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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon
Old 12-12-2005, 10:25 AM   #21
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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

This thread is fascinating.

My question for you wise-in-the-ways-of-salmon types is: what about raw?

One of my favorite foods is raw salmon at the local sushi bar, so I've always wondered what it would take to prep some sashimi on rice at home with salmon bought from the grocery store. Gotta be easier on the wallet eh?

I've read there is a risk of parasites so have never done it, although I've also read commercially frozen will eliminate this risk. I'm not sure how much skill in prep is a factor in preparing.

I'm quite tempted to try it with frozen salmon from Kroger but once saw a picture of a tapeworm on the internet that will forever haunt me... so I seek the wisdom of others.

Comments?
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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon
Old 12-12-2005, 10:29 AM   #22
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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut-Throat
Why would you want to support the commercial fishing industry? - Do you think they own all of the Fish in the Sea? If there was an industry that gathered up all of the remaining wild animals on the North American continent like Buffalo, Elk, and Moose would you 'Support' them also?
What is your problem with the commercial fishing industry? and how is farm raised not commercial? You have some problem with helping out Alaskans' make a living on the boats or ashore? I go to the grocery store to buy my food, where are you getting yours?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut-Throat
Do you know what they feed Chickens? - Do you know how they make sausage? Would you think a 'Wild' Filet mignon would taste better than a feedlot Filet Mignon?

Obviously the bad press that Farm raised Salmon has gotten has had an successful effect on you! This is the way the Commercial Fishing Industry has intended it.
Maybe you've been brain washed! I don't think The Journal of Nutruition has their research bought by the Wild caught fishing industry.

Oh, by the way...picked up some Yellowtail for $4.99 at Haskells on Sat...pretty good stuff....don't know if it was farm raised or wild grapes, though, label doesn't say...are they a commercial winery?


Study Cites Risks of Eating Farmed Salmon

By CANDICE CHOI, Associated Press Writer Wed Nov 30, 8:33 PM ET

ALBANY, N.Y. - Before rushing to make salmon a staple of a heart-healthy diet, consumers should check the origin of their fish supply, a new study recommends.

It turns out where the salmon comes from and what they are fed determine whether the health risks will outweigh the benefits, according to the study recently published in the Journal of Nutrition.

Researchers found that the contaminant levels in farmed salmon from certain regions of the world increased the risk of cancer enough to outweigh the heart health benefits of salmon.

The toxin levels were so high in some farmed salmon from Europe that people should only eat a single serving once every five months, the study found.

"That's pretty horrendous," said David Carpenter, lead author of the study and director of the Institute for Health and the Environment at the state University at Albany's School of Public Health.

While the toxin levels in wild salmon weren't high enough to exceed the health benefits, the same wasn't true for farmed salmon, which are raised on a diet of fish oil.

The level of contaminants in fish oil often derived from local fish vary depending on the region of the world.

"What (the salmon) are fed turns out to be a huge part of the story," said Steven Schwager, an author of the report and researcher at Cornell University.

Farmed salmon from South America had the lowest level of pollutants followed by farmed salmon from North America. Salmon from Europe had the highest level of pollutants, according to the study.

"We think it's because that area's been industrialized much longer," Carpenter said.

Prompted by other studies indicating that fish oil increases the levels of toxins in farm-raised salmon, some fish farmers in recent years have switched to using vegetable oil pellets.

But a study last year found the heart health benefits from fish like salmon were weakened when they were fed vegetable oil instead of fish oil.

To determine whether the heart health benefits of farmed salmon were worth the risk, researchers used advisories developed by the U.S.
Environmental Protection Agency for cancer effects and the fish consumption advisory issued by the
American Heart Association.

"In farmed salmon, the cancer risk dominated the health benefits," Carpenter said.

That's not a call for people to shun farmed salmon, however.

Salmon and other fatty fishes like mackerel and sardines are rich in omega-3 fatty acids, the healthy fat that scientists say raises the "good" HDL cholesterol and lowers the "bad" tryglicerides. The AHA recommends people eat fish particularly fatty fishes at least twice a week.

"None of us argue that benefits are real. But the dirty little secret is that there are risks," Schwager said.

Even taking into account the risks, however, the benefits of salmon are worthwhile for some groups, including older people who may be recovering from coronary problems, Schwager said.

"But for young people worried about a lifetime accumulation of pollutants, the risks far outweigh the benefits," he said.

Recent studies from Scotland have reported that feeding salmon vegetable oils except in the final stages of farming resulted in salmon with significantly lower levels of contaminants but with most of the omega-3 fatty acids obtained from the standard diet.

"We're not opposed to farmed salmon, just how it's farmed. The industry can reduce the level of toxins by changing how they feed (the salmon)," Carpenter said.
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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon
Old 12-12-2005, 10:33 AM   #23
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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRBT
This thread is fascinating.

My question for you wise-in-the-ways-of-salmon types is: what about raw?
Makes great bait!

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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon
Old 12-12-2005, 10:34 AM   #24
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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut-Throat
Salmon decomposes on ice at the same rate as everything else in your refrigerator does! Salmon stays 'Fresh' about 3-4 days. I can buy it here in Minneapolis fresher than I can bring it home.

I may not know a lot, but trust me, I know Fish! 8)
My taste in fresh fish must not be as delicate as yours... I accept flash-frozen salmon as a compromise between convenience, cost, and quality. Nothing like the convenience and comfort of coming home from a long day at work and whipping up Salmon-n-somethin' in 20 minutes.
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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon
Old 12-12-2005, 10:38 AM   #25
 
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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

This is an interesting thread. *I also think the commercial fisherman don't care about destroying the fisheries, as long as they make money.

But here are the arguments I've heard against fish farms:

from MIT study:

...if these selectively bred fish escape, they can breed with fish in the wild and threaten the natural biodiversity found in species. Fish feed from farms can also threaten ecosystems if it is present in excess, or if it contains antibiotics.

Other argument: escaped fish can spread disease to the wild population.

------------------------

Final note: this is an overpopulation issue.
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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon
Old 12-12-2005, 10:42 AM   #26
 
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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

Quote:
Originally Posted by TromboneAl
This is an interesting thread. I also think the commercial fisherman don't care about destroying the fisheries, as long as they make money.

But here are the arguments I've heard against fish farms:

from MIT study:

...if these selectively bred fish escape, they can breed with fish in the wild and threaten the natural biodiversity found in species. Fish feed from farms can also threaten ecosystems if it is present in excess, or if it contains antibiotics.

Other argument: escaped fish can spread disease to the wild population.

------------------------

Final note: this is an overpopulation issue.
Al,

You are correct about this! - However, it doesn't mean we need to stop fish farming, It just means the methods need to be improved.

I also beleive that the cat may be out of the bag on this one. There are already runs of Atlantic Salmon in the Pacific Ocean.
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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon
Old 12-12-2005, 11:16 AM   #27
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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cut-Throat
And yes I do have a problem with the Commercial Fishing Industry. They don't own the World's Oceans. Why are you content with letting them Plundering it! -

I suppose you think that 120 years ago when commercial hunters shot every Buffalo in the American West, it was noble and justified. Lots of folks with economic interests 'supported' them also. The Ocean is just one of the last frontiers on the planet.

By your argument, It would appear you have no trouble with Commercial Whaling either! Or maybe the harvesting of Elephant tusks should be allowed at everyone's whim also.

'The Journal of Nutruition' - Give me a Break! -

You have no idea what you are talking about!
Alaskan fishing industry owns the world's oceans? You have no idea what you're talking about. :

...plundering... Buffalo, elephant, whaling How am I getting dragged into that buffalo-elephant-whale dung you're spouting! spewing? 8)

Most of the farm raised salmon is not done by a family farm but the huge corporations....predominately Norwegian & Dutch...is it good for them to own the World's Fish farms...why are you content to let them do that? :P

So, I await your proof the research was bought by the Commercial Fishing Industry. Are you saying the research results are tainted in some way, that it's not good science..that it's been influenced by the Intelligent Design of some Wild Fish god. Give me a break!
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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon
Old 12-12-2005, 11:31 AM   #28
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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

I have several concerns about salmon farming:
1.* The feed is made out of the 'awful' left over from the commercial farming industry.* The scrap fish with no market and the parts of marketable fish left over from processing.* The former content provides a market for the commercial fishers who fish indiscriminately, disrupting the food chain in the sea.
2.* Intense fish farming deposits fish droppings (no different than feed lots) and unconsumed feed in small areas, adversely impacting the surrounding waterway.
3.* Because the fish live in much more confined spaces infections are likely to spread.* I have seen the fish in floating net pens destroyed as a result.
4.* Escapement does happen, I have seen net pens tear away from their moorings.* BC has reported reproduction of Atlantic Salmon in waterways near salmon farms.

The problems with the commercial fishing industry are caused by foreign fishers who are dragging their nets on the sea bottom, not retrieving drift nets, and over fishing.* The fishers in US waters are regulated.

Salmon are near the top of the sea food chain.* They are pink because they eat other fish.* Any chemicals in smaller fish will concentrate in salmon.* Note the recent finding in the North Sea that Killer Whales have significant concentration in their blubber.* The whales in the north Pacific are also having viability problems.

Re raw fish.. I wouldn't eat it for the same reasons I don't eat raw beef or pork..
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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon
Old 12-12-2005, 12:46 PM   #29
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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

Wow..........what a debate about salmon fishing! Can you imagine what it's gonna be like when Hillary is running against the Republicans?*
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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon
Old 12-12-2005, 12:49 PM   #30
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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

So what is it about fish that made you think of Hillary?

I love the smell of salmon in the morning...* 8)
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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon
Old 12-12-2005, 01:15 PM   #31
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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

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So what is it about fish that made you think of Hillary?

I love the smell of salmon in the morning...* 8)
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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon
Old 12-12-2005, 01:55 PM   #32
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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

I'm waiting for the next batch of headlines about "mad-fish disease".

What would we call it, "aqua salmonella spongiform encephalopathy"?

Just think, in a couple months that phrase will make this ER forum the top Google hit!
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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon
Old 12-12-2005, 02:07 PM   #33
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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

"Have you tried the salmon almondine?"
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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon
Old 12-12-2005, 02:08 PM   #34
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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nords
What would we call it, "aqua salmonella spongiform encephalopathy"?
You should have left off the 'encephalopathy' part.

Cuz then we'd all be subject to ASS disease.

Probably make people a lot more concerned than 'bird flu'.
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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon
Old 12-12-2005, 02:12 PM   #35
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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

All seriousness joking aside, the larger issues are carrying capacity, concentration of poisons/pollutants, etc.
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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon
Old 12-12-2005, 02:28 PM   #36
 
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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

Quote:
..plundering... laugh Buffalo, elephant, whaling Cheesy How am I getting dragged into that buffalo-elephant-whale dung you're spouting! spewing? Cool
Dan,

If you fail to Grasp the similarities of Wild Fish vs. Farmed Fished and Wild Animals vs. Farm raised animals then you need more help than I can offer you here.
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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon
Old 12-12-2005, 03:52 PM   #37
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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

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Dan,

If you fail to Grasp the similarities of Wild Fish vs. Farmed Fished and Wild Animals vs. Farm raised animals then you need more help than I can offer you here.
Oh, Ya, sure, that's what I need, is to ask your help understanding complex issues. :

Your analogies that I must approve tusk and whale harvesting and buffalo slaughter 120 years ago helped me an awful lot in the discussion about farm and wild salmon.

I haven't seen anything that says Alaskan fisheries own the seas and are plundering them. Aren't they regulated by the state and are struggling to survive against fish farm conglomerates?

What is your aversion to the Alaskan fish industry, are they competing with sport game fisherman like yourself? Do you catch & release your Alaskan fish, do you eat them or ever mount any? So if you do eat them that's ok because your wealthy enough to go there and get your own, but the rest of us should eat farm raised because wild is caught by some small Commercial Fish company busy plundering the seas? and if we eat too many there won't be enough for CT to get his?

CT - You need my help understanding complex issues. I'm sure I can straighten you out when it comes to fish, then after you understand fish we can talk wine. 8)
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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon
Old 12-12-2005, 04:11 PM   #38
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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

Quote:
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Dan,

When I buy an Alaskan fishing license I am allowed to keep 6 Salmon. Why should we allow a Single Alaskan fishing Boat to keep Thousands of wild Salmon to sell at a profit? I have no problem with them keeping a limit of fish - Which is 6.

You don't have enough knowledge in this area to even carry on an intelligent discussion. You've probably never even been to Alaska.

Why aren't they allowed to make money selling thousands of fish? How did you make the money you have to ER?

You're right I've never been there. What I've heard so far from you doesn't make me think you learned all that much by going there. Careful! I'm getting ready to book a cruise. I do enhance my knowledge when I travel - then I'll know even more than you do about Alaska & Salmon.
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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon
Old 12-12-2005, 04:16 PM   #39
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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

Hey TH, welcome back.
Playing with the kids is more fun than upping the post count -- at some point they stop wanting to play with you and then all you'll have left is us :P. Enjoy it all -even the diaper stuff.
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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon
Old 12-12-2005, 09:20 PM   #40
 
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Re: Farm raised Salmon vs. Wild Salmon

CT,

Try doing a blind taste test on some fresh vs. frozen salmon, defrosted slowly in the fridge (with ice cubes on it). I used to refuse frozen fish and feel that only fish that was fresh enough to have zero fish smell was good enough. But I've had some salmon that wife brought home from the fish market, and said hey, this isn't fresh enough. But when I cooked it, it was flawless. Same with the frozen salmon.

And I have had very fresh salmon...
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