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Old 02-08-2015, 10:04 AM   #441
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I'm looking at this pretty closely (still haven't chosen a replacement for my 5dii). But it's not clear to me if it improved on dynamic range.
Canon EOS 5DS / 5DS R First Impressions Review: Digital Photography Review

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As far as dynamic range is concerned, we're told that the new 5DS and 5DS R should give the same performance as the current EOS 5D Mark III. If true, this means that the new cameras won't be able to offer the same industry-leading dynamic range of Sony's current APS-C and full-frame sensors, but at least it isn't a step backwards. And hey - 50MP!
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Old 02-08-2015, 12:43 PM   #442
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Has anyone ever tried Capture One?

DSLR sales are shrinking, mainly because of the expense and people using smart phones more for snapshots. Most DSLR sales are probably replacement sales.

One thing which might broaden the appeal of DSLRs would be software that automates and streamlines the processing.

On smart phones apps. can enhance or apply effects instantly, with a few taps, and them share them. You can't make large prints of smart phone photos but people don't care, they like the immediacy, including many Former and current DSLR shooters.

They need like a one touch processing software which will recognize scene types and get at least 90% of the processing which an experienced user might do. Some specialized programs like Perfectly Clear, claim to do so but they're over $200 and you still need Lightroom.

And probably better integration with mobile devices. There re apps by Nikon and others but they're barebones. They should have APIs to allow third parties to make better apps.

I'm sure they'll sell millions of new DSLRs but every year, the market is shrinking.
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Old 02-08-2015, 12:53 PM   #443
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Has anyone ever tried Capture One?

DSLR sales are shrinking, mainly because of the expense and people using smart phones more for snapshots. Most DSLR sales are probably replacement sales.
Oh, how this sounds like 1949... Polaroid was going to put Kodak out of business.

Anyway: Lightroom or Capture One Pro, Which Raw Processor is Best?

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Both are similar in many ways yet fundamentally different. Neither product is right for everyone and neither one is a clear winner overall. My impression is that Capture One is a better professional or prosumer product while Lightroomís ease of use make it more suitable for the consumer market. Capture One is designed to work the way most professionals do and its rich set of customizations reflect that.
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Everyone's situation is a bit different so itís up to you to weigh the pros and cons Iíve described above and decide if the product offers enough benefit for you to make up for the steeper learning curve and inability to work with Smart Objects. For me, the more I work with it the more Iíve grown to appreciate the areas where it excels and the customizability it offers. These benefits were enough to make me switch to Capture One Pro as my primary raw processing tool with Lightroom playing only a secondary role in certain select situations. Despite my initial reservations and objections, itís superior image quality and other benefits ultimately won me over.
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Old 02-08-2015, 01:17 PM   #444
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Thom hogan has written several pieces on the grim outlook, based on recent sales and financial data, including this one:

Nikon Third Quarter Financials | byThom | Thom Hogan

DSLRs aren't going away soon but the companies are seeing the business declining, with nothing to indicate that the trend could reverse.

They seem to be doubling down though. Besides the 50 megapixel Canons, Pentax has said they're coming with a new full frame. The high end may insulate them a bit from smart phones but for how long?
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Old 02-08-2015, 03:38 PM   #445
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"SLR" was a mechanism designed to put a WYSIWYG viewfinder in front of a film shutter. A digital focal plane provides the opportunity to design out the flappy mirror, hence "mirrorless". When the mirrorless lens selections and auto-focus catch up with the SLR equivalents, I think DSLR sales will tank for good.


That said, nothing 'I think' ever pans out. S'why I don't trade stocks...
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Old 02-08-2015, 04:22 PM   #446
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"SLR" was a mechanism designed to put a WYSIWYG viewfinder in front of a film shutter. A digital focal plane provides the opportunity to design out the flappy mirror, hence "mirrorless". When the mirrorless lens selections and auto-focus catch up with the SLR equivalents, I think DSLR sales will tank for good.
The main reason I bought a DSLR was shutter lag on our first digital camera. It wasn't until I started shooting RAW and processing in Lightroom that I stumbled across figured out what else I was missing.

Since no one has mentioned it, is it correct to assume that the mirrorless cameras do not suffer from shutter lag?
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Old 02-08-2015, 04:39 PM   #447
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Sales of mirrorless are declining as well.

Again, the idea was that higher end cameras were insulated from smart phone cameras, at least as of a couple of years ago.

Canon and Nikon going to mirrorless would not necessarily cure their problems. Some are arguing that it's not just the bulk and weight but the user experience of smart phones, with apps. making things easier.

For instance, I played around with the time lapse feature on my iPhone 6 Plus for the first time and was surprised, seemed more interesting that just shooting a few seconds of video.

Now you can obviously make time lapses with cameras but it's a more manual intensive process. So just as they simplified things like panos and HDRs, they're making formats which are not easy to put together accessible to just about everyone.

What hurt a lot of consumer electronics giants like Sony was their ineffectiveness with software, with making better UI and so forth. American tech companies exploited this disadvantage in many ways.

The Japanese camera companies may be succumbing to a similar phenomenon.
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Old 02-08-2015, 04:50 PM   #448
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Canon and Nikon going to mirrorless would not necessarily cure their problems. Some are arguing that it's not just the bulk and weight but the user experience of smart phones, with apps. making things easier.
That is probably it for the mainstream user. I think of people like my other relatives, say ~25 on both sides. Three of them own DSLRs, including myself. Few have even heard of Lightroom and only one (me) uses it or anything even remotely like it.

I'm surprised that so many are satisfied with phone camera output even for family events that everyone used to make the effort to bring a camera to. As long as it is good enough to post on Facebook it is good enough.

And the long slow decline of civilization continues....

Maybe I'm just too picky.
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Old 02-08-2015, 05:22 PM   #449
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Yeah but remember, a lot of people grew up on Kodak Instamatics.

They bought those film cartridges and those flash cubes, dropped off their film at the drug store and got a bunch of 3 x 5 prints and people were happy with that.

I'm not sure smart phone photos, uploaded in web-friendly resolutions, are any worse.

For many people, the priority isn't image quality but just capturing the moments they want.
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Old 02-08-2015, 06:17 PM   #450
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I honestly cannot take a decent photo looking at an LCD on the back of something, or at the screen of an iPad or iPhone. We gave up on the smaller digital cameras long ago as their viewfinders were hopeless. I need to look through the lens and clearly see the focus, framing, etc. I'm sure there are tons of folks who don't need DSLRs, although I don't understand why they would have them anymore or would be buying them now.
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Old 02-08-2015, 08:20 PM   #451
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Lenses will be the cellphone deficiency for a while. Wide angle and telephoto lenses are about more than just coverage and reach, they bring a perspective to the shot that cannot be duplicated digitally. There are add on lenses for cellphones, but they don't cover the range of the DSLR offerings.

Sensors will also differentiate cellphones and serious cameras. FF sensors are just too big for cellphone form factors.
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Old 02-08-2015, 08:56 PM   #452
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Oh you'll never have image quality comparable to DSLRs on phones, unless the phones can be 3 inches thick or there's some fantastic morphing technology invented that causes a 3 inch lens to pop out of a 1/3 inch phone.

But there may be some in-between solutions like this that Olympus just announced:

http://www.theverge.com/2015/2/5/798...our-smartphone


Basically a self-contained camera with a cradle for a phone so that you can control the camera, via a Wifi link, with apps.

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if there are little cradles produced for other cameras including DSLRs if there are compelling mobile apps. made for controlling cameras.
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Old 02-09-2015, 08:19 AM   #453
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The main reason I bought a DSLR was shutter lag on our first digital camera. It wasn't until I started shooting RAW and processing in Lightroom that I stumbled across figured out what else I was missing.

Since no one has mentioned it, is it correct to assume that the mirrorless cameras do not suffer from shutter lag?
Walt, that's the same reason we bought a DSLR: my wife got tired of assembling the kids/grandkids for a photo, and by the time the camera got around to firing, they'd all dispersed. We have quite a few really nice carpet and wall pictures as a result...

Which is kinda funny, as the early digital point-and-shoots are the cameras that introduced "shutter lag", which (and someone correct me if I'm wrong) was really about the slow auto-focus mechanisms. A digital camera really doesn't need a shutter except maybe to protect the sensor, but it needs rather powerful computing to figure out the focus and then capture the light measurements across the sensor face. I've used more recent point-and-shoots that are very responsive when you press the button; one seemed to be capturing a frame some milliseconds before I pressed, because I seemed to be getting the shot I wanted even if I thought I'd pressed the button too late...

Mirrorless cameras render obsolete the need for the SLR mechanism, and the mechanics of a shutter-based exposure. What I'm reading on the photo forums is that auto-focus needs to be addressed, because the SLRs over the past 40 years have incorporated special sensor and processing that make the job quite responsive and reliable, and the digital processing to replace it isn't there yet. I just bought a D7000, and comparing the AF response with the viewfinder vs the LiveLook on the LCD bears this out. But, it won't take long...
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Old 02-09-2015, 09:31 AM   #454
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Mirrorless cameras render obsolete the need for the SLR mechanism, and the mechanics of a shutter-based exposure. What I'm reading on the photo forums is that auto-focus needs to be addressed, because the SLRs over the past 40 years have incorporated special sensor and processing that make the job quite responsive and reliable, and the digital processing to replace it isn't there yet. I just bought a D7000, and comparing the AF response with the viewfinder vs the LiveLook on the LCD bears this out. But, it won't take long...
It has always been my understanding that the definition of SLR was the focus and exposure measurements were taken "through the lens." The mirror was only incorporated into the mix to allow one to "see" the results of those processes prior to pressing the shutter button. The removal of the mirror (or even renaming it DSLR) doesn't change that. You, the photographer, are still viewing the scene "through the lens" either optically (mirror) or digitally (monitor).

I am unsure what you mean exactly by "the digital processing to replace it isn't there yet" but I can find no difference between the two with my 7D II (or the 7d, for that matter). Perhaps it is because I don't know what I am looking for.

In answer to Walt34's question: My EOS M has no lack between the time the button is pushed and the image capture -- it seems to be instantaneous. This, of course, may easily fall in to the YMMV category.
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Old 02-09-2015, 09:37 AM   #455
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Mirrorless cameras render obsolete the need for the SLR mechanism, and the mechanics of a shutter-based exposure. What I'm reading on the photo forums is that auto-focus needs to be addressed, because the SLRs over the past 40 years have incorporated special sensor and processing that make the job quite responsive and reliable, and the digital processing to replace it isn't there yet. I just bought a D7000, and comparing the AF response with the viewfinder vs the LiveLook on the LCD bears this out. But, it won't take long...
IMHO, the reason to get a mirrorless DSLR is to take advantage of the fact that the camera bodies and lenses are smaler and lighter. I routinely carry around the FF equivalent of a 150mm f/1.7 lens, but it is probably 1/4 the size of the FF equivalent.

Autofocus speed is still better with the best mirrored SLR, but they are getting better. The OM1 is quite fast, for example.
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Old 02-09-2015, 10:02 AM   #456
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Oh you'll never have image quality comparable to DSLRs on phones, unless the phones can be 3 inches thick or there's some fantastic morphing technology invented that causes a 3 inch lens to pop out of a 1/3 inch phone.
The optics will always be worse on a phone camera than DSLR. But I think phone makers have been much quicker to put advanced image processing algorithms on the device itself.

For example, my phone will do panoramas and stitched images on the fly -- while a single picture may not exceed the quality of my DSLR, I can see how a dozen stitched phone images (done automatically as I wave the phone around) could be better than my DSLR picture.

In theory DSLR makers could put this stuff in camera but have been hesitant to do so.
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Old 02-09-2015, 10:20 AM   #457
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The optics will always be worse on a phone camera than DSLR. But I think phone makers have been much quicker to put advanced image processing algorithms on the device itself.

For example, my phone will do panoramas and stitched images on the fly -- while a single picture may not exceed the quality of my DSLR, I can see how a dozen stitched phone images (done automatically as I wave the phone around) could be better than my DSLR picture.

In theory DSLR makers could put this stuff in camera but have been hesitant to do so.
They may. But the biggest issue for me has been that with the more consumer oriented devices, I simply can't see well enough to take a decent picture.

Not to mention the horrible noise in the iPhone images!
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Old 02-09-2015, 10:34 AM   #458
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IMHO, the reason to get a mirrorless DSLR is to take advantage of the fact that the camera bodies and lenses are smaler and lighter. I routinely carry around the FF equivalent of a 150mm f/1.7 lens, but it is probably 1/4 the size of the FF equivalent.

Autofocus speed is still better with the best mirrored SLR, but they are getting better. The OM1 is quite fast, for example.
I've been looking at switching into the sony A7 series of mirrorless cameras and I think they are going to be the future of cameras. In addition to the lighter weight (which they still have despite being full-frame) I can think of a number of advantages:

- focus is done on the sensor plane so you don't have registration problems (important for pixel peepers/shallow DOF). Just look at how many posts on the internet are about DSLR lens microadjustments

- AF can use the whole sensor not just a limited section in the middle

- no crop in the viewfinder (most mid-tier and lower bodies only show like 9X% of the frame)

- no mirror to get out of the way = faster frame rates

- no mirror = less vibration

- no mirror box means that the flange distance is short and you can mount pretty much any DSLR lens from any maker on the camera

- focus peaking and other ways of showing what's in focus in realtime

- realtime histograms, blinkies, etc

- cheaper (but I'm not sure how much is inherently from simpler construction vs other considerations)
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Old 02-09-2015, 10:36 AM   #459
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They may. But the biggest issue for me has been that with the more consumer oriented devices, I simply can't see well enough to take a decent picture.
My eyesight is poor and along with glasses I've never been able to get a good view through a viewfinder. I envy people with good vision.
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Old 02-09-2015, 10:43 AM   #460
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Walt, that's the same reason we bought a DSLR: my wife got tired of assembling the kids/grandkids for a photo, and by the time the camera got around to firing, they'd all dispersed. We have quite a few really nice carpet and wall pictures as a result...
I had much the same experience with kids, hence the frustration with the point 'n shoot.

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In answer to Walt34's question: My EOS M has no lack between the time the button is pushed and the image capture -- it seems to be instantaneous. This, of course, may easily fall in to the YMMV category.
Thank you. I'm not ready to retire my D7000 and collection of lenses for it yet but I'll keep the alternatives in mind.
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