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Old 09-08-2007, 10:41 AM   #41
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What I think is interesting is the issue is always housework or cooking ? What if the shoe were on the other foot and the guys came home and complained because we did not seal the deck ,or mow the lawn or take out the garbage ? If we women want help with the housework when the guys are retired shouldn't the guys expect help with their chores if we are the ones retired ? Is Ha right have the women in America turned into bullies ?
Interesting point. The thing about housework and cooking is they need to be done day in and day out. Sealing the deck, only once in a while. Even mowing is rarely more than once a week. Add up the hours.

I have never liked to cook and I don't do a good job of it either. Fortunately, Greg does like to cook and is an excellent, intuitive cook. Now that I am retired too, he has tried to get me to cook at least once a week. I admit I am not very good about that. I understand his need for a break but I sure am resistant to filling in. I do a good part of the post cooking clean up. I do help with tasks like chopping veggies.

BTW, I most often am the one who mows the lawn because I like to mow the lawn. Garbage has always been taken out by the person who decides it is full. No big deal about it.
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Old 09-08-2007, 10:43 AM   #42
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What I think is interesting is the issue is always housework or cooking ? What if the shoe were on the other foot and the guys came home and complained because we did not seal the deck ,or mow the lawn or take out the garbage ? If we women want help with the housework when the guys are retired shouldn't the guys expect help with their chores if we are the ones retired ? Is Ha right have the women in America turned into bullies ?
It seems like it is a lot more common these days for women to mow and take out the trash, than it was 50 years ago. At least, that has been my observation. A husband who will take out the trash without having to be told to do it, and without having to have someone hand it to him all sealed up and ready to go, is pretty cool!
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Old 09-08-2007, 11:14 AM   #43
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Want2,

I agree. Nothing makes my heart beat a little faster than a man who does chores without being asked . . . does them from start to finish without any discussion.

A guy who breezes through household (inside and/or outside) chores and takes some responsibility for what needs to be done . . . is beyond cool . . . he is s e x y to me. Guess my definition of "sexy" has changed over the years.
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Old 09-08-2007, 11:50 AM   #44
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Maybe you would not even have to go to work .You could just dress up a few times a week and mumble something about consulting then when she leaves you could come home and relax !!
I like that suggestion and it just might work !

She would catch on if there as no income (she handles the money expenses). Although money is NOT an issue in this marriage (especially since between my pension and my investments I'm going to make more this year than I did last year )
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Old 09-08-2007, 12:00 PM   #45
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I retired (after 31 years) about 6 months ago, because of an offer from my company "that I couldn't refuse". My dear wife still has about 5 -6 more years to get her pension from the local school system.

Things seem to be getting a bit "strained" around the house, so I would like some input from others, especially the fairer sex !

First, my wife, who is an above average house keeper, stopped house cleaning after I retired, just to see if I would start doing it. Well, I outlasted her, mostly because she usually does not like the way I clean house anyway. I did offer to hire a housekeeper, but she said, "I would have to clean before she/he came !" It took the better part of a week to get things back to the way she likes them.

Second, DW, pointed out that I had not done much additional cooking, especially while she was working (although we eat out/have carry out more than ever). I agreed and now that school is back in I have cooked dinner a couple of time. Well, last night, I said I would do the dishes in the AM only to have her start them at about 9:00PM (she has to get up at 5:30AM), after I had settled down to watch TV in the family room. I don't understand this, other than she dislikes dirty dishes.

This AM, while she was getting her breakfast and lunch ready, I asked if she knew if we had some ingredients for dinner tonight. Instead of a simple "Yes" or "No", she gave me a 60 second "lecture" on why I shouldn't ask her questions like that in the AM.

I'm nervous about where this is going. I would like to retire with this lady and have told her she can quit anytime she wants and we will be okay. (Her pension and benefits would be nice, but I'm pretty certain we can make do without it.)
#1 If you are retired you should make her breakfast, pack her a lunch and have supper ready for her when she gets home. The kitchen, sink, and dishes should be spotless.

#2 You should do the grocery shopping, put the garbage out, cut the lawn and keep minor house maintenance in check.

This is the minimum you should be doing.

#1 works wonders.
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Old 09-08-2007, 12:24 PM   #46
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Well, heck, Wiz, you have all the answers. I give up.

You're absolutely right about everything and she's totally wrong...
I understand your sarcasm and that is why I am concerned and am "airing my dirty laundry" here.

In my career, I used to have a job where I was the "go to guy". I had to be right about everything and consequently, I usually got "my way". Only one person would ever stand up to me a say, "Let's try it another way". He became my best friend.

While I do like to have my own way (don't we all ?) I hope I am capable of listening to alternatives.

I'm trying to pick up more of the load, especially cooking, but I feel like I'm still "in training" and need extra advice/assistance. DW feels that I should just "know how to do things" to her way. That, and I don't like to be criticized for not meeting all of her standards.
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Old 09-08-2007, 01:04 PM   #47
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For us I've always been the one doing most the household stuff while my husband worked for a living. I do everything involved with all the food in the house (shopping, planning, preparing) laundry, bill paying and banking, and all the errands. Sometimes I find time to do seasonal projects, but yardwork, etc. is mostly his domain.

On the few occasions when I have been gone all day or been involved in a time consuming project, the thing I appreciate the most is if he thinks of something for dinner and gets stuff prepped. Thaw something out and decide on a side dish and make sure we have what we need. That takes care of most of the burden.

So far we are planning that he retires in a little over 6 years at age 58 1/2. He'll have a pension and he thinks he may want to work part-time in some kind of low stress job. I don't mind sharing some of the household tasks. But I'm the one here who is conservative and watches for waste and conserves resources. The stuff that will be difficult for me to get used to is all the lights he leaves on all day, him using 6 paper towels for something that I'd use just one, annoying things that would be done better MY WAY. I'm going to have to find a mantra that I can use to help me give up control and let him help around the house. I know it's my problem, not his, especially if he's trying to contribute.
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Old 09-08-2007, 01:40 PM   #48
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...
In my career, I used to have a job where I was the "go to guy". I had to be right about everything and consequently, I usually got "my way". Only one person would ever stand up to me a say, "Let's try it another way". He became my best friend.

While I do like to have my own way (don't we all ?) I hope I am capable of listening to alternatives.

I'm trying to pick up more of the load, especially cooking, but I feel like I'm still "in training" and need extra advice/assistance. DW feels that I should just "know how to do things" to her way. That, and I don't like to be criticized for not meeting all of her standards.
Aha, now we're getting somewhere. You need to remember that when you retired, you didn't trade in one job for another. Performance reviews and bonuses are in your past -- now you get to figure out how to live the rest of your life without a job description, annual goals and a paid support staff. As has been said numerous times, retirement is not a destination but a journey. And you have to figure out your role with your partner.

When I retired last December, my DH actually made a list of the tasks he thought I should accomplish over the next several months -- including some pretty heavy-duty renovation projects that I had neither the talent nor the inclination to even try! Unlike your spouse, my still working hubby was more than ready to dump turn over all the chores that he routinely did over the past thirty years. (And btw, I carried my share of the household duties despite a grueling work schedule of 50+ hours of work weekly and some international travel.) The first few months of my retirement were tense to put it mildly -- with him expecting a report on my day when he came home...and me resenting that he wanted an account of how I spent my time! This wasn't working out and I was starting to read the want ads to get out of the house!

Anyway, we realized that we were heading down a path where we didn't want to go and finally sat down and really talked it out. A lot of our issues were about the changing roles we were taking on. Our routines were different and so were our expectations -- but until we talked it out, I didn't know and neither did he how these changes were being internalized.

Bottom line? I'm trying to do some of the things that he normally did -- like cutting the lawn, taking the cars in for service, etc. -- so that he has a bit more time to play/relax/unwind when he gets home. Do I make mistakes? Of course! (For example, I probably will never get the hang of using the gas trimmer on the lawn...so I leave that part for him.) Some things he's specifically asked me NOT to do -- and I won't even try. But looking around the house, I see lots of stuff that needs to get done, that I'm capable of doing, and that he appreciates when he gets home.

Good luck with your issues, TOW. I hope you can work them out.
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Old 09-08-2007, 01:43 PM   #49
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Here is an article about late life divorce

A House Divided
Yup. It's hard to change attitudes and routines at this stage of life. It takes some real effort from real grownups to go through midlife and retirement with a marriage intact.

Ditto to everything that Nords wrote.

Also, my former husband, who has a Ph.D., couldn't do household chores, find things, cook a reasonably tasty meal, IF he didn't want to. If he decided he wanted to, then he was an expert and would tell ME how to do things. So it goes. It's a choice. And some men don't want to do the household stuff, cooking, shopping. They want to go about their usual routine, having everything taken care of for them. Some women are willing to go along with this, some aren't.

You'll find out where the two of you fit in this scenario then you'll have some hard decisions to make. (And maybe you'll find out that living with those decisions will be even harder.)
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Old 09-08-2007, 01:49 PM   #50
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I like that suggestion and it just might work !

She would catch on if there as no income (she handles the money expenses). Although money is NOT an issue in this marriage (especially since between my pension and my investments I'm going to make more this year than I did last year )

This attitude is a real problem.She's a grownup woman, not a child who might "catch on" to your trick. Sigh. Good thing she is going to have her own pension.
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Old 09-08-2007, 02:19 PM   #51
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I don't mind sharing some of the household tasks. But I'm the one here who is conservative and watches for waste and conserves resources. The stuff that will be difficult for me to get used to is all the lights he leaves on all day, him using 6 paper towels for something that I'd use just one, annoying things that would be done better MY WAY. I'm going to have to find a mantra that I can use to help me give up control and let him help around the house. I know it's my problem, not his, especially if he's trying to contribute.

Sue , Most of the posters know I was widowed at 51 and you know the only regrets I had were that I did not travel as much as he wanted and that I bugged him about stupid stuff .His not folding the clothes like I do seems so insignificant now .As long as he's willing to help ,appreciate it whether it's your way or not .
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Old 09-08-2007, 03:17 PM   #52
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Want2,

I agree. Nothing makes my heart beat a little faster than a man who does chores without being asked . . . does them from start to finish without any discussion.

A guy who breezes through household (inside and/or outside) chores and takes some responsibility for what needs to be done . . . is beyond cool . . . he is s e x y to me. Guess my definition of "sexy" has changed over the years.
SEXY = doing household chores? It's very indicative of the state of marriage and male-female relations. There's so much resentment around this issue of who does what around the house that even a little "help" from your man makes you so grateful you're ready to hop in bed with him.

Wouldn't it be great if our relationship with our man was so smooth that we wanted to hop in bed with him just because of WHO HE IS, not what he does for us?

Just my humble opinion. No personal criticism intended.
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Old 09-08-2007, 07:05 PM   #53
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... we wanted to hop in bed with him just because of WHO HE IS, not what he does for us?
I see many women with whom I'd hop in bed just because of who they are, but my spouse considers that to be sexist guy thinking...
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Old 09-08-2007, 08:12 PM   #54
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SEXY = doing household chores? It's very indicative of the state of marriage and male-female relations. There's so much resentment around this issue of who does what around the house that even a little "help" from your man makes you so grateful you're ready to hop in bed with him.

Wouldn't it be great if our relationship with our man was so smooth that we wanted to hop in bed with him just because of WHO HE IS, not what he does for us?

Just my humble opinion. No personal criticism intended.
Oldbabe, good grief. . . i was trying to be somewhat funny while making a point but apparently was not too successful at it. By your implication I guess I would be "hopping into bed" with every handyman and yardman who comes by. Chores definitely do NOT equal sex.

I am not married (divorced 25 yrs), don't want to deal with any of these issues, and my hat is off to all of you who are facing them because I think it is very challenging. I was just trying to make a point that women really appreciate a man who carries his share of the load. Personally I take care of all of my own household business.

I spent 15 years with a childish, spoiled man who expected me to do 100% of everything inside and outside the house, raise the kid, work fulltime, and turn all of my money over to him so he could spend all of it on his toys. Those days have been over for 25 years. None of that for me ever again. I presently have a 17-year relationship with a fine man and we live happily apart and remain happily unmarried. I don't fuss at him or have expectations of him that he can't or does not want to fulfill and same goes for how he deals with me.

However, on those occasions when my significant other does chores for me, let's just say that I appreciate him more, mainly because my ex-husband wouldn't lift a finger! And, yes, I think a man is more of a man if he helps.

MAN DOES CHORES = WARM FEELINGS DEVELOP = GOOD THINGS (maybe just a hug)
MAN DOES NOTHING = RESENTMENT DEVELOPS = BAD THINGS (maybe a kick in a$$ eventually all the way out the door)

And men can substitute the word "woman" for man above. It's supposed to be a partnership, never 50/50 but lots of helping each other should lead to a better environment at home and a sweeter relationship.

That's just my opinion which is, I am sure, influenced a lot by my former husband's sorry performance.
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Old 09-08-2007, 08:35 PM   #55
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My wife usually rewards me with great sex when I clean up the kitchen, when she is away all day and has had a long day

It works really well, I help with the chores, I get what I want, and I make damn well sure she has the best sleep she will ever have in her life /wink
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Old 09-09-2007, 06:19 AM   #56
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My wife usually rewards me with great sex when I clean up the kitchen, when she is away all day and has had a long day

It works really well, I help with the chores, I get what I want, and I make damn well sure she has the best sleep she will ever have in her life /wink

Will work for sex........
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Old 09-09-2007, 09:44 AM   #57
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Will work for sex........

My kind of guy !
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Old 09-09-2007, 03:45 PM   #58
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Wow, go away for a week and you miss some great ones. OldWizard, what century were you born in? How in the heck were you doing so little when you were both employed? As Nord's said - this is supposed to be a partnership. I always did all the cooking and DW cleaned. Since I ERd, and while she continues to work, I added in a lot of the cleaning AND I chauffeur her to work. She is happy as a clam (with those things -- as for work she is getting close to pulling the plug).

The easiest route to your happiness is keeping your wife happy. You sound like you are intentionally driving off a cliff.
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Old 09-09-2007, 04:18 PM   #59
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to reiterate: talk talk and then talk some more. There are different expectations going on here. No sneaking around (pretend to get a job), no unspoken expectations (that is what has gotten you into this mess in the first place). The official rules are now different.

FWIW, DH and I share cooking, cleaning, yard work, laundry, etc. (Ok, at 4' 10.5" chain saws and other large "manly" tools scare me because I don't feel I can handle them safely.) Yeah, we each tend toward one or another chore, but fill in as needed. I wouldn't have picked him if it was any other way. I don't want to digress to the man= laundry=sexy conversation, this is a partnership, where there are 57 hours of things to do each 24 hour day.
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Old 09-09-2007, 07:29 PM   #60
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Oldbabe, good grief. . . i was trying to be somewhat funny while making a point but apparently was not too successful at it. By your implication I guess I would be "hopping into bed" with every handyman and yardman who comes by. Chores definitely do NOT equal sex.

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Sorry I misunderstood, TexasGal. It was interesting to read your explanation.
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