Needs vs. Wants

[W2R]

I found an easy way to deal with this problem when in the accumulation phase, before retiring. I cut back on my spending until I was spending less than I planned to have available in retirement.

This had two good results: First, I never got used to spending much, so I am not having to cut back; and second, that gave me more to put into my retirement nestegg.

Use your math skills in preparing for retirement: Cut back until what you are spending is consistent with what you will have to spend in retirement. You are not going to magically become frugal just because you retire. Now is the time to do that (in my opinion! )

Good luck and I hope this helps.

 

[sgfgrover15]

You are not going to magically become frugal just because you retire. Now is the time to do that (in my opinion! )

Very good point

 

[Throwdownmyaceinthehole]

I had a sister in law that would go drunken binge shopping (that was her name for it) she and her friends or daughters would get schnockered then go the the mall and buy outrageous amounts of clothes, purses, whatever, just for the fun of shopping. Charge it all, then return it the next day. A dangerous way to feed the buying monster, but they had great fun. I can barely get myself into the grocery store, much less the mall.

 

[easysurfer]

I've always been a LBYM type person. Yet at the same time I don't mind splurging on something that I really like. But I think the title "Needs vs Wants" says it all.

When I used to w*rk my mind went like "Everyone else has cable, so I should too. Everyone else has a monthly mobile service. so should I, etc. etc." But what I retired my mindset changed and I had to ask myself "Do I really need it or just want it?"

Having a good budget is an important start. I've found that budgeting allows me to buy stuff that I really need and want instead of stuff I have no need for and wonder why I got that in the first place. Plus, if forces honesty.

Also, sometimes just going to a store and browsing can bring a similar high. The 3 most powerful words when shopping "I'm just browsing"

 

[happy2bretired]

You are trying to fill a hole with "things". Figure out what is missing and address that. There are people that specialize in figuring out this stuff.

I think that was my problem while I was still working. I was so unhappy with my job, in the last few years, that I might have been trying to plug that hole. Since I retired, I've desired much less.


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[daylatedollarshort]

Lately we are just more aware of the differences between what advertisers say we need and what happiness studies find is really important. Many of the factors that make people happy are actually free or low cost - social connections, being around nature, creative hobbies and free time. Financial security makes people happy and that actually comes from buying less stuff not more.

 

[sgfgrover15]

My formula for impulse control: build structure and understand motivation / triggers to help build the right ones.
...

Good strategy for a lot of life's challenges actually. Thank You

 

[sgfgrover15]

I just want thank everyone for taking the time to let me talk through this. I was brought up in a home where you just plain were not encouraged to talk and you definitely did not discuss your feelings so I learned very young to stuff things down and learned unhealthy coping mechanisms. I am working on reversing that.

 

[Options]

Recommend spending some time on the Mr. Money Mustache blog. He has a lot to say about mindless spending.

 

[jabbahop]

This "want Spending" has been an issue for both my wife and I. As we plan to retire next year we have done three things that have helped. First we have started selling "stuff" we don't need around the house. This makes us much more aware of amount of want stuff around. Second, we have made and discussed a post retirement budget so we have a better understanding of what changes in behavior it will take to successfully retire and travel (our # 1 discretionary item). Third we have practiced cutting want spending for the past 6 months to see how it feels and make sure we can do it.

The one cautionary item for us is the fact that I have been going through cancer treatment the past 6 months. While it is highly likely that it won't be an issue going forward, there has been a bit of pause on living to focus on the treatment so we aren't totally sure our attitudes and spending the last 6 months are reflective of a healthy reality.

This is a great subject. Thanks for bringing it up. It is really helpful seeing how others deal with it.


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[AnIntentionalRoad]

It really isn't what I want. You could say I have a very addictive personality. shopping, eating, drinking. It is about controlling the urge so that we can live the life we deserve in retirement. Coming up with healthy habits instead of destructive ones.

On your deathbed, do you want to look back and reminisce about all the stuff you bought or do you want to think on how you spent your time and money doing things of value?

I think people in your situation, and I know many, could spend time in self-reflection and try to figure out who they really are. What are they about? What are their passions and interests.

Excessive consumerism is, IMO, always a sign of something else missing in one's life.

 

[Jack_Pine]

I guess some would say I buy a fair amount of stuff. I have a lot of hobbies. As I stated before I love doing the research, joining forums and learning and then making an informed buying decision.

I could care less what anyone else has or does not have. It is for me. If I get to a place where I can't afford it, I will wait or save till I can or do without. To me, living within your means goes both ways.

Now DW........(just kidding)

YMMV

 

[AnIntentionalRoad]

I guess some would say I buy a fair amount of stuff. I have a lot of hobbies. As I stated before I love doing the research, joining forums and learning and then making an informed buying decision.

I could care less what anyone else has or does not have. It is for me. If I get to a place where I can't afford it, I will wait or save till I can or do without. To me, living within your means goes both ways.

Now DW........(just kidding)

YMMV

I think this is totally reasonable. It is very different from impulsive consumption that ends with buyer's remorse and a bunch of junk you don't want stuffed in closets.

But, it is probably healthier than many other compulsions!

 

[Walt34]

I too have had that issue long ago - couldn't keep a dollar in my pocket. I got over it by (at the time) going to almost all cash, no credit cards, and writing checks only for stuff that would be impractical to pay any other way - rent, utilities, etc.

And I learned to stay out of stores. That alone is huge. One of the more enlightening classes I ever took was one in marketing. There are some very smart people who have spent their entire lives studying how to get you to spend more money for stuff you don't even want. The psychology of what goes on in a store is well-studied and runs deep.

Knowing this made me admittedly a little paranoid and a lot more analytical when I'm in a store.

Other suggestions made are good - go to all cash when possible. Do you know why merchants love credit cards even with the fees they have to pay the banks? Because spending with a cc doesn't "feel" like spending and on average people spend 20% more with a cc than they do with cash. Pulling cash out of your wallet is a negative experience. Cc's give you immediate gratification with no immediate pain.

Someone else made a very good suggestion about the wish lists on online sites. I have several of those, containing items that I will never buy (think Nikon D4s, lens not included) unless I hit the lottery and we all know how likely that is.

We also have a spreadsheet that we use to enter that month's financials in that calculates our discretionary spending amount for the rest of the month which helps a lot to avoid unpleasant surprises the next month when the cc bills arrive in the mail. That's one tool that works well for us, YMMV.

In all, you have to find a method or system that will work for you and your H. Perhaps this will help: "Failure to do so will mean you have to go back to work!"

 

[Closet_Gamer]

Thanks guys, We have built in discretionary spending but it is when the whim hits I worry about. I have been known to blow a significant amount of money very quickly during one of my binges then have the "What have I done?" Mostly done in boredom like mindless eating.

I ask this question in all seriousness and from personal experience:

Have you ever considered that you might be bi-polar?

When many people think about bi-polar they think of massive mood swings from suicidal depression to drunken weekends in Vegas. There is a variant called bi-polar 2 which is reflected in less extreme swings between depression and manic episodes of intensity. Within that, there is a further classification called "rapid cycling bi-polar 2" where these swings come and go fairly quickly. Because these exist in the context of an otherwise "normal" life it can go un-diagnosed for a long time. Apparently there is also evidence that it can worsen in mid-life.

If you find yourself saying, "I try to stop these episodes but I can't", you may want to look into this. Particularly if you see a similar pattern in other aspects of your life and/or you have depressed episodes as well. If you're struggling with this stuff but keeping quiet, I implore you to talk to your doctor or a friend. Our society generally stinks at dealing with mental health issues...but there are many good web sites and a trip to your family doc can get this assessed fairly quickly.

This may well not be your situation, but your comment above made me think I should at least suggest it.

Good luck!

 

[Katsmeow]

I tend to be a spender. The needs v. wants thing has never done much to help me with this. That is, lots of things are a mix of need v. want. A place to live is a need. And, you could perhaps rent a 1 room efficiency to meet that need. One can argue that anything beyond that is a want.

Sure, some things are a clear want and aren't "needed" at all. Most things are a mix. I have a desktop computer which I consider a need (not saying that couldn't be met through other devices). On the other hand, I spent $3000 for it, which for me was a compromise (my first priced computer was over $7k). I recognize that there is "want" there in addition to meeting the need.

Anyway -- what has helped me the most -- is that as part of our budget, DH and I each have a personal spending category. We allocate a certain amount to it (currently $200 a month for each of us, but this has varied from year to year). And, we often allocate some amount of "found" money to it. For example, when we were working we put some part of our work bonuses into it (not all of them, just part). Or, we get cash back from Amex. Part of that does to spending money.

The key there is that each of us can spend that money however we want to. We both like things like computers, iPad, shiny electronics so those things come out of that category. Right now I have about $4500 in my spending category. That sounds like a lot, but my next computer will come out of that so I've mentally set aside $4000 of it for things like computer, iPad, etc. The rest of it is what I spend on fun stuff like books, video games, computer software, etc.

At one time we included clothing and personal care (hair, makeup) in this category (when we did the monthly amount received was more than the $200).

Anyway, having this kind of category really helps me because I have to decide do I want to spend $50 for this game or would I rather use it to buy 10 Kindle books, etc.

 

[NW-Bound]

"Needs vs. Wants".

This is what I need.

This is what I want.

 

[FIREd]

And I learned to stay out of stores.

That's the key for me too (and that includes online stores). I also try to shut advertisement out of my life. That's tough. Even this LBYM forum can be a source of temptations sometimes (hello Fuji X100S camera)

 

[NW-Bound]

Another poster, Masterblaster, keeps saying that even the modest need above is too much.

He suggests that we aim lower, like in this past post of his: http://www.early-retirement.org/for...etiring-in-next-5-years-48244.html#post894017.

Anybody sees Masterblaster lately? What's he up to?

 

[ggbutcher]

I have a specific list of what I call my "mandatory expenses". This is what it takes to maintain a residence, eat three meals daily, and generally just comfortably exist. Everything else is "discretionary", and we just schedule all our wants within the bounds defined by monthly income minus mandatory expenses.

We've lived this way since we got married, and we intend to continue the practice into retirement, whenever that arrives...

 

[sgfgrover15]

Wow I really love all the coping mechanisms out there. Staying out of the stores has been so huge for me in controlling myself.

I do have self-diagnosed depression, I haven't pursued official diagnosis because when myself or my H see the pattern starting, eating right, exercising, stopping drinking, seems to put my head back on right. Without proper diagnosis I don't know if I may be bipolar or maybe just clinical.

We took a huge load of stuff to our daughter for her apartment and doing a yard sale tomorrow. I am putting out EVERYTHING we don't need to live with for the next couple of months until our cross country move. It is giving me a huge wake up of my excessive stuff.

I am listening to all of the suggestions, advice and I value all of it.

 

[Telly]

I put myself through school by working in factories, some grubby and dangerous, some clean and sort of nice. Many observations on people and their motivations. And saw how their "choices" held them back. Many many lessons on what not to do. But also what drove them to make the particular choices they did. Observational research by a layman into the world of the behavioral sciences.

So I did my best NOT to duplicate them.

I rarely will buy something if I have a still useable existing one, thinking of tools at the moment. What would I do with the old one? It still works. Maybe not as fast, maybe it's clunkier to handle, heavier, whatever, but still works. Don't want to throw it away... don't want to start a collection of tools of the same type that I will only use the newest... so I stick with the old one. Of course if it is truly a safety issue, that will sway me.

I rarely went to garage sales, started going to some close by that were on my way, I did not seek them out. At one, I saw some neat antique stuff I thought I really wanted. Then I thought, where would I put it? Would I really look at it EVERY DAY and be glad I had it? Why really did I want it? Did I want it, just to HAVE it? Bingo! For me, that was why. I did not NEED it.
I don't need to acquire more things unless they are really useful to something I am doing or are (be serious now) going to do.
I walked away. Actually walked away feeling pretty good. I don't go to garage sales anymore. I don't need to acquire things. They will not really make me happy, more content, nor do I need the "hunt" of things to make me feel good. I'm immune. Maybe that is a sign of getting old, though I hear stories of elderly on shopping binges!

My mantra is: I don't need to ACQUIRE... I need to DIVEST!

 

[NW-Bound]

+1

I have lots of "stuff" already. I do not need, nor want more.

Nowadays, I just want to count my money.

Oh, I spend money on consumables. Food to eat. Booze to drink. Problem is my food is not that expensive, nor my drink. And I do not eat nor drink much.

Gas for my motorhome. There we go. That thirsty beast will take care of the surplus.

 

[chris2008]

To overcome impulsive purchases usually I look at the item, then I think something like "I could easily buy it if I really want to - but today I decide that I do not want to buy it". I really take time to enjoy the feeling of "I could" - and walk away.
Then I enjoy very detailed the feedom of being able to walk away.

I might put an item on my list to think about purchasing next month. Usually I have already forgotten why I put it on the list when next month comes.

It is an approach that can be practiced and gives a lot of satisfaction.

 

[Ally]

I also have that urge sometimes. I have developed 3 ways of handling it: first, stay out of stores unless I really need something, two, set aside some spending $$ for times like that and stick to that amount, and three, return things when I get buyer's remorse.


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