Photographer's Corner - equipment

I am constantly amazed at the quality of the m4/3 system, both the equipment and the quality of the images produced. If my 12-40mm F/2.8 (24-80mm equiv in FF) lens was Full Frame, it would weigh much more and be much, much bigger. The speed of the lens is very valuable for me as I like to shoot in lower light situations such as early morning and the evening. However, if I don't need the speed, I can replace it with the 12-42mm variable aperture lens which is much lighter.
 
FWIW, Thom Hogan, recommends waiting about a month before buying any new equipment. He suspects that the drop in value of the Yen will give Japanese camera makers more price flexibility for their holiday season sales.

I have a Canon 7D Mark II preordered with delivery expected end of November. So maybe this will be one of those rare occasions when luck is on my side.
 
I've been looking at the Nikon D750, which they initially listed at $3600 with the 24-120 lens.

Or no discount for the bundle at all, the same price as if purchased separately.

Well they dropped it to $3000 now, just a couple of weeks after intro.

I can't wait until BF and after because I have a trip coming up in November.

Oh well.
 
Well I've decided to look for a replacement for my canon 5d II. I looked at my old receipts and it turns out I bought in in june 2009 so it's over five years old. Noise when lifting shadows is starting to really annoy me and a resolution bump would be nice.

My choices so far:

(1) Nikon D810. Pros top IQ of any DSLR. Cons need to get a new set of lenses

(2) Sony A7r or A7ii. Pros lightest/smallest FF camera with very good IQ. Can mount any lens with an adapter (I could keep using my 24 t/s). Cons needs adapter or new lenses, loud shutter + vibration (no EFSC on A7r). Sucky battery life.

(3) Do nothing and wait. Perhaps canon will improve their sensors (not likely) or sony will improve some of their cons
 
Well I've decided to look for a replacement for my canon 5d II.

If you are happy with your lenses and Canon in general, I suggest staying with Canon as it will be a lot cheaper. Also, you know the Canon way of operating a camera.

I say this as a person who had a traditional DSLR and lenses for it. But, I changed to the Olympus system because of its lighter weight and smaller size. IOW, I was no longer happy with my big heavy lenses attached to a big heavy body. Having f/2.8 and f/1.7 lenses that fit in the palm of my hand is very nice. :)
 
D810 though isn't a high ISO camera.

As for the Sonys, they have the same sensor as the Nikons but they don't output in 14-bit? That was supposedly the case with the first generation of A7s.

Both companies are running sales on all their full frames, except for the newly released D750.
 
Well I've decided to look for a replacement for my canon 5d II.

(A very biased opinion): In forty years of (amateur) photography, I have never owned other than a Canon camera. My last Film camera was an A1 and I went digital with the D10.

A few weeks ago, I purchased a 7D Mark II to replace my 7D (well, making it the 2nd camera). Yeah, I know it's a APS-C camera but I have just not been that sold on the advantage of 35mm sized sensors.

Anyway, you should really look at this camera (the 7D Mk II) before making a final decision. At least, all of your current Lenses would be compatible. I have a friend with a 1DX that, after looking at mine, is considering switching back to APS-C.
 
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I've been really happy with the low noise performance of my Canon EOS6D full frame camera body. Shot quite a bit at ISO 4000 and even 8000 when in Europe (building interiors, flash not allowed) and was happy with the results. Not saying there is no noise in the shadows, but after processing it's not noticeable and the image looks great.

I'll never switch vendors either due to our lens investment.
 
Probably depends on the type of photography one does.

Landscapes, architecture and other static subjects, full frame for ultimate image quality. Also low-light performance.

Sports, birds, crop sensors for crop factor. Also lighter and smaller gear.

Maybe in 5-10 years or more, Nikon and Canon will be fully in the mirrorless game, including full frame.
 
...full frame for ultimate image quality.

This is a (very) lengthy treatise on sensor size (and I suggest you don't trudge through it all) but #4 will dispute your contention.

https://photographylife.com/sensor-crop-factors-and-equivalence

Maybe in 5-10 years or more, Nikon and Canon will be fully in the mirrorless game, including full frame.

Yeah, I have a EOS-M and play with it a little. The size and weight is definitely an issue but then so again is the lack of a viewfinder. ([the rumor is] Canon promises a new, improved version in the next month or so.)
 
If you are happy with your lenses and Canon in general, I suggest staying with Canon as it will be a lot cheaper. Also, you know the Canon way of operating a camera.

This is exactly the advice I give to others (to stick with your system) because I feel people too often focus on the camera and not their composition/lighting/creativity etc. I think one should be actively discouraged from switching because it's usually a distraction and the costs can be high. I have switched once before from Nikon D200 to Canon 5D to get the full frame when Nikon was lagging.

I say this as a person who had a traditional DSLR and lenses for it. But, I changed to the Olympus system because of its lighter weight and smaller size. IOW, I was no longer happy with my big heavy lenses attached to a big heavy body. Having f/2.8 and f/1.7 lenses that fit in the palm of my hand is very nice. :)

Sony A7 offers the possibility of a much lighter kit which would be welcome.



D810 though isn't a high ISO camera.

As for the Sonys, they have the same sensor as the Nikons but they don't output in 14-bit? That was supposedly the case with the first generation of A7s.

Yeah the sony uses some lossy 11 bit RAW files that can exhibit compression artifacts. I don't think it's much of a practical issue unless you do astrophotography/star trails (from the examples I've seen). But I do need to double check on this some more.


A few weeks ago, I purchased a 7D Mark II to replace my 7D (well, making it the 2nd camera). Yeah, I know it's a APS-C camera but I have just not been that sold on the advantage of 35mm sized sensors.

Anyway, you should really look at this camera (the 7D Mk II) before making a final decision. At least, all of your current Lenses would be compatible. I have a friend with a 1DX that, after looking at mine, is considering switching back to APS-C.

The 7D gets very good reviews but it doesn't really have what I'm looking for (better DR/lower shadow noise at low ISO). My understanding is that the new 7D is more sports/action oriented and I don't do much of that (my action is limited to street scenes or perhaps people dancing). The AF on the 5d ii is pretty crappy but I've managed to live with that. Plus I can't go back to crop after years of full frame.


I've been really happy with the low noise performance of my Canon EOS6D full frame camera body. Shot quite a bit at ISO 4000 and even 8000 when in Europe (building interiors, flash not allowed) and was happy with the results. Not saying there is no noise in the shadows, but after processing it's not noticeable and the image looks great.

I'll never switch vendors either due to our lens investment.

Canon 6D is a very good camera and if my 5d had broken a few months ago, I probably would have gotten it as a replacement (integrated GPS is also nice). I don't shoot much though at ISO's above 1600 and most of my pictures are at 200 or lower. Maybe about 1/2 of my shooting on a tripod.

Building interiors are definitely challenging and better performance at high ISO is helpful. Usually I some combinations of raising ISO, taking a series of shots with VR and selecting the best one, and/or using some kind of makeshift support (resting camera on a bag, gorilla pod, etc)

I really started thinking about a new camera after processing a bunch of images recently at low ISO but where the shadows needed to be lifted. Here the sony/nikon sensors really excel although I think canon may catch-up and surpass them at the higher ISOs.

I have about 5 lenses but my most used would be 24-105L, 24 TS, 70-300L. Of these I think the 24 TS doesn't have a really good equivalent in Nikon (or sony but at least I could use an adapter). Thank god for my wallet I never got into wildlife photography.

I've sold a lot of my old cameras/lenses on ebay. Usually I find the popular/pro lenses go for close to a new price at B&H (i've actually sold some for more than I paid) although other less in-demand lenses could go for as little as 50%.


Probably depends on the type of photography one does.

Landscapes, architecture and other static subjects, full frame for ultimate image quality. Also low-light performance.

Sports, birds, crop sensors for crop factor. Also lighter and smaller gear.

Maybe in 5-10 years or more, Nikon and Canon will be fully in the mirrorless game, including full frame.

I'd say about 1/2 of my photos fall into your first bucket (static), the other 1/2 are street scenes/people etc where AF is definitely helpful but the requirements are much lower than a sports DSLR.
 
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That's true, it's pretty easy to resell camera gear.

Oh, right, I was also in a "no tripods" situation - and nowhere to rest a camera when you pass through roped off rooms. So I needed really good handheld performance. My wide angle (17-40mm f/4) lens didn't have image stabilization either.
 
Just got my Yongnuo TN560III speed light. It took me a while, but I finally got it working. Had the wrong triggering setting. The flash is great so far, but the manual leaves a lot to be desired
 
Both companies are running sales on all their full frames, except for the newly released D750.

I was looking at prices and the sony is also running a trade-in program where they take 15% off ($345) in addition to whatever B&H will give you for the camera. I think the trade-in value is probably lowballed but I do have an old olympus that's worth pretty much nothing.
 
The 7D gets very good reviews but it doesn't really have what I'm looking for (better DR/lower shadow noise at low ISO). My understanding is that the new 7D is more sports/action oriented and I don't do much of that (my action is limited to street scenes or perhaps people dancing). The AF on the 5d ii is pretty crappy but I've managed to live with that. Plus I can't go back to crop after years of full frame.

You would think that with all the marketing that Canon is doing but... in actuality, they are only pointing out the new features that are unique to this camera. Remember the 7D was state-of-the-art to begin with. To match the "usual" performance of the 7D Mk II one would need to go to the 1DX for $3-4,000 more.

I respect the choice of demanding a "full" frame sensor camera but, as I pointed out in my earlier Link, the only difference is that you need to get closer with a Full frame or farther away with a APS-C sensor camera... and isn't that what Zoom lenses are for. Yes, there are situations when you cannot move -- small rooms or great distances (landscapes) -- but they are kinda rare for me personally. Besides Panoramas cover that issue quite handily.

As far as the ISO/Noise issue goes, I am not sure I have an answer. However, I did take this photo this morning with the 7D Mk II with a Tamron 16-300MM lens set to 16mm at 1/1000 sec at f/3.5. I had the ISO set to Automatic and the camera chose 16,000. The attached images are from the RAW file in Lightroom. The first without any adjustment except as the default LR export to JPEG. The second is after a brief adjustment (10 seconds?). I know it is a lousy image but not so much under the circumstances -- the focus and Exposure were set to the darkest part of the scene so the sky is out of focus and over-exposed... AND hand-held. I am unsure what circumstance you are referring to when you want "(better DR/lower shadow noise at low ISO)" but if you describe them I might be able to duplicate it.

Anyway, as I say, I respect your choice of the "full-size" sensor. So I must ask, why don't you just upgrade to the 5D Mark III? Or install Magic Lantern software on the Mk II? Unlock hidden features on your Canon dSLR - CNET
 

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I have the NIK plug-ins and I use them all the time, mostly Color Efex, but also Silver Efex and HDR Efex. I think that they are great but a light touch is better (it's easy to get carried away and overdo it).

i like experimenting with different looks . topaz adjust can be lots if fun in photoshop once you start blending the effects on a layer with the origonal.

you can just about get a lucis art effect for alot less money. using it in photoshop is way better than just applying the filters all or nothing as is in lightroom.
 
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I respect the choice of demanding a "full" frame sensor camera but, as I pointed out in my earlier Link, the only difference is that you need to get closer with a Full frame or farther away with a APS-C sensor camera... and isn't that what Zoom lenses are for. Yes, there are situations when you cannot move -- small rooms or great distances (landscapes) -- but they are kinda rare for me personally. Besides Panoramas cover that issue quite handily.

I do agree with this that there's nothing magical about FF sensor size and it's popular because of historical precedent. But in practice if you take lens designed for FF and use them on a crop body, the equivalent focal lengths don't make as much sense. E.g., my 24-105 zoom becomes an effective 36-153mm but I'd much rather have the extra range on the wide end than at the tele. Losing the bottom end would mean that I would have to change lenses more often when I wanted to go wide. Or I could get new crop lens (somewhere in the range of 16-70mm) but if I have to get new lenses that decreases the advantage over switching platforms

I also shoot primes such as the 24mm T/S lens which will now become 36mm. This is a much less useful effective focal length for many of my subjects.

Other drawbacks of APS-C vs FF directly related size include needing a faster lens to get the same DOF (with equivalent framing). Also APS-C is physically smaller than FF, so given equivalent sensor technology the SNR has to be worse than FF and this one of my primary concerns.


As far as the ISO/Noise issue goes, I am not sure I have an answer. However, I did take this photo this morning with the 7D Mk II with a Tamron 16-300MM lens set to 16mm at 1/1000 sec at f/3.5. I had the ISO set to Automatic and the camera chose 16,000. The attached images are from the RAW file in Lightroom. The first without any adjustment except as the default LR export to JPEG. The second is after a brief adjustment (10 seconds?). I know it is a lousy image but not so much under the circumstances -- the focus and Exposure were set to the darkest part of the scene so the sky is out of focus and over-exposed... AND hand-held. I am unsure what circumstance you are referring to when you want "(better DR/lower shadow noise at low ISO)" but if you describe them I might be able to duplicate it.

Basically I mean landscape style shots where you brighten the shadows in post processing. This link (Part II - Controlled tests) has a few examples at iso 100 (look halfway down the page) where you can see the sony sensor in the Nikon is much cleaner than the canon.


DxO actually quantifies this ability with it's dynamic range measurements. See the attached graph -- at low iso nikon has a 2stop advantage over canon. However at higher ISO the canon is better, but I'm usually in the low iso range.


Anyway, as I say, I respect your choice of the "full-size" sensor. So I must ask, why don't you just upgrade to the 5D Mark III? Or install Magic Lantern software on the Mk II? Unlock hidden features on your Canon dSLR - CNET

Surprisingly the newer canon cameras haven't improved much on my 5year old 5d ii at low iso (see second attachment). And they are way behind the competition here (2+ stops).


I considered magic lantern due to it's Dual ISO capability but decided against it for a variety of reasons which include: required changes in workflow, it's unsupported nature, time required to understand and test it, and other drawbacks (e.g. reduced resolution). Other techniques like ETTR and exposure blending/hdr can help and I do use these sometimes (but these also have drawbacks).

Anyway I haven't made any irrevocable moves yet (although the sony mirrorless system is looking tempting). So inertia will keep me with canon at least for a little bit.
 

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And here is the same scene a month earlier with roughly the same lighting conditions. The only differences were it was shot at 1/30 sec and ISO 1600. (It was still handheld.)


Even at ISO 1600 and relatively slow shutter speed, the noise is not much of a distraction. However, the next similar sunrise occurs, I will try it at ISO 100 (may not be possible hand-held so If I have time I will drag out a tripod.)

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Basically I mean landscape style shots where you brighten the shadows in post processing. This link (Part II - Controlled tests) has a few examples at iso 100 (look halfway down the page) where you can see the sony sensor in the Nikon is much cleaner than the canon.

Yeah, That is pretty impressive.

You do make good arguments for change. You have done a very good job of researching this. I will be most interested in hearing how it progresses.
 
After a lot of internet research, I just ordered a Nikon D7000 from Amazon for $484. After picking through the things I wrestle with most in post-processing, it's dynamic range, and this camera has that, even if the resolution is not that of newer cameras. It's replacing a D50, so most anything will look better resolution-wise. I was going to wait until the D7200 is released and get a D7100, but I realized just yesterday that what I needed was in a far less expensive camera.

What really helped me figure out what I really needed was to 'squeeze blood from the turnip', shoot and process with the D50, see how far it would go and list the shortcomings.

I may yet decide to go full frame, but only after I see how far this camera will go, and how serious I really am about restarting the photo hobby...
 
After a lot of internet research, I just ordered a Nikon D7000 from Amazon for $484.

Great choice. I upgraded from D3100 --> D3200 --> D7000 this year. Wrestled with the idea of getting the D7100, but didn't really see the value for my case.

I am a member of a very active photography club with several pro level 'retired' members. ie. They now shot what they want to shoot and don't miss shooting weddings, etc. D7000s are very common among our members. The true value is in glass.
 
After a lot of internet research, I just ordered a Nikon D7000 from Amazon for $484.

I have one of those and I think you'll be very happy with it. While I've thought about moving to a full frame camera I have to wonder if the images would really be that much better to be worth the cost. So far I have not made the move and depending on the specs for the successor to the D7100 I might go for that.
 
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