum investment and lockup period as many visas for retirees require some level of investment or at least proof that "final expenses" can eventually be paid without being a burden on the state. The list of desired countries can probably be narrowed down to less than 50. Probably more like a top 20 ... That are desirable places that offer permanent residence that are affordable etc.

And there are plenty of grey areas for those not truly full time residents. ... Eg. Get a 90 day tourist visa, Pop over the border to neighboring country for a weekend, and re enter for another 90 days. That's 6 months. I know guys doing that between 3 or 4 countries for years.

I also think your population of actual users of the info is relatively small. Maybe 1 in 100 in the USA - plenty of talkers about retiring abroad but few actually pull the trigger and do it for years at a time. I would guess Europeans may have a higher percentage but not by a lot.

This is my perspective having lived abroad for about 3 decades.


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[BTravlin]

Here are the requirements for a Residente Permanente visa from Mexico as of the last rewrite in Nov, 2012:

Residente Permanente (Permanent Resident)

If you intend to apply for a Residente Permanente card you can do so by meeting a number of criteria. These include, but are not limited to:
A retired person
Owning property worth a certain amount of money in Mexico
Possessing a certain amount of investments in Mexico
Other categories
As with the Residente Temporal you can hire an immigration specialist to assist with your paperwork; or, you can attempt to complete the paperwork on your own and then follow the governmental procedures. If you are applying for a Residente Permanente status you must prove an income of 20,000 days of the Mexican minimum wage in the Distrito Federal in investments (as described under Residente Temporal) or a monthly employment or pension income of 500 times the minimum wage. This equates to U.S. $2,676.00 per month of income for an individual; $4014.00 for a couple (based on a $12.10 Peso/Dollar exchange rate).

The fee for this visa is $3,815 pesos (U.S. $299.57 depending on the exchange rate). Again, as with the Residente Temporal, you might also be able to use ‘points.’

To Obtain a New Residente Temporal or Residente Permanente Card or Visa

If you are moving to Mexico, and plan to live there for more than 180 days, you must apply for a Residente Temporal or a Residente Permanente card. Both of these cards require that you first visit a Mexican Consulate in the United States to begin the process.
At the Mexican Consulate - There are a number of documents you must present (please verify with authorities). These include, but are not limited to:
Passport and passport copies
Passport photos that meet the requirements
Proof of income - original and copies
Required fees
At the consulate’s office it will be determined which of the cards you may apply for and you will fill out the application. This is mostly based on your monthly income.

Visit an INM office in Mexico at the border - Once the consulate has given you the necessary paperwork you will then go to the border. It is necessary to obtain an FMM (Forma Migratoria Múltiple, aka Tourist Card) in order to remain legally in Mexico until your Resident card is ready. This FMM is only good for 30 days. If you do not have your completed paperwork processed and submitted to the government office within the 30 days you will be required to pay a fine as well as start over with the entire process.

 

[seraphim]

No experience here, but while perusing a TV show, the country Belize came up in conversation. As I recall, English is the official language and all that was needed was a $25k bank account. Needs researching if anyone's interested


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[modhatter]

Was wondering about air conditioning in the Philippians. How common is it and what about the cost of electricity to run it? Is it hot and muggy all year? Would it be comparable to southern Florida or hotter? Is there much of a savings living there if you want to imitate the American middle class life style, as far as residence and neighborhoods, furniture etc.

What about healthcare there?

 

[NYEXPAT]

NYEXPAT, there is a serious problem here, under Documents Required:
Banks in other countries are refusing to create accounts for Americans because of the onerous reporting requirements imposed by our gummint. You will not have this problem, being married to a Peruvian. Not everyone is so fortunate.

Are you aware of any bank in Peru that will accept Americans for an account?

Any bank here will open an account for an American "who has residency". Once your papers are approved by DIGEMIN. Sorry for the delay, I have been exploring the high jungle for possible retirement location.

 

[NYEXPAT]

Would having account with a bank like HSBC, which has branches in Peru, The Philippines and the US suffice? I'm not sure if having an account in one country equates to being able to open an account or do transfers automatically in another, but it seems like it should.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hsbc#mediaviewer/File:HSBC_World.svg

Just a note, HSBC has pulled out of Peru and I understand they will be leaving SA entirely. There assets here were sold to a Colombian Bank (GNB, I think is the name).

 

[ItDontMeanAThing]

What I'm thinking is I could do the research to create a wiki like database of each country's requirements which the community here could constantly update as countries changed their requirements (or we found useful loopholes).

Easier would be a page of links to: 1) For the official requirements - the relevant pages of of government's immigration departments, and 2) For the actual requirements - the relevant local expat sub-forums.

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

Any bank here will open an account for an American "who has residency". Once your papers are approved by DIGEMIN. Sorry for the delay, I have been exploring the high jungle for possible retirement location.

Don't you have to have the bank account before you can get residency, as a qualification? Just curious. Thanks for the info, by the way.

 

[Ed_The_Gypsy]

Sorry for the delay, I have been exploring the high jungle for possible retirement location.

Hmmm. Are the continuous care facilities better under the canopy?

 

[kramer]

Was wondering about air conditioning in the Philippians. How common is it and what about the cost of electricity to run it? Is it hot and muggy all year? Would it be comparable to southern Florida or hotter? Is there much of a savings living there if you want to imitate the American middle class life style, as far as residence and neighborhoods, furniture etc.

What about healthcare there?

Almost all foreigners have air conditioning, at least in their bedroom, some house-wide. I have a 1.5 horsepower AC in my bedroom, although I only use it during the hot season. Personally, I love warmer weather and it was one of the reasons for my relocation and I work out outside almost daily. But I almost always use a fan except in the cool season. The cost of electricity is quite high -- I don't have the numbers handy but it is at least 50% more than the USA.

Weather varies throughout the Philippines. I am a couple hours north of Manila and an hour away from the beach (I hate Manila itself, too crowded, run-down, etc.). But these are the seasons for this part of the country:

Cool Season: December to February
Hot Season: mid-March to mid-June
Wet Season: July to early September

No, it is not hot and muggy here all year -- in fact, lots of visiting friends, especially from Thailand, comment on how nice the weather can be. And the hot season itself is dry and has lower humidity (like 45% to 55% during the day). During the Wet Season the humidity can be high, but those are the coolest days of the year (month with the lowest average high is the rainy month of August). And the weather is pretty predictable -- for instance, you can predict the high temperature on any given day a year in advance within a few degrees. In a typical year, the very hottest day of the year will reach 98 degrees but almost every day in the hot season is in the low 90's.

The transport infrastructure is not very good, at all, and there is no urban beauty in the Philippines. I got fiber installed to my door (10 Megabits/second internet same speed up/down, extensive cable TV including mostly US channels and 18 HD channels, about $90/month for the bundle). Cell phone is super cheap but really only good for texting, talking quality is bad, 3G available in most places, LTE being rolled out.

Re: Savings for living like an American -- No, I don't think so when you consider everything. I just bought a beautiful Sony big screen TV with surround sound, and it cost me 55% more here than the USA. Groceries that a foreigner typically buys cost more and cars cost more. I drive a scooter around town and that is cheap ($1500 brand new for quality brand). Labor is quite cheap and your biggest savings will be on rent. Health care outside of Manila is mediocre, at best, but at least everything is in English. I had a blood test done last week and there is one spurious reading so I am going to visit a specialist in a few hours -- I have never met him but he will speak fluent English and the office visit will be under $15.

I said this many years ago and it is still true, especially after ObamaCare: If you are looking for the lowest quality-adjusted cost of living -- live close to a Walmart in a low cost area of the USA. Then again, my girlfriend in the USA would not be a beautiful, slender 24 years old Filipina. We all make our choices.

 

[ItDontMeanAThing]

Was wondering about air conditioning in the Philippians. How common is it and what about the cost of electricity to run it? Is it hot and muggy all year? Would it be comparable to southern Florida or hotter? Is there much of a savings living there if you want to imitate the American middle class life style, as far as residence and neighborhoods, furniture etc.

What about healthcare there?

Unless you buy imported goods, there are few domestic products or services which allow one a life style comparable to the American middle class, though there are many stupid and/or shoddy substitutes. The cost of such imported goods means Americans from the middle class can't afford them.

Most assessments of the country's healthcare either ignore or are unaware that the nurses are the second rate students from a third rate national education system. The Philippine education system churns out nurses. The best and the brightest take jobs in other English speaking countries so they can send money home to their families.

I lived in the Phils for 17 months as my first expat experience. Left in March 2010. Here are the blog posts about my decision to leave:
Phils: Stay or Go Part 1 | Four Letter Nerd
Only the last 2 paragraphs of Phils: Stay or Go Part 2 | Four Letter Nerd
Leaving the Philippines | Four Letter Nerd
Leaving the Philippines – The Reasons | Four Letter Nerd

Finally, something to ponder. When expats announce on the local forum they're leaving, the response is a little bit of good-byes and well wishes and a huge spew of 'he wasn't tough enough', 'he couldn't take it', etc. Think about living long term in a country where one has to be tough enough to tolerate it. That's tolerate, not enjoy.

 

[NYEXPAT]

Don't you have to have the bank account before you can get residency, as a qualification? Just curious. Thanks for the info, by the way.

No, you do not need the account until after your papers are approved and you need to start depositing the $1,000.00 a month.

 

[NYEXPAT]

Hmmm. Are the continuous care facilities better under the canopy?

Actually, they do not exist here, but with the twins ( YW 25 y/o sisters who are nurses) I do not anticipate needing more. BTW, My DaD, 96 has been living in one in Florida for almost 20 Years ( 250k down and $3,200/mth exp.) and the only time he has set foot in the care facility is to have lunch in the restaurant.

 

[Lancelot]

I lived in the Phils for 17 months as my first expat experience. Left in March 2010.

Interesting blog about the Phils. I like it there but I've never lived there; its basically my escape from the craziness of Songkran

(Traditional lunar Thai New Year, around April 13. The locals go nuts and drown every one with water, regardless of how they are dressed or want to participate or not...)

At least you gave it a go +1

 

[eta2020]

Tax regime for non-habitual residents - Living in Portugal

Tax free 10 years in beautiful European Country.

 

[ER1970]

Tax regime for non-habitual residents - Living in Portugal

Tax free 10 years in beautiful European Country.

The site states:

Competitive advantages:
For a period of 10 years, taxation related to IRS (personal income tax) on labour income in Portugal is at a fixed rate of 20%
No double taxation for pensions or for employment and self-employment income obtained abroad

This doesn't help for retirees who are unlikely to gain labor income in Portugal. Plus, their pensions/SS/capital gains obtained from the US are still subject to US taxes, no?

 

[nun]

Have people seriously looked into taxation, FICA, FATCA and investing while a US citizen living abroad? Maybe the tax compliance with a retirement visa in places like Thailand is minimal and all you have to worry about are US taxes, but those things need to be researched.

Many people retire from the US to Europe and vis a versa and the tax compliance issues are complex.

Health insurance and whether to continue paying Medicare are also important factors. And of course there's family, friends and cultural/lifestyle issues.

 

[eta2020]

The site states:



This doesn't help for retirees who are unlikely to gain labor income in Portugal. Plus, their pensions/SS/capital gains obtained from the US are still subject to US taxes, no?

You are always subject to US taxes. If you live in Europe you are also subject to taxes of European Country where you reside. But you don't have to pay any state tax and European real estate taxes are usually very small. Plus European countries provide inexpensive medical insurance for its residents. Good thing if you retire before 65....

It is exceptional to reside tax free in European Country (similar to Costa Rica or Panama).

Portugal provides exceptional quality of life and Medical facilities to its residents. This is not Philipines.