Living With Less. A Lot Less.

[sanfanciscotreat]

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Originally Posted by rodi Thanks for posting that link. The 7th picture cracked me up. A yurt living family in a super desolate desert had some things you'd expect (wood fired stove, for example) and some things that surprised me (satellite dish and tv.) The 6th picture - a family in Texas, didn't have any tv's... that surprised me.

You missed it. There is a TV in the left rear of the photo.

[sheehs1]

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Originally Posted by Texas Proud I also think this article is a self promotion of his new business... He said he has designed the small living space he is in now and is going to try and sell everybody else on the same thing... "Buy from me because I know better"..... is what I think he is saying...

I picked up on that too.
Self promoter? Follow me so I can get richer?
He lost a bit of credibility from me after I read that.

Otherwise, most of his message is common sense and really not all that new, except to the degree he has taken it. I would not be happy in 420 sq ft. No way! I would feel claustrophobic.

Each to his own. Some might be happy with their clutter or distressed at getting rid of it.

[daylatedollarshort]

I think it would be cool to live in a smaller space and have modular furniture like this -

http://faircompanies.com/videos/view...m-into-2-or-3/

NYC "Swiss Army knife" apartment's walls open, fold & slide - videos - *faircompanies

[Sarah in SC]

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Originally Posted by Accidental Retiree Me, too! A few years ago, my Texas niece and SIL visited us for a week. We had had no TV for a few years; it broke and we just didn't care enough to replace it. My cheapo Mr. Coffee had just broken down, and I hadn't replaced it yet. Worst of all, we were still using the microwave we had bought back in oh, 1980. When my SIL told my brother about the situation here, he asked her, "What are they, Quakers or something?" We are now known as the family's California Amish.

AR, this is a prize-worthy story!

[ERD50]

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Originally Posted by obgyn65 You want my honest opinion, ERD?

I would think you would know me well enough by now. Why ask such a question? [satire] Sure, give me your dishonest opinion![/satire]

I have no interest in BS (other than as entertainment). So, what do you think, honestly?

Just a reminder, I have no problem with the message itself, it was the delivery that rubbed me the wrong way.

-ERD50

[UserRequested]

I don't begrudge the folks who have and like lots of stuff. Neither do I mind if someone enjoys the spartan life. But don't preach to me that one is better than the other. Sounds too much like someone who just "got" religion and wants to save my soul.
I have stuff and I enjoy most of it. I may have stuff that is now surplus to my requirements, but so what. Ain't no skin off anyone's nose but mine

[Texas Proud]

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Originally Posted by sheehs1 I picked up on that too. Self promoter? Follow me so I can get richer? He lost a bit of credibility from me after I read that. Otherwise, most of his message is common sense and really not all that new, except to the degree he has taken it. I would not be happy in 420 sq ft. No way! I would feel claustrophobic. Each to his own. Some might be happy with their clutter or distressed at getting rid of it.

I agree that 420 is a bit small, but a lot of independent living has places this small...

My mom lives in about 900 sq ft and I think it is just fine... you could cut it down a bit, but IMO, why

I would also not want to have to keep moving things around to do things... IOW, when it is time to go to bed, I just want to go do bed... not move something, pull my bed down etc. etc... and do the reverse the next morning...

As for getting rid of things.... I am starting to look at doing that a bit myself... there are a lot of things laying around that we do not use... so might as well get rid of them....

[donheff]

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Originally Posted by kevink This take-down of the original bit of narcissism is much more wortwhile than the original, IMHO: It Would Be Great if Millionaires Would Not Lecture Us on 'Living With Less'

This one does capture the essence of why a lot of people react negatively to Hill's opinion piece. A couple of lines:

"Aha! All it takes is a leisurely decade or so of world travel with "Olga, an Andorran beauty" to come to the conclusion that less is more. Make a note, average Americans..."

"The problem here is not the message. The problem is the messenger. More specifically, it is the messenger using his own life as supporting evidence for the message...to say to the average American, "My journey through the perils of great wealth has bestowed me with wisdom that is directly applicable to you" is simply false."

[JoeWras]

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Originally Posted by jags I don't begrudge the folks who have and like lots of stuff. Neither do I mind if someone enjoys the spartan life. But don't preach to me that one is better than the other. Sounds too much like someone who just "got" religion and wants to save my soul. I have stuff and I enjoy most of it. I may have stuff that is now surplus to my requirements, but so what. Ain't no skin off anyone's nose but mine

But I'm not so sure he got religion. So it is worse. It is the preacher who is having a fling with the secretary on the side. That fling is another business to consume his time. (More stuff.)

The pattern I see from these guys -- from nobodys to Really Big Names -- is that they preach, and then ignore their own advice, usually through travel. Travel is "stuff" of a different kind and has a huge earth impact -- if that's what you are preaching.

Oh sure, they buy carbon credits. But what about those consumables at the 5 star hotel you failed to mention? Blah, blah. Meanwhile, the offset trees being planted are being cut down and mulched, with the mulch giving off gasses. Did that credit really sequester the carbon? Not trying to get political here, just saying if you really want to preach no-earth-impact, stay in your 400 sq. ft. and do a lot of walking and gardening. Invite your new found friends to start hoeing the earth with you. They should ride bicycles to your garden, BTW. Hope you didn't serve fine wine. Wine can be very resource intensive.

[Milton]

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Originally Posted by ERD50 Who is this guy to tell me how many dishes or CDs is the 'right' amount? Am I some little baby who can't decide that for myself? ... I'm amazed that people see any value in this sort of thing. Can't they think for themselves? I just don't get it.

(Like me), you probably don't get the whole "social media" concept either, right?

[Walt34]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jags I don't begrudge the folks who have and like lots of stuff. Neither do I mind if someone enjoys the spartan life. But don't preach to me that one is better than the other. Sounds too much like someone who just "got" religion and wants to save my soul.

Indeed.

I was just thinking about that this morning when DW was telling me about going out to dinner with her brother, SIL, and ~10 other friends for his birthday (I was at work, didn't know about it until 2 days before so couldn't get off). This is the SIL that I call "Spendarina" and although they have a good income they're still essentially living paycheck-to-paycheck, have the three-car garage full of stuff and are planning a kitchen remodeling for a kitchen that we'd be happy with as is.

In spite of all that DW said her brother seemed happy and relaxed.

While admittedly beyond my comprehension it apparently works for them, so I just gaze in wonderment and keep my big fat mouth shut.

[HFWR]

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Originally Posted by donheff This one does capture the essence of why a lot of people react negatively to Hill's opinion piece. A couple of lines: "Aha! All it takes is a leisurely decade or so of world travel with "Olga, an Andorran beauty" to come to the conclusion that less is more. Make a note, average Americans..." "The problem here is not the message. The problem is the messenger. More specifically, it is the messenger using his own life as supporting evidence for the message...to say to the average American, "My journey through the perils of great wealth has bestowed me with wisdom that is directly applicable to you" is simply false."

In some ways, though, the same could be said for this forum. "Some" of us have a hard time relating to the machinations and hand-wringing of folks who wonder if they can somehow FIRE with a few mil in the bank...

[haha]

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Originally Posted by HFWR In some ways, though, the same could be said for this forum. "Some" of us have a hard time relating to the machinations and hand-wringing of folks who wonder if they can somehow FIRE with a few mil in the bank...

This suits me fine. A long time ago I figured out that only those who were not well off would negatively affect my well being. Bring on the obsessive compulsives! Bring on the anxiety neurotics! What I don't want is easy riders who plan budget supplements on my dime.

The occasional poster who is planning to survive by cutting corners and playing the nanny state are those who do not please me. If you have $10mm and think you need $15mm, attaboy partner!

And agree, the guy who wrote this article is a dweeb, but so what, America is full of them. The people who think through what they are enacting are a vanishingly small minority. THe younger and hipper someone is, the more likely he is to be an idiot. And this really goes for young rich guys.

Ha

[HFWR]

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Originally Posted by haha This suits me fine. A long time ago I figured out that only those who were not well off would negatively affect my well being. Bring on the obsessive compulsives! Bring on the anxiety neurotics! What I don't want is easy riders who plan budget supplements on my dime. The occasional poster who is planning to survive by cutting corners and playing the nanny state are those who do not please me. If you have $10mm and think you need $15mm, attaboy partner! Ha

Well, we all have a cross to bear...

[ERD50]

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Originally Posted by Milton (Like me), you probably don't get the whole "social media" concept either, right?

I 'get' some of it I think, others seem silly (tweeting, 'I'm going to the store now!'?).

I enjoy some blogs, if that is what you mean. As I said before, I like hearing other's perspective. It was the preaching, selling, and obviousness and downright silliness (I'm a multi-millionaire, I learned this after a decade of conspicuous consumption at a level you will never experience) of this that just bugged me.

edit/add: This commentary, linked to earlier is hilarious, and spot-on in many ways -

http://gawker.com/5989989/it-would-b...ium=socialflow

and one of the comments:

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Not to mention the part where he spent $350,000 renovating his apartment into the minimalist form in which it exists today.

-ERD50

[FUEGO]

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Originally Posted by kevink I have no problem with the article's recommendation to own less stuff and take up less space, but the fact that the author is a multimillionaire using the piece to make still more money = right message, wrong author IMHO. I know plenty of people in the U.S. who have no choice but to "live on less," and then there's the small matter of the rest of the world. Remember this slide show with the total household possessions of various people around the planet? Kinda eye-opening: Everything You Own In A Photo: A Look At Our Worldly Possessions : The Picture Show : NPR

There is a nice coffee table book with all of these photos of family's possessions in different parts of the world. Material World: A Global Family Portrait: Peter Menzel, Charles C. Mann, Paul Kennedy: 9780871564306: Amazon.com: Books I believe it is the exact same set of pics.

I checked it out from our local library (or maybe interlibrary loan from some larger library). Pretty cool pics and narratives for each pic.

[Sarah in SC]

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Originally Posted by haha THe younger and hipper someone is, the more likely he is to be an idiot. And this really goes for young rich guys. Ha

I nominate this as the champion "get off my lawn" comment of the month!

[FIREd]

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Originally Posted by FUEGO I checked it out from our local library (or maybe interlibrary loan from some larger library). Pretty cool pics and narratives for each pic.

I just requested that book from my local library as well as Menzel's other book:
Amazon.com: What I Eat: Around the World in 80 Diets (9780984074402): Peter Menzel, Faith D'Aluisio: Books

[ls99]

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Originally Posted by kevink This take-down of the original bit of narcissism is much more wortwhile than the original, IMHO: It Would Be Great if Millionaires Would Not Lecture Us on 'Living With Less'

Love the first paragraph. Edited for propriety with the **

"......You are not simply Some Fu**ing Guy Who Sold Your Internet Company For a Lot of Money; you are a lifestyle guru, with many important and penetrating insight about How to Live that must be shared with the common people."

[ls99]

RE: post 73

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Originally Posted by Sarah in SC I nominate this as the champion "get off my lawn" comment of the month!

+1