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Old 03-26-2016, 11:19 AM   #21
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The quality of time left, for me, also depends on the time left for the people close to me. Make the time NOW to spend with older people who are close to you. They may not be around when you have the time to spare.
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Old 03-26-2016, 11:49 AM   #22
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Reflecting on the thoughtful comments I wanted to add a little more. While this issue can devolve into time versus money, as many have pointed out, I think there is more to it than that: especially for early retirees. It is for me a question of changing my mindset as I age.

Historically, I've never put much credence in the "live for today because you never know about tomorrow" philosophy. Often felt it was an excuse for taking the easy way: much preferring to prepare "for that rainy day". I suspect most, if not all, who frequent this forum felt the same way.

Today, however, while I do not in anyway regret that approach to my life, I do find myself working to transition my thinking more and more to the present over the future. Inevitable I suppose even for the slowest of thinkers like myself... 🤔


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Old 03-26-2016, 01:43 PM   #23
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Historically, I've never put much credence in the "live for today because you never know about tomorrow" philosophy. Often felt it was an excuse for taking the easy way: much preferring to prepare "for that rainy day". I suspect most, if not all, who frequent this forum felt the same way.

Today, however, while I do not in anyway regret that approach to my life, I do find myself working to transition my thinking more and more to the present over the future. Inevitable I suppose even for the slowest of thinkers like myself... 🤔
+1

Definitely. I'm by nature a cautious long-term planner and somewhat of a worrier. DW and I ER'd last year in part because quality time has become more important than additional money. We worked for the future long enough to more fully enjoy the now!

Honestly, though, we could accept this only because we also realized that we were FI, well ahead of schedule. One of the many neat things about FI is that it allows, even encourages, options, both in lifestyle as well as ways of thinking.

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Old 03-26-2016, 02:22 PM   #24
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No shocker generally on those results; it has long been common wisdom within the legal profession that we have more of a problem with booze than most--with litigators likely over-represented even within the profession.

But, on looking at the study, its definition of "problematic drinking" seems a bit overbroad. From my admittedly brief review, it looks like I'd be in the 21% based solely on sharing a 750 ML bottle of red wine with DW nearly every night at dinner. (350 ml of 12-15% alc. wine rounds up to 3 drinks...., giving me the 5 points that is their cutoff) No points from anywhere else on the AUDIT quiz--and the second and third parts of it are really the ones targeted at uncovering problems, rather than potential for problems ....
My point was that the "life" described by the author of the article to me is like a walking death (alcohol, drugs to avoid the realization that inhumanely long hours doing nothing more than reviewing documents is soul crushing). Too often we worry about death when we haven't maximized our lives while on earth.

Regarding longevity, the book "Comfort Zones" makes the point that in the final chapter of our lives, we should attempt to get the most of all of its stages (the work/retirement transition period, the go-go years, the slow-go years, and the no-go years). One takeaway was that the slow-go years doesn't necessarily mean giving up things, just doing different things (e.g., waltz instead of samba). Another takeaway was the no-go years can be a time of great reflection and gratitude for a life well lived. Or not. As in all things in life, what will you choose?
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Old 03-26-2016, 02:47 PM   #25
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My parents both lived to their 90's and drank at least a glass of wine a day. To say that one 'drinks' is often misleading as there is 'drinking' (a glass of wine with dinner) and 'DRINKING' (like the characters in Mad Men). That is a huge difference.
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Old 03-26-2016, 02:59 PM   #26
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The latest research (a meta analysis) suggests that alcohol has no health benefits. Darn!

Drinking alcohol offers no net health benefits, review finds - Health - CBC News
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Old 03-26-2016, 03:03 PM   #27
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Two glasses of red wine with my evening meal, for longevity. It seems to be working, so far.

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Old 03-26-2016, 03:13 PM   #28
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The latest research (a meta analysis) suggests that alcohol has no health benefits. Darn!
Relaxation can be a health benefit, don't you think?
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Old 03-26-2016, 03:15 PM   #29
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Relaxation can be a health benefit, don't you think?
I agree. It just won't make you live longer.
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Old 03-26-2016, 03:51 PM   #30
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+1

Definitely. I'm by nature a cautious long-term planner and somewhat of a worrier. DW and I ER'd last year in part because quality time has become more important than additional money. We worked for the future long enough to more fully enjoy the now!

Honestly, though, we could accept this only because we also realized that we were FI, well ahead of schedule. One of the many neat things about FI is that it allows, even encourages, options, both in lifestyle as well as ways of thinking.

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Old 03-26-2016, 05:25 PM   #31
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+1

Definitely. I'm by nature a cautious long-term planner and somewhat of a worrier. DW and I ER'd last year in part because quality time has become more important than additional money. We worked for the future long enough to more fully enjoy the now!

Honestly, though, we could accept this only because we also realized that we were FI, well ahead of schedule. One of the many neat things about FI is that it allows, even encourages, options, both in lifestyle as well as ways of thinking.

FB
Indeed! And it's a balancing act, isn't it, ensuring we live enough in the present while being mindful not to "spend" our future? I'm reminded of another fantastic takeaway from the "Comfort Zones" book I mentioned up thread, which is that no one gets this balancing act right all of the time. Personally, this gave me "permission" to not have all the answers all the time, as nobody does. The journey is quite personal and quite individual.

OTOH, my recent in-depth estate planning project coupled with Imoldernu's threads (as well as those threads discussing LTC) have had me pondering the question of what kind of quality of life do I want as I age. I found this to be an excellent discussion regarding late stage end of life care:

https://medium.com/@stevenbirenbaum/...045#.nx7vh5kgq

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You see an example of someone who kind of takes control. He has this great moment when he says to the doctor, ďI know youíll tell me when I reach the point that I canít do what I want, which is to be able to still be at home and not in the hospital. I know youíll tell me that, wonít you?Ē He was signaling in a very gentle way, ďThis isnít the place I want to be, and at a certain point, I want you to have this conversation with me.Ē

The patient opened the door. He was very clear about what he did not want to sacrifice. You know, if things got bad, he wanted to be home. He wanted to be out of pain. He wanted to be with his family. He wanted to have that time on hospice.

You got to see how different that was from the woman who didnít have that conversation until towards the very end. Finally, someone asks enough questions to find out that what she really wished for was that she could go to Disney World with her grandchildren. Youíre watching, and youíre realizing that they could have given that to her. They could have made that possible for her, but now itís too late, and itís not going to happen, and itís heartbreaking. To see that contrast is a lesson for me and my colleagues ó itís a lesson for all of us.

...

One of the critical things to understand is that itís virtually all of us who end up wanting to be sure that the goal weíre trying to achieve is not necessarily a good death but a good life all the way to the very end. The vast majority of people have concerns about the care they receive not being in alignment with what matters to them most. When that care is out of alignment with their priorities and goals, the result is suffering.
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Old 03-26-2016, 06:43 PM   #32
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DW & I kick this around from time to time. I've related to her the story of my late wife......she was 6 1/2 years younger than me (and never made her 53rd birthday)......the paramedic, who was taking her home from the hospital to die, said to me (and I was in my 60th year) "Don't worry, we'll get your mother home safely".

Not for me...if I can possibly help it, nor for DW.......a one way ticket to Belgium, (who knows, I might even encounter Daesh, and save her the cost of the assisted suicide).....I've had a good life, (I've already lived longer than my father and his brothers did and, because of that, longer than I expected), and I have no desire to rot to the timetable of some foul disease.

DW says "We'll go out together", (but she's 10 years younger than me, with a father who's 90 and in good health, and an 85 year old mother who's not doing so great, but even that is 22 years away for DW).

Things you can't ignore and/or pretend that, in one form or another, are not going to happen......like it or not, they have to be faced head on.
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Old 03-26-2016, 06:53 PM   #33
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An interesting article by Scott Burns that speaks to some of the numbers re life expectancy and leaving money behind.

https://assetbuilder.com/knowledge-c...g-spend-freely
Yep. The older you get the harder it is to party hardy aka spend more. At 22 years into ER and into the 70's age wise you look back and wonder why you were such a cheap SOB the first decade of retirement.

But then again it was kind of fun - in a Four Yorkshiremen' Monty Pyton sense.



heh heh heh - I run OPM a lot - the latest run had us into our 90's. A bit of a stretch I think.
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Old 03-26-2016, 07:03 PM   #34
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Not for me...if I can possibly help it, nor for DW.......a one way ticket to Belgium, (who knows, I might even encounter Daesh, and save her the cost of the assisted suicide).....I've had a good life, (I've already lived longer than my father and his brothers did and, because of that, longer than I expected), and I have no desire to rot to the timetable of some foul disease.
You know you have access to physician assisted death in Canada now? The Supreme Court set an extended deadline of June 2016 for the legislation, and meanwhile, anyone who meets the criteria has the right to get it approved at a court hearing. There have been 4-5 legal assisted deaths to date.
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Old 03-26-2016, 07:23 PM   #35
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You know you have access to physician assisted death in Canada now?
What, you're trying to cheat me out of my 'final European vacation'?
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Old 03-26-2016, 07:54 PM   #36
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I had 2 buddies die of pancreatic cancer, both younger than me.
Not sure why but up until a few years ago, I thought Pancreatic cancer was relatively rare. However, in the past few years, I've had a very close friend and a family member who died from it. Both were males, (one in his late 50's, the other in his early 60's.) Both were strong, energetic and the types that never seemed to get sick. One took all the chemo he could the other took nothing. Both lasted about 8 months from their initial diagnosis.
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Old 03-26-2016, 08:12 PM   #37
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Regarding longevity, the book "Comfort Zones" makes the point that in the final chapter of our lives, we should attempt to get the most of all of its stages (the work/retirement transition period, the go-go years, the slow-go years, and the no-go years). Another takeaway was the no-go years can be a time of great reflection and gratitude for a life well lived. Or not. As in all things in life, what will you choose?
as per psychologist Erik Erikson's 8th Stage of Life:


8. Ego Integrity vs. Despair


As we grow older (65+ yrs) and become senior citizens, we tend to slow down our productivity, and explore life as a retired person. It is during this time that we contemplate our accomplishments and are able to develop integrity if we see ourselves as leading a successful life.

Erik Erikson believed if we see our lives as unproductive, feel guilt about our past, or feel that we did not accomplish our life goals, we become dissatisfied with life and develop despair, often leading to depression and hopelessness.

Success in this stage will lead to the virtue of wisdom. Wisdom enables a person to look back on their life with a sense of closure and completeness, and also accept death without fear.
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Old 03-27-2016, 09:03 AM   #38
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My point was that the "life" described by the author of the article to me is like a walking death (alcohol, drugs to avoid the realization that inhumanely long hours doing nothing more than reviewing documents is soul crushing). Too often we worry about death when we haven't maximized our lives while on earth.

...
100% agree--the person profiled had no life and is an object of pity. The long hours of work are standard--but in my large firm experience (not NYC), long hours drinking afterwards are not, save for those who choose it. (Sorry for going on the tangent of the broader statistics!)
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Old 03-27-2016, 09:28 AM   #39
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I don't drink, for several reasons. One of those reasons is the same reason why I don't indulge in recreational drugs: I want to be as fully aware as possible, in order to enjoy every moment of life as much as I can.

I love my life more with each passing year.

If diamonds were as common as pebbles on the street, and our streets were littered with diamonds instead of pebbles, then those diamonds would lose value because of being so common and no longer scarce. Value is so often tied to scarcity or lack of same.

With each passing year the time remaining to us becomes less and less. That time gains value (for some of us), because there is so much less future time available for us to experience than there once was.

I look forward to, and cherish experiencing my remaining years.
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Old 03-27-2016, 09:52 AM   #40
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If diamonds were as common as pebbles on the street, and our streets were littered with diamonds instead of pebbles, then those diamonds would lose value because of being so common and no longer scarce. Value is so often tied to scarcity or lack of same.

Interesting you used this analogy. Diamonds, as you may be aware, are a contrived scarcity with supply being very carefully controlled by DeBeers. Not nearly common as pebbles, but hardly as scarce as one would think based upon price.

So at another level your analogy points to our perception of reality, as distinct from actual reality, being the critical factor in our happiness. A variation on "fake it, till you make it" so to speak...


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