Join Early Retirement Today
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-27-2014, 10:08 AM   #41
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Northern IL
Posts: 18,292
Quote:
Originally Posted by linny727 View Post
This forum is usually respectful to everyone, however, when the topic of public pensions come up, there are nasty folks that have to weigh in. ...
I'm still struggling to understand this. I went back and looked up some of the OPs earlier posts, thinking maybe there was a trigger, and in a recent pension thread there was this post and reply (the only reply):

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by linny727 View Post
My pension is 2.5 at 55, plus 2% cola. I bought 4 years and retired with 28. Took a management position to get higher pay for the formula. Hated being a manager, though i was good at it. Funny thing, I was employed 5 years before I even knew we had a pension and what that would mean. And thank god for it, I'm not a saver.
Quote:
70% pay at 55 w/ 2% COLA is pretty sweet. Congrats!
"Congrats!" is 'hostile'?

I think it's fair to say a 70% at age 55 with 2% COLA is 'sweet'. For my 28 years, I'd get ~ 20% at 55, no COLA. Survivor benefits would cut it further.

Of course there are other factors to compare - (401K, company contributions, salary, bonuses, work environment, job security, and on and on), so it's probably senseless to try to compare overall. And I did have to save and invest like crazy. But a straight comparison of the pension itself - I think 'sweet' is appropriate.

-ERD50
__________________

__________________
ERD50 is online now  
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 02-27-2014, 10:20 AM   #42
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
HFWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lawn chair in Texas
Posts: 12,964
__________________

__________________
Have Funds, Will Retire

...not doing anything of true substance...
HFWR is offline  
Old 02-27-2014, 10:35 AM   #43
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
travelover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,899
I think that pension envy is just an extension of other financial envy. I see occasional sniping here about it, but the resentment is probably greater between forum contributors and their acquaintances and relatives, than between forum members.
__________________
Yes, I have achieved work / life balance.
travelover is offline  
Old 02-27-2014, 10:57 AM   #44
Dryer sheet aficionado
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 33
In regard to post #33: My pension is based on my high five years salary which DOES NOT include sick leave and vacation pay. It does include overtime of which I get none.

I am extremely thankful that I will have one (pension) after 37 years at the same place. Some sacrifices perhaps, due to lower public service pay.

Our pension plan is nearly fully funded by primarily by investment returns as well as employer/employee contributions.
__________________
freetodream is offline  
Old 02-27-2014, 10:58 AM   #45
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Harrogate, UK
Posts: 864
I sure like having a pension, couldn't have retired early without it. But not all pensions are the same of course. I am retired Govt and am getting about 20% of my salary (about $960mth take-home). I look at a lot of state employees etc and see way over 50% coverage.....sure wish I had that. But.....I had some other benefits along the way. They paid my housing, which allowed me to save more money. I did see a lot more pension hating (internet in general) a few years ago....but I think that is normal. When times are bad people are looking for someone.....anyone....to lynch. They want somebody to pay for the situation they are in. Heck.....I still want most politicians and any of those financial people who screwed the system and then get away with it to pay
__________________
F4mandolin is offline  
Old 02-27-2014, 11:05 AM   #46
Moderator
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,613
Quote:
Originally Posted by F4mandolin View Post
I did see a lot more pension hating (internet in general) a few years ago....but I think that is normal. When times are bad people are looking for someone.....anyone....to lynch.
Especially when the media encourage people to blame each other and encourage intolerance and demonization for people on the other side of an issue.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

RIP to Reemy, my avatar dog (2003 - 9/16/2017)
ziggy29 is offline  
Old 02-27-2014, 11:22 AM   #47
Full time employment: Posting here.
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Harrogate, UK
Posts: 864
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
Especially when the media encourage people to blame each other and encourage intolerance and demonization for people on the other side of an issue.
Add media to the list of folks that I don't trust. They do whatever they need to for more viewership. My list seems to keep getting longer......
__________________
F4mandolin is offline  
Old 02-27-2014, 11:28 AM   #48
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Amethyst's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 5,900
Goodness. I would never have guessed you were anything but a native English speaker and writer, and a very fluent one at that (not all native english speakers are fluent in their own tongue!) Those commenters must have a screw loose be far more discriminating about English than is common.

Amethyst

Quote:
Originally Posted by obgyn65 View Post
I have been on the receiving end of some BS here on topics such as... my writing style since I am a non-English native speaker
__________________
If you understood everything I say, you'd be me ~ Miles Davis
'There is only one success to be able to spend your life in your own way. Christopher Morley.
Amethyst is offline  
Old 02-27-2014, 11:40 AM   #49
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 296
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2B View Post
I don't "hate" the public pensions. I would probably say I'm probably one of the most consistent in commenting that given the situation of many government bodies the financial reality is that public pensions are not totally risk free. This risk is something to keep in the back of your mind when planning. I'm sure the typical pensioner in Detroit did not abuse the system. The elected politicians did abuse the system by not properly funding these pensions. The unions did not meaningfully raise the issue assuming that the pensions would be paid whether or not the pension fund was adequate. Well, we all know now that it wasn't. It still hasn't been all sorted out but I don't think many expect the pensions to be paid in full.

Do I think that is good? No, I do not but it is reality. There are lots of things that are "unfair" but they happen. Goverments should never have promised what they clearly were not properly funding. These issues should have been addressed decades ago. Public pension benefits may have been reduced but they could have been properly funded. Short sighted politcos bought union favor and support with what is now turning out to be false promises.

I think we've all heard of public pension abuses where the pension system can be manipulated to push benefits far higher than what was probably assumed when calculating the benefits and contributions. Many public pension funds are seriously underfunded. To me that is an outrage. The answer is fiscal responsibility and that may mean reducing benefits in some form or fashion and/or eliminating the ability to cram higher benefits shortly before retirement.

This issue is not only in the big rust belt cities but it is also a real issue here in Houston. The public pension funds for the City of Houston are in terrible shape. Something will have to give soon even for one of the fastest growing areas of the country.
I would also point out that this is not limited to public pensions. Private pensions have collapsed due to mismanagement which has led to reduction in promised benefits. For example, airline pilots and autoworkers.

Both my wife and I have company pensions that we will start receiving in a few years. This makes me comfortable with a more aggressive AA than I would be otherwise.
__________________
This sig intentionally left blank.
gozer is offline  
Old 02-27-2014, 11:44 AM   #50
Recycles dryer sheets
Rosie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NorCal
Posts: 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
Especially when the media encourage people to blame each other and encourage intolerance and demonization for people on the other side of an issue.
+1

FWIW, a friend of mine worked all her life for the state of CA and retired recently. She mentioned that calPERS pensioners like herself get some guff from various sources, but she didn't elaborate and I never gave it much thought.

What reminded me of that was the very recent thread here concerning calPERS, in which there was a very snarky and uncalled-for comment. It really took me aback, I always thought this forum was above all that. I suspect that comment was one of the motivators for this thread.

I'm glad to see that comment has since been removed from that thread.
__________________
Rosie is offline  
Old 02-27-2014, 11:47 AM   #51
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
2B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 4,330
Quote:
Originally Posted by freetodream View Post
I am extremely thankful that I will have one (pension) after 37 years at the same place. Some sacrifices perhaps, due to lower public service pay.
The less pay for public employees seem to be a "given" for public sector workers. It may have been true in the past and it may be true for your specific position. I will say that in the O&G business the technically competent public sector employees are very underpaid but have a much more stable employment environment. Unfortunately, I've repeatedly had to deal with idiots technically challenged public sector employees.

Here's a semi-recent study. Like all such articles there are lots of questions on methods and apples to apples issues. I wonder if there is any relationship to public vs private employment with the richest counties in the country surround Washington DC.

Public sector workers make more in salary and benefits than those in private sector, Labor Department says | cleveland.com

I'm not trying to start a fight or be labeled a "hater." I just wish to not accept the presumption that "I'm in the public sector so I make/made less than if I was in the public sector." If it was true, why are people lining up for public sector openings?
__________________
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane -- Marcus Aurelius
2B is offline  
Old 02-27-2014, 11:47 AM   #52
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
steelyman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Triangle
Posts: 3,218
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amethyst View Post
Goodness. I would never have guessed you were anything but a native English speaker and writer, and a very fluent one at that (not all native english speakers are fluent in their own tongue!) Those commenters must have a screw loose be far more discriminating about English than is common.

Amethyst

I've never been accused of being an English speaker around here (nor has anyone been rude). I have, though, been accused of being a rapper!
__________________

steelyman is offline  
Old 02-27-2014, 11:49 AM   #53
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
seraphim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,492
Merely repeating what others have said:

Have a pension, only observed one case of semi-hostile pension envy, and my pension allows me a more aggressive AA, not a more conservative one ( as someone mentioned early on).

Thing is, most people DO have a pension, and a defined benefit pension at that. It's called Social Security. My pension is similar, except I paid a higher percentage than SS recipients do, and - as a result - get a higher percentage of my previous income. I don't qualify for SS - had I no investments, that would be all I have.
__________________
"Growing old is no excuse for growing up."
seraphim is offline  
Old 02-27-2014, 11:52 AM   #54
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
2B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Houston
Posts: 4,330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosie View Post
+1

FWIW, a friend of mine worked all her life for the state of CA and retired recently. She mentioned that calPERS pensioners like herself get some guff from various sources, but she didn't elaborate and I never gave it much thought.
My SIL will start a CALPERS pension soon. She expects that there will be some issues with the promised amount being continued indefinitely. I don't give her any guff about the pension. SIL and BIL are in the process of moving out of CA so they don't have to pay CA income taxes on the pension and their other income.

I'm all in favor of people getting whatever is legally theirs. The villains of the whole process is the politicos that failed to fund these potentially empty promises.
__________________
The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane -- Marcus Aurelius
2B is offline  
Old 02-27-2014, 11:52 AM   #55
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
seraphim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,492
"
I'm not trying to start a fight or be labeled a "hater." I just wish to not accept the presumption that "I'm in the public sector so I make/made less than if I was in the public sector." If it was true, why are people lining up for public sector openings?"

I took mine because of perceived job security. Took a pay cut to do so. I could have made more in the private sector, or could have lost a job been stuck in unemployment. With a family, I placed the security of having a job over the possibility of making more money.
__________________
"Growing old is no excuse for growing up."
seraphim is offline  
Old 02-27-2014, 12:02 PM   #56
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,437
I have found this forum to have quite a cross section of society. This makes for interesting and sometimes lively discussion. I really don't recall a bias against pensions. Pensions are simply another retirement vehicle. However I do beleive when people here are giving advice, say my AA is 90-100 equities, they should also disclose that they have a pension for their living expenses.
From a legacy standpoint I would much rather have a large IRA than a pension that goes away upon my demise. Others plan to leave nothing and can purchase an annuity if desired. To each his own.
Some of us have also worked for a number years at a company only to have the pension frozen or eliminated. I got hit with this after 14 years, but have had another 20 to recover. To compensate for the loss the company contributes a fixed 5% of income each year. After 20 years it helped.
You play the hand your dealt.
__________________
Retired in 2016. Living off dividends / interest and a mini pension. Freedom.
foxfirev5 is offline  
Old 02-27-2014, 12:09 PM   #57
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
robnplunder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 2,124
I am a bit puzzled why the OP's post is not removed as soon as it was posted. It had no basis, and seemed to be a post designed to goad others into arguments. I've seen no pension haters in this forum to justify the OP's post, not any more or worse than other "haters" (the OP's terminology, not mine). We all have our likes and dislikes but keep things civil.
__________________
Pura Vida
robnplunder is offline  
Old 02-27-2014, 12:13 PM   #58
Moderator Emeritus
aja8888's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: The Woodlands, TX
Posts: 7,168
I have a pension. It's called Social Security. I paid into it for 50 years. It's COLA'd. Right now I receive about 20% of my last few years' average salary. Uncle Sam can mess with it as he makes the rules. I'll bet there are people in this country getting SS pension's and never paid into the system.

I probably should have taken a different route to where I am now, but that's life.
__________________
aja8888 is offline  
Old 02-27-2014, 12:18 PM   #59
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
MasterBlaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,359
Quote:
Originally Posted by soupcxan
I
Quote:
don't have a problem with public pensions.

I have a problem with public employees that spike their last year of service with huge amounts of overtime, vacation time, accrued sick time, and then that one year becomes the basis for a lifetime of payouts.
I believe even most "advocates" or "defenders" of DB pensions would agree this is an abuse and should be greatly curtailed, if not banned completely. It is utterly absurd that some people can bring home an annual pension that exceeds even the highest salary they ever earned in their lifetime. However, it's also the case that the outraged media types and bloggers are going to make this practice look a lot more common and egregious than it usually is in real life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by soupcxan
Quote:
I have a problem with public employees who "retire" but then continue working the exact same job, now collecting a pension plus their paychecks. Double dipping.
It feels like cheating in a sense, but to the taxpayer it's really not much different than if this person didn't retire. They are no longer accruing pension benefits, and had they left, they'd be paying someone else's salary AND pension benefits. So I'm really not sure in terms of hit to the taxpayer, this is really a problem -- at least not if the actuarial payouts are sound. This leaves them, an extra worker who is not receiving pension benefits as part of their current compensation.


I'm not a hater, but someone explain to me as a taxpayer why we should tolerate this ?

In California this (spiking and double-dipping) abuse continues. The unions run the show behind the scenes and will never allow changes to what what most people would consider abuse to their system.


There are many examples where government employees retire with pensions greater than their salary because they were allowed to cash in unused "sick time' accrued over decades and work lots of overtime in the final year.

The biggest expense for many school districts is retiree pensions and health care. And the kids suffer for it.

As an aside there is a poster on this forum who retired from the State of Nevada at age 43 by buying "airtime" for next to nothing. Nearly there!. I can understand this person's motivation, have no I'll-will towards him and wish him well, but wouldn't a reasonable (tax-paying) person think that this system is just wrong ?

__________________
MasterBlaster is offline  
Old 02-27-2014, 12:18 PM   #60
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
HFWR's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Lawn chair in Texas
Posts: 12,964
Quote:
Originally Posted by aja8888 View Post
I probably should have taken a different route to where I am now, but that's life.
Yeah, in my next life I want to be a trust fund baby...
__________________

__________________
Have Funds, Will Retire

...not doing anything of true substance...
HFWR is offline  
Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Comparing a military E-7 active-duty pension to an E-7 Reserve pension Nords Other topics 10 12-14-2010 11:34 PM
What makes a pension a "good" pension axtec FIRE and Money 25 12-11-2009 08:38 PM
There are pension funds, and pension funds.... Meadbh FIRE and Money 0 07-07-2007 03:19 PM
PayPal haters rejoice - Google comes to the rescue!.... Cut-Throat Other topics 9 07-10-2006 09:34 AM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:04 PM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.