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Re: Politically Correct Retirement
Old 04-21-2005, 10:01 AM   #61
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Re: Politically Correct Retirement

JG

Because of the fluckyness of life's events - we're spending 40% of taxable household income.

Any budget drawn up me - gets out voted 3 to 1 - "you can't take it with you." *And the new one - so what if you hit a big one in the stock market - who's keeping score?

It will be interesting to see where expenses stabilize by the end of the year.
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Re: Politically Correct Retirement
Old 04-21-2005, 12:26 PM   #62
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Re: Politically Correct Retirement

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So... *I have a plan, but I've also studied JG's numbers and appreciate knowing that if my plan doesn't pan out I won't necessarily be living under a bridge somewhere. *If the $2-million-plus folks were the only ones who posted here, I'd lose all hope and what little sanity I have left! * *
I agree completely.

I really respect the people that post here. Besides being "special" because they were able to retire early, many are "special" because they are high net worth people - even those that don't think they are.

I could work until I'm 70 and still not have the resources that some here have. Am I complaining no? Will I be able to sail around the Caribbean and taking multiple fishing trips a year? No. Do I enjoy hearing about everything that high net worth early retirees do? Absolutely! I love it! And even though I won't be able to do these things, the stories everyone shares is inspirational.

Some of us have a lower standard of living and are ok with that. Some of us will be perfectly happy having a "John Galt" retirement. Some people will be "over" cautious and work longer than they have to. I think there is value in hearing ALL early retirement stories. Only a moron would choose early retirement based solely on what they read on an internet chat board so I don't think we should worry about someone getting the "wrong idea" about early retirement if they read John's postings.
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Re: Politically Correct Retirement
Old 04-21-2005, 03:56 PM   #63
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Re: Politically Correct Retirement

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I have a strong suspicion (and yes SG and GD-ER, no actual facts) that in the small town I grew up in there are a number of people, mostly men, who left the workforce with little, long before social security kicks in. . .
Geez, Martha. Why pick on me on this thread? I haven't even been following it for the past several days and I haven't responded to anything GD-ER posted here.
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Re: Politically Correct Retirement
Old 04-24-2005, 06:08 AM   #64
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Re: Politically Correct Retirement

Sorry SG, I was just picking on you and GD-ER because of the other fact vs. opinion thread that I was staying far away from. This time.
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Re: Politically Correct Retirement
Old 04-28-2005, 07:37 PM   #65
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Re: Politically Correct Retirement

The concept I am thinking about is that the culture around us determines what is "normal". What is normal for a 6 year old--kindergarten; 12 year old--little league or some such; 18 year old -- boys drool/girls just like to have fun; 21 year old -get a job;
30 year old --get a promotion; 40 year old--pay those tuitions; 50 year old--grow that portfolio; 60 year old--spoil the grandkids; 65 year old -- the Golden Years -- er, strike that -- change of plan -- new rules -- BREAK'S OVER ! - BACK TO THE SALT MINE!

We all feel comfortable-- "normal"--fitting into the roles that society creates and expects of us. That need persists throughout life. At all those stages above and it will continue into retirement.

Fighting the need for conformity to norms/standards is a very difficult thing to do. If society creates a "norm" for retirement that entails working till we drop in some part time job to attain an acceptable standard of "keeping up with the retired Joneses" then I think most of us are going to comply. It goes beyond just consumerism and cash flow. It gets to a standard or "norm" of what constitutes a happy, sane existence. 'You don't work part time or volunteer? My, my how CAN you be happy, my dear?" If it is "normal" to work through retirement we will work. At least most of us will, and not just because we need the money. And it will be real tough not to. Hollywood and the TV will see to that.

What's the answer? Well , I think resources like this Board are important. I remember growing up in the 60s in a little town where there was not much to do for excitement. A few towns over there appeared a new phenomena in our little provincial part of the world -- a real live coffee house complete with that strangest of strange creatures --Beatniks! They were the avant garde back then--way out there for the "normal" types who went to work and paid the bills in our little community. They had long hair and beards. Wore berets and smoked something funny smelling. They had poetry readings on Friday and Saturday nights where they would play the bongo, snap their fingers, and talk that beat lingo -- Dig, daddio? Real Maynard G. Krebs stuff in the flesh. They were great curiosities and everyone was talking about the freaks over at the coffee house. Well, a funny thing happened. The coffee house started packing in the "normal" people on Friday and Saturday nights. Turn away crowds. Had to hire a doorman. Everybody had to go to just sit and stare and share the experience. Pretty funny sight --a couple of Beats on one side of the room snapping away and on the other side of the room table after table of middle aged couples in their suits and ties and go-to-dinner dresses sitting in dumbstruck, jaw dropped, awe at the sight of these strange beings . You'd have thought that the Martians had landed. Got pretty commercial in the end. The Beatniks moved on to historical lore and as it turned out they were only tame precursors of what was to come.

I think the folks on this Board are the Beatniks of Early Retirement. What is discussed here is pretty difficult to accomplish for most people, including me. But I think something funny is happening here, and hopefully other places as well. An alternate vision is being proposed. You guys are making the proposition that we don't have to live out the "norm" of retirement life that society -- Hollywood, TV, Government, Wall Street and Madison Avenue -- are in the process of concocting for us. You are causing a lot of us to re-examine that "norm". For us 9 to 5ers that is a dumbstruck, jaw dropped, awe inspiring kind of thing to contemplate. And that's a good thing, probably. How's it feel to be part of the avant garde?

So maybe, just maybe, a new, alternate "norm" is possible and is even now forming. Who knows? But, the Boomers, even those Beatniks, did change the norms of society once, for better or for worse. We will probably do it again as we begin to "do" retirement. Back to the salt mines as Hollywood, Wall Street, the Board of Directors of Wal Mart and the managers of Social Security would have us do? All these quizzes and assessments of the "magic number" for retirement and the consequent notion that we all have to work till we drop is built on the "norm" of retirement which "they" have in mind for us -- a consumption defined happy state of being, requiring unending labor to support, until the day we drop dead. Good to the last drop, so to speak. They are working hard through all the organs of mass communication, advertising and popular culture to push that vision of a proper retirement lifestyle on us. But, something tells me it ain't gonna happen. And that will have BIG, BIG consequences for American society.

P.S. I think if we got JG, Cut-Throat, Nords, Martha and a few of you other guys together wearing berets and snapping your fingers we could charge admission. Whadda ya think?

Donner


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Re: Politically Correct Retirement
Old 04-28-2005, 08:00 PM   #66
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Re: Politically Correct Retirement

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I think the folks on this Board are the Beatniks of Early Retirement.
We are all a "BOER"? I can dig it!

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Re: Politically Correct Retirement
Old 04-29-2005, 09:04 PM   #67
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Re: Politically Correct Retirement

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We are all a "BOER"? *I can dig it!

REW
Yeah . . . most people probably find us BOERing.

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Re: Politically Correct Retirement
Old 04-30-2005, 03:06 AM   #68
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Re: Politically Correct Retirement

Well, I do enjoy acronyms, even make them up.
Example "Arfie" (aging rural farm boy) as opposed to
"Yuppie".

Donner's soliloquy fits me pretty well. I recall an
argument with one of my in-laws. I was taking a lot
of heat and said, "Well, I kind of make up my own rules."
I thought later that might have been one of the truest
things I ever said. I like it...........gets me in a lot of
trouble though.

Re. budgets and briefly. I really think you need one
(esp. in ER) but my feeble attempts over the years
have been a failure, as far as producing any real
usable results. So now I just short cut it by watching my
net worth/income stream. Another aside. I have
become progressively more relaxed about our situation
as time passes by. Our "system" seems to be working
and the money doesn't need to last as long now.

JG
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Re: Politically Correct Retirement
Old 04-30-2005, 05:30 AM   #69
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Re: Politically Correct Retirement

You would have to cast a pretty wide net to cover the lifestyles of the ER's posting to this forum - politically correct doesn't cut it.

!!Blame it on the evil influance of independant, INTJ type thinking - even if you aren't INTJ, an engineer, or even left handed.

Yours truly

From da swamp.

heh, heh, heh
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