One in four Uber drivers over 55

[Aiming_4_55]

I used Uber and Lyft recently while in Hawaii/Los Angeles airport as a primary source of transportation. 1 out of 8 drivers appear to be 55 or older; 3 out of 8 appeared to be 45 or older, but under 55; 3 were female drivers.

I don't believe Lyft charge different rates due to supply and demand, but not sure.

I used a combination of new user promo codes for DW and myself and referrals to save about $100 total on the first few rides.

 

[mpeirce]

Uber doesn't "hire drivers". Uber drivers are independent contractors.

Uber makes money from matching up riders and drivers and handling the money.

 

[W2R]

Like this driver, you mean?

But Flyboy said that riders get to see a photo of the driver. Can they refuse the ride based on that photo? Would it be age discrimination?

Hey! Where'd you get that photo of me? (Just kidding around). But really, I have been known to drive too slowly, sometimes miss a stop sign, and so on. My upcoming cataract surgery may help with the latter, but I am still a pretty crummy driver compared with the way I used to drive when I was younger.

 

[photoguy]

Uber doesn't "hire drivers". Uber drivers are independent contractors.

There's a huge legal battle ongoing as to whether uber drivers are contractors or employees. Makes a huge difference for the drivers as they would be eligible unemployment insurance and SS payments by uber.


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[rodi]

Not only that, but cabbies here are robbed and murdered by their customers all too frequently as it is. Older Uber drivers in New Orleans might as well paint a target on their foreheads, IMO.
.

As mentioned - the lack of cash makes them less of a target compared to regular cabbies.

A few more thoughts -
- they do more than a credit check on the driver - it's a background check, looking at criminal records, legal status, etc. (Our piano teacher has a green card, but is not a US citizen... it delayed her app slightly while they verified this.)
- the cars are "marked" sort of - they have the Uber "U" sticker in the window.

 

[papadad111]

I signed up and drive for uber in a relatively small college town. It's fun on late nights and weekends to pick up football fans, and the occasional drunk college kids ...

First week I made 75 bucks in about 4 hours gross. After taxes and fuel it's probably more like minimum wage or 10 bucks per hour net.

I picked up a group of 5 girls and one girl barfed in my car. Oh no ....
Uber paid me a 200 dollar cleaning fee.

I usually only take a fare when it's "surge" pricing which is anywhere from 1.2x to 4x the "normal" rate. Not enough money to drive during "normal" rates. Surge pricing is when it's raining or late at night as the bars are closing.

My strategy: Only Uber When the gas gauge is on 1/4, I take enough fares to pay for the refill of the gas tank. Then I'm done for the day or week.

Usually I can earn 15 bucks per hour. Sometimes if you get the surge pricing just right , you can make 1 trip in 10-15 minutes and earn the 15 bucks and stop driving and fill the gas tank I've never been tipped but that's coz it's a college town and students have no money - my guess is their parents put money on their uber account..

I just Can't see people making a living doing this. Too much depreciation wear and tear on their auto over the long run. Then there's taxes and tires and fuel Etc.

Uber provides 1 million liability cover of you have an accident while carrying a passenger. A personal umbrella and your own auto insurance should cover you too.

For me it's just a fun way to chat with people to know what's happening around town and to pay for my gas and as a service to ensure they get home safely.

That's it.

Not a good way to earn a living. I would bet that garage saleing and Selling junk on eBay is more consistent and profitable for a side hustle if you're looking for one.

And what do u think -- possible masters degree thesis is going to be on whether uber drivers or panhandlers with the cardboard sign net more money on a per hour basis ....

 

[ERD50]

... Oh no ....
Uber paid me a 200 dollar cleaning fee.

... Uber provides 1 million liability cover of you have an accident while carrying a passenger. A personal umbrella and your own auto insurance should cover you too. ...

I'm curious about how it works that Uber pays a cleaning fee? Do they go back and charge the customer? Or maybe I don't want to know -

I'll predict that if you asked your insurance company about this, they'd say "OH, you are using your car for business, not personal use? Hold on while we get some information from you and recalculate your rates (up!)."

I'd fully expect them to deny any claims while you are acting as an Uber driver, unless you specifically are covered, and paying for, business use.

-ERD50

 

[papadad111]

Yes. They charge the booking customer - you have to document the evidence. Photos and such. Pain in the ass.

My auto insurance and umbrella cover me. Others may not. Best to Check into it.

It's rated same like delivering pizza. Most often auto rates are adjusted based on miles annually driven regardless if it's work or pleasure driving.

 

[2017ish]

I signed up and drive for uber in a relatively small college town. It's fun on late nights and weekends to pick up football fans, and the occasional drunk college kids ...

...

I usually only take a fare when it's "surge" pricing which is anywhere from 1.2x to 4x the "normal" rate. Not enough money to drive during "normal" rates. Surge pricing is when it's raining or late at night as the bars are closing.

....

for those interested, here is an elegantly simple paper on the impact of Uber's surge pricing on the supply curve, which shows that papadad111 is far from alone: http://faculty.chicagobooth.edu/chris.nosko/research/effects_of_uber's_surge_pricing.pdf

Just what one would expect, but a nice natural experiment.

 

[papadad111]

No different,really,than paying time and a half or double time to get enough worker in to man the shop on Christmas Eve or Thanksgiving day. Efficient markets theory at work. Supply and demand.

 

[jazz4cash]

I signed up and drive for uber in a relatively small college town. It's fun on late nights and weekends to pick up football fans, and the occasional drunk college kids ...

First week I made 75 bucks in about 4 hours gross. After taxes and fuel it's probably more like minimum wage or 10 bucks per hour net.

I picked up a group of 5 girls and one girl barfed in my car. Oh no ....
Uber paid me a 200 dollar cleaning fee.

I usually only take a fare when it's "surge" pricing which is anywhere from 1.2x to 4x the "normal" rate. Not enough money to drive during "normal" rates. Surge pricing is when it's raining or late at night as the bars are closing.

My strategy: Only Uber When the gas gauge is on 1/4, I take enough fares to pay for the refill of the gas tank. Then I'm done for the day or week.

Usually I can earn 15 bucks per hour. Sometimes if you get the surge pricing just right , you can make 1 trip in 10-15 minutes and earn the 15 bucks and stop driving and fill the gas tank I've never been tipped but that's coz it's a college town and students have no money - my guess is their parents put money on their uber account..

I just Can't see people making a living doing this. Too much depreciation wear and tear on their auto over the long run. Then there's taxes and tires and fuel Etc.

Uber provides 1 million liability cover of you have an accident while carrying a passenger. A personal umbrella and your own auto insurance should cover you too.

For me it's just a fun way to chat with people to know what's happening around town and to pay for my gas and as a service to ensure they get home safely.

That's it.

Not a good way to earn a living. I would bet that garage saleing and Selling junk on eBay is more consistent and profitable for a side hustle if you're looking for one.

And what do u think -- possible masters degree thesis is going to be on whether uber drivers or panhandlers with the cardboard sign net more money on a per hour basis ....

I definitely think you should do the masters thesis as long as you don't have to actually do the panhandler thing.

This is the best description of Uber I have found anywhere! It "connects the dots", fills in some holes and confirms many conclusions I drew (based on limited information). As you can see there are many mis-perceptions wrt how it works. I discussed this "opportunity" with some like minded friends and family and looked into it a bit. The one solid conclusion I drew is that customers love it vs. regular cabs. I spent some time lurking on the Uber forum and it appears most drivers don't understand the cost of wear and tear. Many did not understand how to deduct their costs for taxes either. My conclusion is that a very few folks figure out how to make Uber worthwhile (such as pappadad), but most will work for awhile and eventually realize they are not making as much as they think they are (e.g. when its time for tires or brakes) and move on. That would suit Uber just fine as high turnover won't necessarily impair the model.

Except for being over-regulated bureuacracies, I don't know why big city cab systems would not incorporate a software and payment system similar to Uber. It would address their two biggest issues: driver safety and payment.

 

[Daniel J]

Does Uber deduct taxes, etc. from driver compensation? If not I bet many will be in for a rude surprise at tax time when they get the 1099 . . . .

 

[MooreBonds]

My auto insurance and umbrella cover me. Others may not. Best to Check into it.

It's rated same like delivering pizza. Most often auto rates are adjusted based on miles annually driven regardless if it's work or pleasure driving.

Ummm....you might want to double check that. In my experience, anytime you are involving commerce, insurance coverage rates will definitely go up. That's why every single time I've ever gotten a quote on my personal vehicle, they always ask "do you use your car for business use?". The liability exposure is much, much greater if it involves commercial use.

Even moreso if you are carrying passengers! I just can't see an insurance company charging you the same whether you use it for personal use or drive other people around for hire. It takes the commercial liability aspect of auto coverage and sends even that through the roof.

No different if you were operating your home as a bed and breakfast versus just living in it yourself. Or if you had a boat you drove around yourself versus doing boating charters.

It's not the same as delivering pizzas because you are carrying someone around as a passenger. The risk exposure to the insurer of anything happening are so much greater than if you were just driving around a car delivering a pizza.

 

[martyp]

I used Uber for the first time last week in NY City and Miami. Two of my four drivers were over 50 yrs of age. I have to say I liked the experience. It was easy to set up on my iPhone. I got picked up very quickly and I liked not having to use cash. The cars were clean and new. The drivers were very careful drivers.

Two of the Uber rides I had in late night Manhattan were about the same price as the one taxi ride I took. However, trips to the airport in NYC and Miami were half the price of the regular cabs.

 

[papadad111]

Ummm....you might want to double check that.

It's not the same as delivering pizzas because you are carrying someone around as a passenger. The risk exposure to the insurer of anything happening are so much greater than if you were just driving around a car delivering a pizza.

Actually, I've checked and double checked - pause, old timers - it is not exactly logical but the insurance companies actually have begun to catch up with the whole "sharing economy" concept.

https://www.policygenius.com/blog/uber-lyft-and-other-rideshare-drivers-now-have-insurance-options/

Read the entire article. Read the follow on comments too. They talk about prior gaps and the many insurance companies now changing policies to accommodate ride sharing.

Also talks about the cover that uber provides while on a ride call.

Of course, Having a good umbrella policy is always smart for added protection.

 

[papadad111]

Does Uber deduct taxes, etc. from driver compensation? If not I bet many will be in for a rude surprise at tax time when they get the 1099 . . . .

No withholding or SS. This is Self employment income. Drivers have to file quarterly.

 

[papadad111]

, I don't know why big city cab systems would not incorporate a software and payment system similar to Uber. It would address their two biggest issues: driver safety and payment.

The issue with big cab companies is cost. They can accept e-payments and usually are safe but they cost 2x-3x the cost of uber to take a ride

One must ask economically how uber can be so much cheaper. Well... The hidden costs are passed on and absorbed by the uneducated or unaware driver .. As stated - car wear and tear. Depreciation. Insurance and spare parts and taxes.

And when drivers realize this and drop off / leave, uber just finds new drivers. There is a reason uber pay a 150 dollar finders fee for new drivers.

The economics don't lie. The winners are the riders. And uber as a company. The drivers are the squeeze point. They may be able to pocket some quick cash for a couple months but the pay is below minimum wage in a sustained basis for all but the most clever drivers who know how to work the surge pricing and receive off the books tips (which uber highly discourages) ...

 

[Nunthewiser]

^^ Does the rider have any choice or feedback about the type of car he/she gets to ride in? I might consider doing this , just maybe , because I can beat the depreciation aspect. I already have a small fleet of old diesels that were pretty much made for taxi duty. For example Mercedes 240Ds that were once the standard taxi in Germany. Perfectly functional, but 1980s safety and comfort standards.

 

[MooreBonds]

Actually, I've checked and double checked - pause, old timers - it is not exactly logical but the insurance companies actually have begun to catch up with the whole "sharing economy" concept.

https://www.policygenius.com/blog/uber-lyft-and-other-rideshare-drivers-now-have-insurance-options/

Read the entire article. Read the follow on comments too. They talk about prior gaps and the many insurance companies now changing policies to accommodate ride sharing.

Also talks about the cover that uber provides while on a ride call.

Ok. I went to the website and read the article. It lists 12 out of 50 states where a few insurance companies have NEW POLICIES, usually underwritten by their COMMERCIAL divisions.

Earlier, you said:

My auto insurance and umbrella cover me. Others may not. Best to Check into it.

It's rated same like delivering pizza. Most often auto rates are adjusted based on miles annually driven regardless if it's work or pleasure driving.

I read your statement to imply that your (and most other peoples') standard personal auto coverage would work just fine if you were an Uber/Lyft driver, without any need to change. The website you listed has every single example referencing either a commerical division with a product specifically designed for ride-sharing, or a new policy/rider that costs more than a standard personal auto policy. Clearly implying that it's not just your standard, run-of-the-mill personal auto policy that the insurance company doesn't care if you are a driver-for-hire or not.

Also, to directly counter your earlier claim, one company stated in their press release that

business use “traditionally has covered people who use their personal cars for things like delivering pizza or flowers, but has historically excluded… people who use their cars as taxis.” Erie’s new insurance products lifts that exclusion.

They are specifically ending this clear exclusion for those who use their cars as taxis, with their new insurance product. Implying that it's still a standard exclusion in their auto policies that isn't the "same as delivering pizza" - or else there is no point in noting this important development.

 

[papadad111]

I'm not looking to nit pick or argue. You can infer what ever you want but don't come in here looking for a fight or being snarky because you infer something differently.

By all means, Do your homework.

Via USAA, I'm covered which is all I care about ! For me it was no change required to my policy.

I guess any individual uber driver depending on state, insurance carrier, net worth, umbrella policy etc etc would be wise to check and do the same if they felt the so called "gap" in coverage was a big deal.

I checked and I'm cool

 

[papadad111]

Reference beating depreciation - uber requires vehicle to be 2005 or newer and presumably each year that gets bumped up by a year to prevent POS vehicles from being used ... For safety Etc etc.

It's quite interesting this sharing economy.

In our day we would have never hitch hiked or accepted a ride from a stranger.

It's a new world.

 

[bmcgonig]

No withholding or SS. This is Self employment income. Drivers have to file quarterly.

Do they send out 1099s ?


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[Nunthewiser]

Reference beating depreciation - uber requires vehicle to be 2005 or newer and presumably each year that gets bumped up by a year to prevent POS vehicles from being used ... For safety Etc etc.

Well, I'm out. They are really playing their drivers for chumps then (no offense to you papadad). There is no way for drivers to make any real money (as opposed to cash) burning up a new car for the kind of return they are talking about.

 

[papadad111]

Do they send out 1099s ?


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Yes. They do send out 1099.

 

[papadad111]

Well, I'm out. They are really playing their drivers for chumps then (no offense to you papadad). There is no way for drivers to make any real money (as opposed to cash) burning up a new car for the kind of return they are talking about.

No offense taken. I signed up as an experiment really, no intention of making this my living !! But like everyone on here I was curious so rather than hearsay , I jumped in with both feet and gave it a go.

Yes. I agree with your position vis a vis drivers.

Now If there were hundreds of drivers all ride sharing, in theory they would be like me, making one or two for hire trips a week to pay for gas etc and that would hardly be noticed in the depreciation or wear and tear department. Being a dad and having chauffeured teens all over the place, an extra trip or two maybe won't matter much .

But long term the driver pay and cost math just doesn't make any sense to me either.

What's more troubling is the original thread comment that 1 in 4 is over 55 and may be doing this to cover their pension or SS or retirement income shortfall - Maybe a short term cash fix but long term not really helping them much.... Almost like a payday loan. Yuck...

It's gonna be a great masters thesis at any rate !