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Old 07-15-2007, 08:56 AM   #61
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No one will be saying that about me.....hell as soon as I reach my 500K, I am semi-retiring and then full retirment at 1 M.....I am sure my higher power didn't put me on this earth to be defined by a JOB.....I am supposed to find out who I am, what I can contribute to society, and to help people in my day to day life.
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Old 07-15-2007, 11:35 AM   #62
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I have a friend that has more money than he can ever spend and could quit with a monthly pension of 17K per month. He says he keeps working for the perks. He flys all over the world on a company jet and has great company outings.
He is starting to think about it though.
I wonder if we should anonymously send a copy of "Work Less, Live More" or the Kaderli's CD to people like that...
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Old 07-15-2007, 01:38 PM   #63
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No one will be saying that about me.....hell as soon as I reach my 500K, I am semi-retiring and then full retirment at 1 M.....I am sure my higher power didn't put me on this earth to be defined by a JOB.....I am supposed to find out who I am, what I can contribute to society, and to help people in my day to day life.
Hi, citrine!

I'm older than you and have a long way to go yet to reach my full-retirement goals but a few or your recent posts are making me think about following a semi-ER path.

Really, quite a few other posters, with ESRBob as the most notable, have followed this path and brought up the idea on the board, but sometimes it takes repeated mentions of an idea before I go "Hmmm, why not?"...or maybe it's just the way you phrased it in the above post...

Good luck with your goals!
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Old 07-15-2007, 02:24 PM   #64
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One of my colleagues was recently persuaded to hang up his shingle at the age of 85. He was a workaholic, but his departure was long past due.

I think Tadpole's example of the federal employee who is back working full time in his 70s is going to become increasingly common. North America is aging and in 10-20 years time, barring an avalanche of immigrants or another baby boom, there will not be enough young people to fill all the jobs. Even now I see pressure on retirees to come back to work in one form or another and I expect to experience it myself when I send in that resignation letter.

I will need all your support to resist the temptation!
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Old 07-15-2007, 03:16 PM   #65
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So, whats the big deal? Not everyone is the same. If they were the world would really suck, wouldn't it? It's pretty simple really, some people enjoy a non-working retired type of lifestyle, others enjoy a more challenging life in the world of work. Of course some poor fools have no choice!!

For me it would ultimately depend upon the work I was doing. If I really loved what I was doing, why would I ever quit? If I were trapped in a cubicle doing work that made me ill, well, that'd be a horse of a different color....
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Old 07-30-2007, 03:45 PM   #66
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Nacchio was worth over $500 million in 2000 and he still wanted more!!! I bet he would have retired early if he knew then what he knows now. A 4% SWR would have given him $20 million a year for the rest of his life.

Ex-Qwest Chief Nacchio Gets 6 Years for Inside Trades

By David Voreacos
Joseph Nacchio, former CEO of Qwest


July 27 (Bloomberg) -- Joseph Nacchio, former chief executive officer of Qwest Communications International Inc., was sentenced to six years in prison for trading $52 million in company shares based on inside information about falling revenue.
U.S. District Judge Edward Nottingham ordered Nacchio to forfeit $52 million and pay a fine of $19 million, refusing his request for probation. Prosecutors sought a prison term of more than seven years. The judge denied Nacchio's request for bail while he appeals his April 19 conviction, saying he must surrender within 15 days of his assignment to a prison.
``The crimes of which the defendant has been found guilty are crimes of overarching greed,'' Nottingham said in sentencing Nacchio today in Denver. ``The defendant cannot but have condoned a culture in which this could have occurred.''
He joins a growing list of CEOs sentenced to prison in the wave of U.S. prosecutions that began after Enron Corp. went bankrupt in 2001. Ex-WorldCom Inc. founder Bernard Ebbers, 65, is serving 25 years for securities fraud, and former Enron CEO Jeffrey Skilling is doing 24 years. Conrad Black, the former CEO of Hollinger International Inc., was convicted July 13 of fraud and obstruction and will be sentenced Nov. 30.
Jurors found Nacchio guilty of 19 counts of insider trading for selling $52 million in Qwest shares from April 26 to May 29, 2001, based on private warnings that the company would miss revenue targets. Nacchio, 58, sold shares at the start of an accounting scandal that nearly bankrupted Denver-based Qwest.
`Horatio Alger Story'
``In many ways, Mr. Nacchio is the classic Horatio Alger story, somebody who rose from immigrant parents and rose to enormous heights by sheer will and talent,'' the judge said. ``Mr. Nacchio was what this nation expects from corporate executives -- aggressive, tough, and demanding.''
Nottingham, who said Nacchio must serve two years of supervised release after prison, said he is not above the law.
``If it is perceived that there is one law for the rich and one law for everyone else, the law ultimately falls into disrespect,'' the judge said. ``The law does not care that you are wealthy.''
Nacchio did not speak when the judge invited him to before sentencing, instead trying to talk at the end of the 3 1/2-hour hearing. Both his lawyer and the judge told him not to speak.
``Yes, but I'm the defendant,'' Nacchio said. ``I promise it will be respectful.''
Nottingham then adjourned the hearing. Nacchio did not comment to reporters as he left the courthouse.
`Wonderful Father'
Defense lawyer Herbert Stern sought leniency, citing Nacchio's charitable works and need to care for a 26-year-old son with severe psychological disabilities. Nacchio wiped away tears during comments about his son. The judge said that while Nacchio is a ``wonderful father,'' the son would get adequate medical care and strong support from Nacchio's wife, Anne.
Nottingham also said greed compelled Nacchio to take the Qwest job and spend four days a week away from his home in Mendham, New Jersey, when he could have stayed with his son.
Assistant U.S. Attorney Cliff Stricklin had sought a stronger sentence of seven years and three months, saying it must deter other executives.
``He set the message for that company, and people looked to him for that message,'' Stricklin said. ``Joe Nacchio was Qwest. People looked to him for the truth, and they didn't get it.''
Nacchio, who was CEO from 1997 to 2002, joined Qwest from AT&T Inc.. He built Qwest into the fourth-largest U.S. phone company and presided over a $100 billion drop in market value.
Prison Recommendation
Stern asked that Nottingham recommend to the Bureau of Prisons that Nacchio serve his term at the Schuylkill Federal Correctional Institution in Minersville, Pennsylvania. The judge said he would.
The prison houses other executives convicted of white-collar crimes, including former Cendant Corp. Vice Chairman E. Kirk Shelton and ex-Rite Aid Corp. chief counsel Franklin C. Brown.
Prosecutors said at trial that Nacchio should have disclosed that Qwest's recurring revenue was falling short in 2001 even as the market for one-time sales of its network capacity was shrinking. Nacchio accelerated his stock sales upon learning in April 2001 that Qwest missed its first-quarter forecasts for recurring revenue, the evidence showed.
Nacchio still faces a lawsuit from the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission that accuses him of directing a $3 billion accounting fraud. He also faces investor lawsuits.
Qwest shares reached a closing high of $64.50 in March 2000 based on projected use of its fiber-optic network. Shares sank to $1.11 in August 2002. Richard Notebaert, Nacchio's successor, averted a collapse by selling the company's phone-book unit and slashing borrowings to $17 billion from $26 billion.
One-Time Sales
Evidence at his trial showed Nacchio refused to disclose Qwest's use of one-time sales of network capacity while overstating the growth of recurring revenue.
Two analysts told jurors they lowered their opinion of Qwest after the company began to disclose in August 2001 the extent of its reliance on one-time sales.
The government contended Nacchio accelerated his stock sales upon learning in April 2001 that Qwest missed its first-quarter forecasts for recurring revenue. Nacchio exercised and sold $34 million in shares from April 26, 2001, to May 1, 2001.
Jurors saw several video clips of Nacchio giving upbeat forecasts. They also heard evidence that his net worth, including stock options, was $547 million in 2000.
The case is U.S. v. Nacchio, 05-cr-545, U.S. District Court, District of Colorado (Denver).

Bloomberg.com: Worldwide
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Old 08-01-2007, 02:06 AM   #67
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I have a colleague that got a HUGE inheritance last year. Our boss pissed her of, so she quit.

A year later and she is back. Her reason was "I can't be with my husband at the same house for so long". It is just too sad.
Marrying the wrong spouse is one of the worst decisions one can make.
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Old 08-01-2007, 04:25 AM   #68
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I have a colleague that got a HUGE inheritance last year. Our boss pissed her of, so she quit.

A year later and she is back. Her reason was "I can't be with my husband at the same house for so long". It is just too sad.
Marrying the wrong spouse is one of the worst decisions one can make.

Sounds like she has a retired husband and she wants to continue to work. Lucky guy.

I have heard similar concerns from co-workers that are nearing retirement. I do not think they felt they were married to the wrong person so much as having basic conflict about being under foot so much. Some of them were worried about having an endless list of chores to do.

I also think it is a little different for two spouses that have worked most of their lives versus a husband that worked and a wife that was a homemaker. When both have worked, the home is kinda new unclaimed territory. When a wife was the homemaker, the husband has entered into the wifes space 24x7 instead of nights and weekends. This was the case of my parents. My father did not quite know what to do with himself for a while and was trying to rely on my mother to fill some of the void that he had when he stopped working. They had an adjustment period, but it worked out just fine. He had no desire to go back to work.
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Old 08-01-2007, 06:44 AM   #69
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Sounds like she has a retired husband and she wants to continue to work. Lucky guy.
Actually he had a stroke more than 10 years ago, so he stays at home since. They never had a financial problems. Her grandfather was a RE tycoon in HK. She always got dividends from the family company. About two years ago they sold all the assets and split the money between the family members. Then she got some big $$$$ and decided to retire.

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I have heard similar concerns from co-workers that are nearing retirement. I do not think they felt they were married to the wrong person so much as having basic conflict about being under foot so much. Some of them were worried about having an endless list of chores to do.

I also think it is a little different for two spouses that have worked most of their lives versus a husband that worked and a wife that was a homemaker. When both have worked, the home is kinda new unclaimed territory. When a wife was the homemaker, the husband has entered into the wifes space 24x7 instead of nights and weekends. This was the case of my parents. My father did not quite know what to do with himself for a while and was trying to rely on my mother to fill some of the void that he had when he stopped working. They had an adjustment period, but it worked out just fine. He had no desire to go back to work.
I guess you are right. I shouldn't be so judgmental. Each couple is different.
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Old 08-28-2007, 11:19 AM   #70
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Former Wal-Mart vice chairman Thomas Coughlin



Coughlin - whose compensation from salary, bonuses, and stock grants totaled several million dollars per year - is discovered to have cooked up fraudulent expense invoices in a scam to siphon off $500,000 over the course of seven years.

Wal-Mart accused him of using Wal-Mart money and gift cards to pay for about $500,000 in personal items -- from hunting trips to alcohol to work on his car.

Coughlin pleaded guilty to tax and fraud charges in January 2006. Dawson sentenced him to 26 months of home detention. Prosecutors appealed, saying the sentence was too light. A panel of the appeals court reached a 2-1 split decision Tuesday (8-28-2007) ordering a new sentencing hearing. The sentencing guidelines called for Coughlin to serve 27 to 33 months in prison.
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Old 08-28-2007, 07:13 PM   #71
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Actually he had a stroke more than 10 years ago, so he stays at home since. They never had a financial problems. Her grandfather was a RE tycoon in HK. She always got dividends from the family company. About two years ago they sold all the assets and split the money between the family members. Then she got some big $$$$ and decided to retire
... and she returned to work? Let's supposed that she does not want to spend that much time her husband (for whatever reason), can she take on a hobby and do something of meaning?
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Old 08-28-2007, 09:41 PM   #72
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I always wondered about that excuse, also...if people want to get out of the house, dont understand why they feel that it has to be at work....
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Old 08-28-2007, 10:54 PM   #73
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Perhaps that's why universitites who appoint professors emeriti provide them with space to hang their coats and mingle. Some of them keep puttering around for years!
The man I replaced on the faculty at my university puttered around for 20 years. He wrote papers and went to conferences. I used to think, "Gee this guy is going to be puttering around here after I retire.

I personally love my job--university professor--and always have. But I have other exciting goals in life. When I finish out the current school year and retire, I will be designated Professor Emeritus, but I won't be puttering around campus and I won't take up office or lab space. I will go to campus to the library from time to time, attend theater and musical productions there, and attend all the home football and basketball games (Go Cougars!), but that's it.

--Scott (soon to be Professor Emeritus, BYU chemistry department)
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Old 05-15-2008, 09:38 AM   #74
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The greed web captures another few victims...

U.S. to Seek Client Names
From UBS In Tax Case


By GLENN R. SIMPSON, CARRICK MOLLENKAMP and DAVID CRAWFORD
May 15, 2008; Page C1


U.S. prosecutors are expected to confront Swiss banking giant UBS AG with a broad subpoena for the names of wealthy American clients who may have used its services to avoid income taxes, according to lawyers and others involved in the case.
The subpoena would follow an indictment, unsealed Tuesday in Florida federal court, of former UBS private banker Bradley Birkenfeld and his alleged accomplice, Mario Staggl, a Liechtenstein businessman skilled in setting up intricate trusts in Europe and offshore tax havens.

Free Preview - WSJ.com

They are accused of helping real estate magnate Igor Olenicoff set up a group of secret bank accounts to avoid paying taxes on $200 million of assets by creating bogus trusts and corporations to hide the ownership of assets while advising clients to destroy bank records and assisting them with filing false tax returns.
Olenicoff pleaded guilty in December to charges of tax evasion and lying on his taxes. He agreed to pay $52 million in back taxes.
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Old 05-23-2008, 09:40 PM   #75
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When you retire, you give up the influence and power that you will not have as a private individual. The higher the position, the more in the public eye, etc., the more you "lose" when you retire. For many people the influence, power and public recognition is the main reason WHY they work. The money they earn is just more "evidence" of how important they are.

Audrey
However, in Imus' case, it should have been plain that the power, influence, etc. come with it's own helping, as The Wire has it, "a steaming serving of sh*t in a silver bowl."
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Old 05-23-2008, 09:51 PM   #76
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Doctors, teachers, etc. are positions that are vocations not jobs and the people who hold those jobs generally love them. However, the initital topic of this thread states that workers are taking unnecessary abuse. There is no way a FI person would put up with that unless they want to hurt themselves (form of masochism) and I know someone like that.
LOL. I'm 80% to my FI target, and I'm finding that I put up with less and less. It doesn't help that I look 8 years younger than I am, so everyone always wonders why I have the balls. I don't think I'm turning into a nasty person, but I can see the turf battles and the ego trips coming, and I just don't want or need any part of them.
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Old 05-24-2008, 11:02 AM   #77
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My DW was to retire last year, on her birthday. In fact, I delayed my retirement from January to May, upon her request.

Well May came - went and she decided to remain in the "j*bforce" (even though I retired May 1).

She told me "she wasn't (emotionally?) ready" and decided to wait till the end of the year.

End of the year came. You know the story; she said she would retire on her birthday this year (actually, next week).

Again, she decided not to. However, rather than tell me she would wait till the end of this year, she said she would wait for her next birthday (May '09).

Does she have interests other than her j*b? Yes.
Is she/we FI? Yes.

So what's the problem? Doing bit of "dream intrepertation" I believe that she looks at retirement as the "step before the grave".

You grow up, go to school, get married/partnered, have kids, they go through school, have their own families, and then your parents are gone (3 of 4 of ours are).

Sometimes, w*rk is viewed (in an emotional sense) as delaying the future.

She realizes this, but still has not accepted that part of life.

Oh well...

- Ron
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Old 05-24-2008, 11:34 AM   #78
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... and she returned to work? Let's supposed that she does not want to spend that much time her husband (for whatever reason), can she take on a hobby and do something of meaning?
I can think of several reasons why she would return to work, as opposed to spending most of her time with a hobby.

First, maybe she actually enjoys her work more than a hobby. Maybe she enjoys the intellectual stimulation, and the sense of accomplishment and contribution to society, more than a hobby would provide.

Second, she can earn money while working, whereas a hobby may cost her money. For example, the hobby of travelling can be very, very expensive.

Third, maybe she didn't want to hurt her husband's feelings. It's one thing so say "Honey, I want to go back to work." It's another to say "Honey, I want to get away from you and do things on my own."
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Old 05-25-2008, 09:06 PM   #79
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I know a fairly senior O-6, a competitive flag candidate, who's gone through an amazing transformation. Before he took over his squadron his attitude toward ER was "How can I afford to do that?!? I love my job!" If you asked him the tactical range that he'd employ a Navy missile you'd get an answer to three significant figures. When I asked if he could estimate his annual expenses I got a Rainman answer: "About $100K."

18 months later, thanks to "Work Less, Live More", he's seen the light. After being nitpicked to death by higher authority enjoying the privileges of his third command, he's more than ready to ER. He and his spouse have determined the minute he's retiring, how much pension he'll get ($67K/year plus a CPI COLA), exactly how much they'll spend (a lot less than $100K/year), and how much time he'll be spending with family. His spouse will retire as a Reservist in a few years and she'll also collect a pension in about 20 years. He has no plans to seek further paid employment, so they'll all have a lot of quality family time.

However another shipmate not only does not see the light, I'm not even sure that he has ER optic nerves. They're a retired O-5 (24 years of active duty, pension of $55K/year with a CPI COLA) and a retired Reservist (who will receive the ECI-adjusted equivalent of at least $25K/year in today's dollars starting in 2025, also with a CPI COLA). We don't know their exact savings but after a number of chats I'd call it a combined $1M of home equity & cash. They're both eligible for lifetime TRICARE ($230/year each plus a $12 copay). No kids. Their most expensive habit is the recreational fishing boat.

She "gets" ER and has effectively been so for a couple years. She could work if she wants to, and she has in the past, but she chooses not to.

OTOH the idea of military ER has never even occurred to him. He's probably retiring before he's really ready but the assignment officer is not willing to negotiate about the Pentagon or Iraq next tour. He's fantasized about spreading out on his 1-acre homestead and working on the boat without the neighbors complaining, but he's already towing it cross-country (further away from their avowed ER homestead) to start the new job before his terminal leave ends. (Since his background is similar to mine, I suspect that he's driving 12-14 hour days.) He might even overlap his last military paycheck and his first civilian one, but he'll spend all of that on tow fuel.

He worked with a headhunter who specializes in translating military subspecialty codes to civilian résumés. I'm not sure how much he learned about the transition or the job search because he took the first offer and didn't even negotiate the salary, let alone the benefits or the moving expenses. It was almost as if he was afraid they'd realize who they hired and might change their minds.

He and his spouse are not spendthrift by any stretch of the imagination. They could probably live off the first pension, let alone their savings, until the second pension kicks in. To do so, however, he would probably have to figure out their expenses and their desired asset allocation. (Due to the "volatile market conditions" they've been 100% cash for over two years.) To date he's been on nearly five years of continuous sea duty too busy working to show much interest in either topic, and she's asking the right questions but unwilling to act unilaterally.

Despite his blissful ignorance of all things financial, he says that he plans to "work for a few years" before retiring, and this time he really means it.

This isn't "just one more year" syndrome. This is a "why would I stop?" obsession.

Filling the BS bucket ER education would seem to be the key, and I know how to do that with someone who's showing interest. But how do you get the attention of someone who never even realizes that they need to see?
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Old 06-05-2008, 08:34 AM   #80
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When you are rich and can lead a stress-free life with almost anything you want, why would you risk it all for more?

"Rezko's fall came as dramatically as his rise. The Syrian immigrant came to Chicago in the 1970s and amassed a fortune from real estate dealings and Papa John's and Panda Express fast-food franchises. That world came crashing down as Rezko found himself deep in debt, facing lawsuits, foreclosure and three criminal cases."

The Rezko verdict: Guilty :: CHICAGO SUN-TIMES :: Tony Rezko
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