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Old 05-11-2016, 04:56 PM   #41
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I hate all this electronic babysitting and I'm really glad I only have 23,500 miles so far on my 2009 Venza. Maybe it will be my last car. I call it my "nanny car" because it has too much of this kind of stuff already. I want to drive my car myself. [/crabby_old_lady]
Count me in with you. I am really against all this nanny crap (my nice word for the forum) being forced on cars.
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Old 05-11-2016, 05:12 PM   #42
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Count me in with you. I am really against all this nanny crap (my nice word for the forum) being forced on cars.
Glad I'm not the only one who is against all that electronic nanny stuff! I miss the way cars used to be in that sense.
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Old 05-11-2016, 05:17 PM   #43
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Aren't side curtain airbags required?

My 10 year old Civic has them.

I want self-driving features but now I kind of regret not putting $1000 down on the Model 3.

Rather than spend a lot, maybe save up for a self-driving car. Maybe level 4 autonomous cars are 5-10 years away, by the most optimistic estimates.

If the insurance industry reduced premiums for them, it might encourage adoption. Because if they're fully level 4, how would they come up with the actuarial valuations since the driver's driving record isn't involved?
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Old 05-11-2016, 07:26 PM   #44
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I love this stuff, but it's still in it's infancy:

Tesla Model S autonomously crashes into a parked trailer while in Summon mode
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Old 05-11-2016, 08:34 PM   #45
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My 2013 Toyota Avalon had the blind spot and cross traffic alerts and I liked those. The Toyota backup cameras always seem to be looking into the sun and are not that handy. My 2015 Toyota Highlander doesn't have the blind spot or cross-traffic features and I miss them. I don't believe that I would care to have the newer safety features, but if they would keep idiots from tailgating and jumping lanes, I'd be all for them!

I will be turning in my company car at the end of next month and have been test driving cars. The Honda Accord has a neat feature that when you turn on your right turn signal the camera in the right side-view mirror is displayed on the screen on the dash and it is very clear. They also have a backup camera that helps you back into a spot without having to look over the high headrests. It seems to "bend" with the position of the car. Really well thought out.
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Old 05-11-2016, 08:39 PM   #46
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I often wonder, if the US government (or any government for that matter) is so concerned about car safety and saving lives, why do they still allow car manufactures to make and sell high performance cars. (I know $$$$$$) Two of my latest unmodified "production cars" are capable of 0 to 60 times in ~4 secs and top speeds well in excess of 160mph. Heck, one of them even has a "launch control button" specifically designed for improving drag racing times. And of course, I can talk or text on my cell phone at the same time.
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Old 05-11-2016, 08:57 PM   #47
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For most cars, you can adjust the outside mirrors to eliminate the blind spots. It takes some getting used to but it does work.
How To: Adjust Your Mirrors to Avoid Blind Spots - Feature - Car and Driver

Agreed. Now that I am used to using my mirrors this way I get very annoyed if they are not setup to give me such a great view of the sides and rear.


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Old 05-11-2016, 11:17 PM   #48
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Glad I'm not the only one who is against all that electronic nanny stuff! I miss the way cars used to be in that sense.
I used to be that way, didn't want power windows as just another thing to break.
However, as I drive on the freeway I'm in a van and can easily see into cars that pass me as I'm drive 75-80 mph, and no kidding many of the drivers of those passing cars are texting with their phone.

Now if they could crash and only wreck their own car and life, I'd be fine with it, but no, they will likely crash into another car that slows down or stops (don't you hate stopping on the freeway ) . Or they will drift over lanes and give you a little nudge.

So mandated safety features are cheap because every car has them and they cannot be sold as an upgrade.
These things will make the roads safer from the texting nuts.
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Old 05-11-2016, 11:23 PM   #49
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I used to be that way, didn't want power windows as just another thing to break.
However, as I drive on the freeway I'm in a van and can easily see into cars that pass me as I'm drive 75-80 mph, and no kidding many of the drivers of those passing cars are texting with their phone.

Now if they could crash and only wreck their own car and life, I'd be fine with it, but no, they will likely crash into another car that slows down or stops (don't you hate stopping on the freeway ) . Or they will drift over lanes and give you a little nudge.

So mandated safety features are cheap because every car has them and they cannot be sold as an upgrade.
These things will make the roads safer from the texting nuts.
And that's exactly why I believe that if we must mandate new safety devices, the very first should be a cellphone jammer. Cheap, existing technology, proven effectiveness.

Why compensate with unproven and expensive technology, when a proven solution already exists?
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Old 05-11-2016, 11:29 PM   #50
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And what happens if a driver has to make an emergency call?
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Old 05-11-2016, 11:30 PM   #51
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And that's exactly why I believe that if we must mandate new safety devices, the very first should be a cellphone jammer. Cheap, existing technology, proven effectiveness.
Actually let the first civil action that awards big damages due to use of a cell phone while driving happen and the insurance companies will demand this. Since all you need to do is to show that the defendant had a cell phone at number X and at the time of the crash the cell phone was in use.
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Old 05-11-2016, 11:30 PM   #52
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And what happens if a driver has to make an emergency call?
Pulling over seems easy.

Or...

How was that handled before cellphones?
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Old 05-11-2016, 11:32 PM   #53
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Actually let the first civil action that awards big damages due to use of a cell phone while driving happen and the insurance companies will demand this. Since all you need to do is to show that the defendant had a cell phone at number X and at the time of the crash the cell phone was in use.

Hasn't happened yet... Wonder why? Seems an easy win in court.
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Old 05-11-2016, 11:33 PM   #54
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Glad I'm not the only one who is against all that electronic nanny stuff! I miss the way cars used to be in that sense.
Almost all current systems can be turned off as one of the settings. Of course todays owners manuals are up to 500 pages in length. They include telling one how to set the delay before the headlights go off at night when you turn the car off.
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Old 05-12-2016, 08:29 AM   #55
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Almost all current systems can be turned off as one of the settings. Of course todays owners manuals are up to 500 pages in length. They include telling one how to set the delay before the headlights go off at night when you turn the car off.
You did say "almost all" but I'm not sure I ever owned a car where I could turn off nannies such as (examples) ABS, TPMS, Rev limiters or speed limiters with an owner available setting/button/switch. I've been able to bypass some rev and speed limiters with some computer modifications. ABS can be disabled (dumb in IMO, in most cases) by pulling the ABS fuse on many cars. I never tried to figure out how to bypass TPMS since I like them, but I'm sure it can be done. I'm sure there are other examples of nannies that can't be turnoff with a user option, but those are the ones I could think of quickly.
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Old 05-12-2016, 08:32 AM   #56
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Almost all current systems can be turned off as one of the settings. Of course todays owners manuals are up to 500 pages in length. They include telling one how to set the delay before the headlights go off at night when you turn the car off.
That brings up another innovation, and this one I dislike immensely. The owners manual for my new Accord comes in 2 parts. A slim printed booklet that fits in the glove box, and a DVD, which I have not seen, may be interesting, but will be worthless to me if I am stranded somewhere and need details that I can't find in the booklet.

I agree some of the electronic safety settings can be turned off. In fact, I turned one off already - without knowing it. Now I have to figure out how to turn it back on.
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Old 05-12-2016, 08:52 AM   #57
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You did say "almost all" but I'm not sure I ever owned a car where I could turn off nannies such as (examples) ABS, TPMS, Rev limiters or speed limiters with an owner available setting/button/switch. I've been able to bypass some rev and speed limiters with some computer modifications. ABS can be disabled (dumb in IMO, in most cases) by pulling the ABS fuse on many cars. I never tried to figure out how to bypass TPMS since I like them. I'm sure there are other examples but those are the ones I could think of quickly.
I'm wondering how long it will be before it becomes standard practice for police/lawyers investigating an accident to pull the codes to determine if ABS, traction control, etc were working (i.e. not disabled or inop and not fixed) and then cited as contributory causes to accidents.
And I wonder how many accidents are due to visibility restrictions in modern cars (wide pillars needed to contain the 50 airbags, tall/wide head restraints in every seat, tall rear decks and high "beltlines" apparently driven by styling concerns. Fewer cameras and sensors would be needed if a driver could actually see things directly, but a modern car has the outward visibility of a tank compared to cars of just 30 years ago. No, I don't think older cars were "safer", but I do believe the advances have come with some tradeoffs that may be underappreciated.
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Old 05-12-2016, 08:53 AM   #58
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I agree some of the electronic safety settings can be turned off. In fact, I turned one off already - without knowing it. Now I have to figure out how to turn it back on.
Car forums are good places to find tips and tricks on enabling/disabling features, and most of them will have a page for your specific model. For example, I found out how to disable the horn chirp for the lock/unlock door button on the key fob. The lights still flash so that I know the door has locked, but the annoying chirp is gone.
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Old 05-12-2016, 09:00 AM   #59
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Hasn't happened yet... Wonder why? Seems an easy win in court.
Because cell phone jammers are against the law and the financial punishment for using them as levied by the FCC is VERY EXPENSIVE. I recently read a FCC levied fine against a warehouse for using a jammer to keep employees productive. That warehouse got to pay a $29,250 fine.

https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-pro...ee-cell-phones
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Old 05-12-2016, 09:04 AM   #60
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I'm wondering how long it will be before it becomes standard practice for police/lawyers investigating an accident to pull the codes to determine if ABS, traction control, etc were working (i.e. not disabled or inop and not fixed) and then cited as contributory causes to accidents.
Already happening. Most of the cars made in the last 7 years have "blackboxes" (EDR, event data recorders) that record a lot of information and it's all discoverable if you decide to take them to court.

The current requirement from the NHTSA is that any event recorders installed must record a minimum of 15 data points; including, speed, steering, braking, acceleration, seatbelt use, and, in the event of a crash, force of impact and whether airbags deployed.

Decoding What's Inside Your Car's Black Box | Edmunds.com
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