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Re: live longer
Old 09-10-2006, 04:06 PM   #21
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Re: live longer

Quote:
Originally Posted by AltaRed
There is no data that says a marathon runner is more 'fit' than a walker who gets a certain minimum level of exercise every day, e.g. a 1 hour brisk walk. The medical profession says time and time again that it matters more that a person gets some minimum level of activity than to achieve competitive levels.
Alta, allow me a small clarification because I think your post might cause some confusion. Marathon type training does indeed result in a higher level of fitness (aerobic capacity, peak performance achieved, etc .). I think what you may mean is that even extreme fitness does not result in significantly more health benefits than lower intensity activity such as a brisk walk for 30-40 minutes most days (e.g. diabetes, mortality, stroke and heart risk, etc.).

So, while fitness is improved by intense training, 95% of the health benefits of such conditioning can be achieved by much lower intensity exercise, as you point out. Hope that helps.
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Re: live longer
Old 09-10-2006, 04:40 PM   #22
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Re: live longer

the body is very simple in the sense that we can only do whatever it is we need to do and no more.As we adapt to new levels of endurance and strength those levels now become our norm.Cardio is strengthing the heart like any other muscle.We need to keep taking our heart to new levels inorder to make it stronger and more efficiant than the level it is at.The level we take it to depends on our reasons for doing so.Lance Armstrong is one of the highest levels but thats a level none of us need or maybe can even attain .To get the heart to each new plateau requires pushing ourselves aerobically to new and more enduring levels.It does not happen or go beyond what was needed to take that 30 minute walk at 3 miles an hour even if you walk every day for the rest of your life.you need new challenges and new stresses.That new level you attain is only there as long as you keep pushing to that level.Cardio effects can diminish back in as little as 2 weeks when the stresses are reduced and the heart goes back to the reduced level of performance thats need at this lower level..
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Re: live longer
Old 09-10-2006, 05:24 PM   #23
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Re: live longer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich_in_Tampa
Alta, allow me a small clarification because I think your post might cause some confusion. Marathon type training does indeed result in a higher level of fitness (aerobic capacity, peak performance achieved, etc .). I think what you may mean is that even extreme fitness does not result in significantly more health benefits than lower intensity activity such as a brisk walk for 30-40* minutes most days (e.g. diabetes, mortality, stroke and heart risk, etc.).

So, while fitness is improved by intense training, 95% of the health benefits of such conditioning can be achieved by much lower intensity exercise, as you point out. Hope that helps.
Yes, thank you, you clarified that very well. That is precisely what I meant.

And to cube_rat, yes, Lance did it for personal ego. No one pushes the limits without it being for bragging rights and ego. From all the reading I have done, there is no clear evidence that the Lance's of the world live longer.
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Re: live longer
Old 09-10-2006, 05:31 PM   #24
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Re: live longer

Quote:
Originally Posted by AltaRed
Yes, thank you, you clarified that very well. That is precisely what I meant.

And to cube_rat, yes, Lance did it for personal ego. No one pushes the limits without it being for bragging rights and ego. From all the reading I have done, there is no clear evidence that the Lance's of the world live longer.
So that classifies Olympic competitors/elite althletes as egomaniacs. Okay, now I understand.
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Re: live longer
Old 09-10-2006, 05:47 PM   #25
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Re: live longer

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Re: live longer
Old 09-10-2006, 08:31 PM   #26
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Re: live longer

Quote:
Originally Posted by AltaRed
No one pushes the limits without it being for bragging rights and ego.

I’ve been a competitive runner for over 25 years. I’ve found that competition provides me with additional motivation to keep running and to stay fit. If “bragging rights and ego” helps motivate you to keep exercising, I say that’s a good thing. Everyone is different, use whatever works for you.
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Re: live longer
Old 09-10-2006, 09:46 PM   #27
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Re: live longer

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmpi

I’ve been a competitive runner for over 25 years. I’ve found that competition provides me with additional motivation to keep running and to stay fit. If “bragging rights and ego” helps motivate you to keep exercising, I say that’s a good thing. Everyone is different, use whatever works for you.
Fair enough, I don't disagree everyone has their own motivations. But the point that started this was the implication that taking fitness to each new level inferred living longer. It simply doesn't work that way. It doesn't take reaching the top decile in competitiveness to get to the 90% solution as Rich said.
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Re: live longer
Old 09-10-2006, 10:08 PM   #28
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Re: live longer

Quote:
Originally Posted by AltaRed
Fair enough, I don't disagree everyone has their own motivations. But the point that started this was the implication that taking fitness to each new level inferred living longer. It simply doesn't work that way. It doesn't take reaching the top decile in competitiveness to get to the 90% solution as Rich said.
I don't think there is a relationship or formula that correlates amount and intensity of exercise to lifespan. That said. Go to the park, and find a runner and a walker. I think you'll find the average runner is healthier (lower blood pressure, lower cholesterol, less heart disease, etc) than the average walker.
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Re: live longer
Old 09-10-2006, 10:11 PM   #29
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Re: live longer

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmpi
I don't think there is a relationship or formula that correlates amount and intensity of exercise to lifespan.
The biggest difference is between no exercise and moderate exercise.

Another aspect of the MacArthur Study looked at how twins fared in relation to their aerobic exercise habits. Aerobics blew genetics away. Individuals who walked briskly or jogged for 30 minutes just six times a month had a 40 percent lower risk of dying than their twins who did not exercise.

Edit:

Here's the study: Relationship of leisure-time physical activity and mortality: the Finnish twin cohort.

The hazard ratio for death adjusted for age and sex was 0.71 (95% confidence interval [CI], 0.62-0.81) in occasional exercisers and 0.57 (95% CI, 0.45-0.74) in conditioning exercisers, compared with those who were sedentary (Pfor trend <.001). Among the twin pairs who were healthy at baseline and discordant for death (n=434), the odds ratio for death was 0.66 (95% CI, 0.46-0.94) in occasional exercisers and 0.44 (95% CI, 0.23-0.83) in conditioning exercisers compared with those who were sedentary (P for trend, .005). The beneficial effect of physical activity remained after controlling for other predictors of mortality.
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Re: live longer
Old 09-11-2006, 03:29 AM   #30
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Re: live longer

Key word is walked briskly.Walking after a certain speed is grossly inefficiant and can be great cardio training,thats why we are* more comfortable as well as dont look so dorky when we break out into a run.For most of us we need to get above 4-5 mph walking to be in the aerobic range of running.Very very few people ever do it at that level who use walking as their main exercise.Most people walk normally at a 2.5-3.5 pace that i witness at our local jogging path.
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Re: live longer
Old 09-11-2006, 03:37 AM   #31
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Re: live longer

Also the term fit is a big catchall that means whatever you want it to.Life expectancy is more genetic than anything else.I FOR ONE ALREADY SPENT MORE TIME EXERCISING THAN IT PROBLEY ADDED TIME TO MY LIFE.Yeah maybe we can extend it a little bit out by eating right and exercise but for the most part genetically our die is cast.So the term fit really means to me being able to do the things you want to do at the level you want to do them and no more.Lance armstrong may have high cholestrohl,can we say he isnt fit?He may not be considered in great health with certain factors not in normal ranges but he is certainly fit.
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Re: live longer
Old 09-11-2006, 12:19 PM   #32
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Re: live longer

My "father-in-law" has just been diagnosed with lung cancer. Inoperable, golf-ball-sized tumor. He's getting chemo and radiation at the same time -- a delaying tactic at best.

His wife of 56 years is deeply depressed and almost non-functional. His children are beside themselves. It's torture for him and everyone who loves him, and everyone who loves anyone who loves him.

I know you've heard it a thousand times, but in case the thousand-and-first is the one that does the trick...

STOP. SMOKING. NOW.
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Re: live longer
Old 09-11-2006, 12:30 PM   #33
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Re: live longer

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Originally Posted by Caroline
STOP.* SMOKING.* NOW.
As if that's gonna change someone's behavior.

My father can quit whenever he wants... why, he's done it hundreds of times!
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Re: live longer
Old 09-11-2006, 12:43 PM   #34
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Re: live longer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caroline
My "father-in-law" has just been diagnosed with lung cancer. Inoperable, golf-ball-sized tumor. He's getting chemo and radiation at the same time -- a delaying tactic at best. I know you've heard it a thousand times, but in case the thousand-and-first is the one that does the trick...

STOP. SMOKING. NOW.
Caroline,

I'm terribly sorry for your family's ordeal.

I work in a cancer center. Outside the entry on the way to the parking ramp is a small area for smoking, out of the way, kind of like a leper colony. It is always in use. Amazing to me. What a powerful addiction. Sad.
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Re: live longer
Old 09-11-2006, 01:49 PM   #35
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Re: live longer

(quote)My father can quit whenever he wants... why, he's done it hundreds of times! (/quote)

LOL! I hear you on this one, Nords -- I've given up sugar and lost that extra 10 lbs. about a grillion times... I keep finding it again, though.

Still, you never know! My dad quit a number of times, but the last one, 25 years ago, finally "took" and he's been off 'em ever since. He didn't do it for health reasons, but for frugality's sake. "When a carton got up to $5 out at the base I figured I'd had enough."

His method was to wean himself off -- light one and smoke half, then put it out, then put one in his mouth but not light it... and so on.

My mother quit about 15 years ago -- went cold turkey. She just "made a decision" one day and that was it. She still had a few old packs around the house, but says they never tempted her because she'd made up her mind about it.

I'd like to think that hope springs eternal, and that if one method doesn't work, there's another one out there that might. And with my FIL's diagnosis, I am TRULY glad that my parents didn't let their first failures convince them that they shouldn't keep trying. I told them so this weekend.

You smokers out there -- keep trying, you can DO it!!!!! Your kids will thank you for it, and you'll be around to say "you're welcome."

P.S. Thanks, Rich_in_Tampa, for the kind word.
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Re: live longer
Old 09-11-2006, 03:23 PM   #36
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Re: live longer

Very sorry to hear that, Caroline.

I'll never forget rushing from a funeral of a young friend who died of smoking-related cancer to a big band gig. It was surreal to watch some of the players smoking during break. I wanted to make a scene, but I didn't.
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Re: live longer
Old 09-11-2006, 07:02 PM   #37
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Re: live longer

I went to a local restaurant years ago when I was pregnant with my daughter. I was glad to see that they had recently converted to a completely smoke-free environment. Right behind me was a group of middle-age ladies who were complaining loudly that they were accostomed to smoking at lunch, they were outraged at the change, and so on. One woman was saying "All of that smoking causes cancer stuff is just b.s. ... "

My mom quit smoking for years, then she started smoking again and had a stroke within a few months. She quit again, but had a fatal stroke about a year after the first one. She was 68. My sisters both smoke and they don't want to hear that mom died of smoking. They will go to extreme lengths to deny it. There's no use trying to talk to them about it. One of my sisters has a bad heart, too. There's denial for you.

I don't know if I will live longer--my dad just died at age 72--but at least I can stay as healthy as possible as long as I can. I don't smoke, I do exercise, and I am losing weight.
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Re: live longer
Old 09-12-2006, 03:15 PM   #38
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Re: live longer

Just got word that my father-in-law's lung cancer has spread to his liver -- they're suspending chemo and radiation (after only 5 days of treatment) and calling in hospice.

I have (thankfully) no experience with this, and don't want to ask too many questions of MIL -- she's on the edge as it is. What little I learn is 4th hand.

I know each case is different, but does anybody out there have the misfortune of knowing what this might mean, generally speaking? If they end treatment, are we talking months, weeks...??

Thanks for any guidance here...

PS: and in case I didn't already say it... stop smoking, y'all. today. right now.
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Re: live longer
Old 09-12-2006, 03:24 PM   #39
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Re: live longer

My father was diagnosed with serious lung cancer at age 87. He opted to forego any treatment and got hospice instead. He was gone in 6 weeks. The last 2 weeks he spent a lot of time under the morphine, but he perked up when my daughter (his eldest grandchild) came to visit, and died later that day.

I'm very sorry, Caroline. I wish strength and closeness to your whole family.

EDIT My father was a smoker, too, but quit in his late 60s/early 70s (hard to remember...he quit so many times). He had a very bad case of pneumonia the year before, and we later suspected the cancer may have started to grow at that time.
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Re: live longer
Old 09-12-2006, 03:26 PM   #40
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Re: live longer

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Originally Posted by Caroline
I know each case is different, but does anybody out there have the misfortune of knowing what this might mean, generally speaking?* If they end treatment, are we talking months, weeks...??* *
For medicare, hospice means...

they must be certified by a physician to be terminally ill with a life expectancy of six months or less. While they no longer receive treatment toward a cure, they require close medical and supportive care which a hospice can provide. Hospice care under Medicare includes both home care and inpatient care, when needed, and a variety of services not otherwise covered by Medicare. The focus is on care, not cure. Emphasis is on helping the person to make the most of each hour and each day of remaining life by providing comfort and relief from pain.

- I'm so sorry about this, I remember going through similar issues with my father
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