New car safety features:

[meierlde]

And that's exactly why I believe that if we must mandate new safety devices, the very first should be a cellphone jammer. Cheap, existing technology, proven effectiveness.

Actually let the first civil action that awards big damages due to use of a cell phone while driving happen and the insurance companies will demand this. Since all you need to do is to show that the defendant had a cell phone at number X and at the time of the crash the cell phone was in use.

 

[Keim]

And what happens if a driver has to make an emergency call?

Pulling over seems easy.

Or...

How was that handled before cellphones?

 

[Keim]

Actually let the first civil action that awards big damages due to use of a cell phone while driving happen and the insurance companies will demand this. Since all you need to do is to show that the defendant had a cell phone at number X and at the time of the crash the cell phone was in use.

Hasn't happened yet... Wonder why? Seems an easy win in court.

 

[meierlde]

Glad I'm not the only one who is against all that electronic nanny stuff! I miss the way cars used to be in that sense.

Almost all current systems can be turned off as one of the settings. Of course todays owners manuals are up to 500 pages in length. They include telling one how to set the delay before the headlights go off at night when you turn the car off.

 

[Car-Guy]

Almost all current systems can be turned off as one of the settings. Of course todays owners manuals are up to 500 pages in length. They include telling one how to set the delay before the headlights go off at night when you turn the car off.

You did say "almost all" but I'm not sure I ever owned a car where I could turn off nannies such as (examples) ABS, TPMS, Rev limiters or speed limiters with an owner available setting/button/switch. I've been able to bypass some rev and speed limiters with some computer modifications. ABS can be disabled (dumb in IMO, in most cases) by pulling the ABS fuse on many cars. I never tried to figure out how to bypass TPMS since I like them, but I'm sure it can be done. I'm sure there are other examples of nannies that can't be turnoff with a user option, but those are the ones I could think of quickly.

 

[MichaelB]

Almost all current systems can be turned off as one of the settings. Of course todays owners manuals are up to 500 pages in length. They include telling one how to set the delay before the headlights go off at night when you turn the car off.

That brings up another innovation, and this one I dislike immensely. The owners manual for my new Accord comes in 2 parts. A slim printed booklet that fits in the glove box, and a DVD, which I have not seen, may be interesting, but will be worthless to me if I am stranded somewhere and need details that I can't find in the booklet.

I agree some of the electronic safety settings can be turned off. In fact, I turned one off already - without knowing it. Now I have to figure out how to turn it back on.

 

[samclem]

You did say "almost all" but I'm not sure I ever owned a car where I could turn off nannies such as (examples) ABS, TPMS, Rev limiters or speed limiters with an owner available setting/button/switch. I've been able to bypass some rev and speed limiters with some computer modifications. ABS can be disabled (dumb in IMO, in most cases) by pulling the ABS fuse on many cars. I never tried to figure out how to bypass TPMS since I like them. I'm sure there are other examples but those are the ones I could think of quickly.

I'm wondering how long it will be before it becomes standard practice for police/lawyers investigating an accident to pull the codes to determine if ABS, traction control, etc were working (i.e. not disabled or inop and not fixed) and then cited as contributory causes to accidents.
And I wonder how many accidents are due to visibility restrictions in modern cars (wide pillars needed to contain the 50 airbags, tall/wide head restraints in every seat, tall rear decks and high "beltlines" apparently driven by styling concerns. Fewer cameras and sensors would be needed if a driver could actually see things directly, but a modern car has the outward visibility of a tank compared to cars of just 30 years ago. No, I don't think older cars were "safer", but I do believe the advances have come with some tradeoffs that may be underappreciated.

 

[Music Lover]

I agree some of the electronic safety settings can be turned off. In fact, I turned one off already - without knowing it. Now I have to figure out how to turn it back on.

Car forums are good places to find tips and tricks on enabling/disabling features, and most of them will have a page for your specific model. For example, I found out how to disable the horn chirp for the lock/unlock door button on the key fob. The lights still flash so that I know the door has locked, but the annoying chirp is gone.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Hasn't happened yet... Wonder why? Seems an easy win in court.

Because cell phone jammers are against the law and the financial punishment for using them as levied by the FCC is VERY EXPENSIVE. I recently read a FCC levied fine against a warehouse for using a jammer to keep employees productive. That warehouse got to pay a $29,250 fine.

https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-proposes-29k-fine-employer-jammed-employee-cell-phones

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

I'm wondering how long it will be before it becomes standard practice for police/lawyers investigating an accident to pull the codes to determine if ABS, traction control, etc were working (i.e. not disabled or inop and not fixed) and then cited as contributory causes to accidents.

Already happening. Most of the cars made in the last 7 years have "blackboxes" (EDR, event data recorders) that record a lot of information and it's all discoverable if you decide to take them to court.

The current requirement from the NHTSA is that any event recorders installed must record a minimum of 15 data points; including, speed, steering, braking, acceleration, seatbelt use, and, in the event of a crash, force of impact and whether airbags deployed.

Decoding What's Inside Your Car's Black Box | Edmunds.com

 

[Car-Guy]

I'm wondering how long it will be before it becomes standard practice for police/lawyers investigating an accident to pull the codes to determine if ABS, traction control, etc were working (i.e. not disabled or inop and not fixed) and then cited as contributory causes to accidents.

I've read stories of blackbox info being used to "prove" what happen. Someday it may become SOP. Just think about the day where you may be required to submit your blackbox info each year to get your license tags or drivers license renewed (or denied or fined, as the case maybe).

No, I don't think older cars were "safer", but I do believe the advances have come with some tradeoffs that may be underappreciated.

Agree.

 

[samclem]

Already happening. Most of the cars made in the last 7 years have "blackboxes" (EDR, event data recorders) that record a lot of information and it's all discoverable if you decide to take them to court.

The current requirement from the NHTSA is that any event recorders installed must record a minimum of 15 data points; including, speed, steering, braking, acceleration, seatbelt use, and, in the event of a crash, force of impact and whether airbags deployed.

Decoding What's Inside Your Car's Black Box | Edmunds.com

So, if I've disabled my ABS, traction control, etc, does the Event Data Recorder (EDR) report that? The government requires the automakers to put EDRs in every vehicle, is there a law that says a vehicle owner must allow it to continue to function?

 

[Music Lover]

So, if I've disabled my ABS, traction control, etc, does the Event Data Recorder (EDR) report that? The government requires the automakers to put EDRs in every vehicle, is there a law that says a vehicle owner must allow it to continue to function?

Even if there isn't a law that states that disabling EDR is illegal, you can be certain that there will be one sooner or later.

 

[NW-Bound]

I love this stuff, but it's still in it's infancy:

Tesla Model S autonomously crashes into a parked trailer while in Summon mode

I am not in the market for new cars, so have no personal experience about any of the new safety features. Properly done, they would be helpful in preventing accidents, so I tend to prefer them.

About automation, I think that in the rush to beat competition, car makers are tripping over each other in releasing fancy-schmancy self-driving modes that are not fully tested. It will take a few lawsuits or perhaps fatalities to slow them down.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

So, if I've disabled my ABS, traction control, etc, does the Event Data Recorder (EDR) report that? The government requires the automakers to put EDRs in every vehicle, is there a law that says a vehicle owner must allow it to continue to function?

I would assume that it would report that the system was turned off. This would be in the automaker's best interest in case someone tried to claim that the system failed when in fact the operator turned it OFF.

I don't think there is (yet) a law that says the equipment has to be used. Airbags should be replaced at 10 years, but there is no requirement to DO so. Actually, seat belts should be replaced at a certain interval as well, but there isn't a REQUIREMENT to do so...yet.

Even if there isn't a law that states that disabling EDR is illegal, you can be certain that there will be one sooner or later.

Perhaps. But, I assume the connection to the EDR is a simple plastic bus connector. You could simple unplug it and play stupid. There would be no way to PROVE you disconnected it. Now, that isn't to say that they could tie it in with the ignition or something, basically disabling the car if you unplug it.

 

[meierlde]

Note that the current EDRs record no more that 30 seconds before the crash (they record in what amounts to a loop of tape (all be it is all solid state). I think there is some confusion between the auto EDR (which is primarily to determine the conditions of a crash) and things like the progressive insurance driving monitor dongle.
Recall that even the cockpit data recorder in commercial planes only records 2 hours in a loop. The flight data recorders loop between 17 and 25 hours of flight time also.

 

[Sunset]

I've read stories of blackbox info being used to "prove" what happen. Someday it may become SOP. Just think about the day where you may be required to submit your blackbox info each year to get your license tags or drivers license renewed (or denied or fined, as the case maybe). Agree.

Just like cell phones, there is the concept of illegal search, so before a cell phone or black box can be used as evidence there would need to be a search warrant.

Perhaps that is why there have not been big civil cases of cell phone texting being at gross negligence fault for texting while driving. The cell phone users refuse to hand over the phone or even "drop" it in the toilet.

 

[Keim]

Because cell phone jammers are against the law and the financial punishment for using them as levied by the FCC is VERY EXPENSIVE. I recently read a FCC levied fine against a warehouse for using a jammer to keep employees productive. That warehouse got to pay a $29,250 fine.

https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-proposes-29k-fine-employer-jammed-employee-cell-phones

You misread what I was wondering about. Wondered why someone hasn't lost big big bucks for causing wreck while on phone.

Well aware of legality.

 

[Rustic23]

Rather than a jammer, how about limiting the programs to operating at say 5mph or less. You could get a beep that tells you you missed a call or txt, but not who it was from or what it is. If you want to find this info out you have to slow below 5 mph. You could hook the tone into you contacts and have a different tone for 'important people'. Yea, you can still have an accident at 5 mph, but the probability of serious injury should be low.

 

[ExFlyBoy5]

Note that the current EDRs record no more that 30 seconds before the crash (they record in what amounts to a loop of tape (all be it is all solid state). I think there is some confusion between the auto EDR (which is primarily to determine the conditions of a crash) and things like the progressive insurance driving monitor dongle.
Recall that even the cockpit data recorder in commercial planes only records 2 hours in a loop. The flight data recorders loop between 17 and 25 hours of flight time also.

Definitely, but in the 30 second period, you can glean a LOT of information as to what someone was doing.

Just like cell phones, there is the concept of illegal search, so before a cell phone or black box can be used as evidence there would need to be a search warrant.

Perhaps that is why there have not been big civil cases of cell phone texting being at gross negligence fault for texting while driving. The cell phone users refuse to hand over the phone or even "drop" it in the toilet.

And in regards to a civil case, if you "misplace or destroy" something that is discoverable, you could find yourself in a heep of trouble. Not only to mention that you won't have to have the physical phone to determine if they were using the phone or not.

And, the cases do happen. Most are settled, but in some cases, it goes to trial with bad results for the defendant.

https://www.schmidtandclark.com/22m-in-damages-for-fatal-texting-while-driving-accident-lawsuit

 

[explanade]

Why do you want to disable ABS?

I know some enthusiasts try to get more performance, even if it disables some smog equipment or cause the car to fail emissions requirements.

I guess if cars are a hobby more than just a conveyance.

I was watching Top Gear where they were driving a £75k M5 with 550hp to show how fast it is. Then I look at all the traffic in most major metropolitan areas and wonder what's the point of such a car.

 

[Music Lover]

Why do you want to disable ABS?

A skilled driver can outperform ABS.

 

[explanade]

In what, not locking up the brakes in slick conditions?

 

[ls99]

At the rate of adding gizmos to cars, won't need drivers license. Instead a Systems Administrator's certificate to manage the driving system.

I see an awful lot of people driving their cars/minivans/SUVs/pickup trucks at what would have been years ago the far limits of the vehicle's driving envelope. Anotherwords well beyond their actual ability to control a car or truck at the speed they are traveling. Relying[-] blindly [/-]stupidly on the stability control, ABS, radar/ultrsonic braking control etc..

Then they continue that method in the winter after fresh snow and/or ice or just after a rain shower when the road is slicker than normal dry pavement, and are distressed at finding themselves wrapped around a tree, under a tractor trailer or in a ditch.

The sure deserve the Darwin award.

 

[karen1972]

I'm one of the soon to be beta testers of the model X. It's going to be an odd upgrade to my 2006 Honda civic. I haven't had a "nice car" in quite a while and I'm a sucker for all the tech on it.

I like Tesla cars but wouldn't buy Tesla stock so I guess this is how I can contribute?

Any way I cut it... it's an indefensible expense I plan to enjoy a lot . I won't pretend to rationalize it any other way.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Early Retirement Forum mobile app

I thought my friends were crazy when they bought their Tesla.. I'm like really you have nothing better to do with your money?? and now I'm eating my words. It is super sweet. Just couldn't believe the acceleration, no noise, plus just the general coolness factor. I of course worry about what happens when something breaks (ie.. the handles disappearing are cool.. until they don't work). On the downside though insurance will have to eventually catch up to it because they had an accident, someone ran into them and the electrical work that had to be done was rather extensive and of course pricy..so the guy is thinking oh, just a vendor bender ..no biggy its the bumpber is handed a $12K bill.