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09-08-2019, 04:52 PM
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#21
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Reno
Posts: 155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian S
There seems to be a bit of confusion here. The HOA will have a Board of Directors although in a new development, the HOA/board may be run by the builder. Associa is a management company that would have been hired by the HOA or perhaps builder in this case to take care of day to day operation and dealing with vendors who will do the actual work like maintaining the landscape. The management company e.g. Associa is not part of the HOA. It will be under contract and that contract will probably include conditions of performance so it might be possible to fire the management company for cause. The problem will be if the board is still controlled by the developer/builder. They may be trying to avoid paying for routine maintenance but I would think your CC&R's would dictate what the builder has to continue to do prior to the owners taking control. If the builder is not living up to the terms of the CC&R's, then there may be grounds for legal action. Is the builder in distress?
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Associa was hired by the builder to manage the operations as far as I know. An owner board has been elected but I don't know if they have been seated. I will find out at the next meeting. In an older notice that I got the listed board president was a sales person for the builder. In my past HOA I dealt with the management company and only communicated with the board members at the board meetings. That would be Associa in this case. I think that you are right that the builder is trying to save money and the new owner board is not in control of Associa. I am going to check the CC&R's to see what the builder is obligated to do. It seems to me that they are willfully neglecting the landscaping. I do not think that they are in distress but who knows. I will try to get to the bottom of it at the board meeting this Thursday. In the mean time that landscaping is going out of control fast.
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09-08-2019, 06:48 PM
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#22
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 9,953
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelL
The issues with weeds and dog mess and sprinklers are all over the common area so yes everyone as the same issues. I have talked with one neighbor, I'm trying to find more. Some are renters who don't care.
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I assume the renters don't like stepping in dog poop either. But if you have a lot renters this could be a problem for you, as renters opinions aren't going to matter to the HOA company.
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09-08-2019, 07:04 PM
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#23
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Huntsville, AL/Helen, GA
Posts: 6,002
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Any HOA needs to have an attorney available to go through the process of placing liens on properties for non-payers. And not all HOA management companies are created equal, as they're responsible for collections until they're deemed uncollectible.
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09-08-2019, 07:58 PM
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#24
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Laurel, MD
Posts: 8,309
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Hard to tell if your issues are with HOA or the management company hired by HOA. It seems you complained directly to the management company (Associa?) but I think they work for the HOA, not individual homeowners. I think the HOA is more of an issue
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...with no reasonable expectation for ER, I'm just here auditing the AP class.Retired 8/1/15.
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09-08-2019, 08:00 PM
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#25
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Conroe, Texas
Posts: 18,645
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bamaman
Any HOA needs to have an attorney available to go through the process of placing liens on properties for non-payers. And not all HOA management companies are created equal, as they're responsible for collections until they're deemed uncollectible.
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Agree, and now that the NEW HOA is in place as of this summer, since my friend bought the last builder's unit, I'm sure that the NEW HOA will be taking legal action against any current/past owners in arrears if they can through liens or other means.
According to my friend, it's not as cut and dry as you all seem to think these things should be. Apparently, the builder HOA (or management team) did not keep good records of maintenance assessment payments over the 3 year build out period.
Like I said in my other post, the situation appears to be a mess.
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*********Go Astros!*********
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I heard back from Associa
09-09-2019, 01:26 PM
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#26
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Reno
Posts: 155
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I heard back from Associa
The Associa rep says that the builder still owns this one section of the property and that they are trying to work out the transfer to the HOA. The entire development is 95 units and was built in phases. I walked around the entire property and the landscaping is in much worse condition near to me. Some parts look okay. The Associa rep says that they are trying get the builder to clean up the area before they take it over and that they don't have a contract with the landscaper for this part of the property. It looks like the builder is at fault here. We will see what happens at the HOA meeting.
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Problems with Associa HOA
09-09-2019, 01:49 PM
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#27
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Silverton
Posts: 176
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Problems with Associa HOA
There is often an upfront cost to collect past HOA dues. Laws differ around the country but in my state those costs can be recovered from the delinquent owners as part of the collection process. Added to the dues are late fees & fines which skyrocket the amount owed. Once owners realize the price of avoiding payment, they usually pay quickly. Liens on the property can prevent resale & lower the selling price. Our HOA lawyers do our collections. There are few late payers & even less that repeat that mistake.
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09-09-2019, 02:05 PM
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#28
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Colorado
Posts: 8,971
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelL
The Associa rep says that the builder still owns this one section of the property and that they are trying to work out the transfer to the HOA. The entire development is 95 units and was built in phases. I walked around the entire property and the landscaping is in much worse condition near to me. Some parts look okay. The Associa rep says that they are trying get the builder to clean up the area before they take it over and that they don't have a contract with the landscaper for this part of the property. It looks like the builder is at fault here. We will see what happens at the HOA meeting.
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There is a whole other set of rules, at least in the state I live in, for builder owner property. They have a longer leash. Until the common areas are turned over to the HOA, you may have a struggle.
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09-09-2019, 02:52 PM
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#29
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Full time employment: Posting here.
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Pinetops
Posts: 521
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Our HOA is managed by Associa, as well. They are more about event planning and vendor contacting, as opposed to actual management. Associa has been on site for almost 6 years and they send out letters based on the builders (and shadow board comments.). To date, not one cent has been collected in fines for not abiding by the covenants. We will be transitioning from the builder to a REAL board next month as 1265 units have been sold and the builder is scheduled to depart. By the way, Associa only pays our landscaping vendor. Residents are instructed to contact the landscaping company if an issue arises. By the way, our covenants are extremely restrictive.
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Now: Side Hustle(r) Extraordinaire
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09-09-2019, 03:06 PM
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#30
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gone traveling
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: DFW
Posts: 7,586
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If the HOA is relatively new and board is controlled by a developer/builder. It is best to form a group of like minded proactive residents that can lobby the board. I would also request copies of all of the HOA's governing documents including Bylaws, Charter, and CCRs and that will give you more insight as to when a true homeowner controlled board can be installed. The docs should also contain information on how a board member can be removed. The tough part is the developer/builder usually possesses the majority share of voting power until a certain number of units are sold. Good luck, it can be quite frustrating, but doing nothing and staying quiet is not the answer. I was a major PITA in our neighborhood until I saw results and eventually became the HOA president. It is a thankless job and almost like working, but someone has to do it.
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09-09-2019, 03:14 PM
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#31
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Northern Illinois
Posts: 16,543
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I had numerous problems with our condo HOA management company. Too many to list without bringing down the internet.
Like others have said, the best thing to do is to go the HOA meeting and voice your concerns. And keep going to every meeting that you can. And get the names/ phone numbers/ email addresses of your board members. And contact them when the management company is not performing.
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09-09-2019, 06:23 PM
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#32
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 141
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We moved to Florida from NY. HOA's are not common in upstate NY so we had no idea of how HOA's worked. We bought a townhouse. The builder controlled HOA was totally worthless. Actually worse, they violated the law, misled residents and were incompetent. When the developer turned over the property to the residents, we had a big mess. I joined the board, which had to deal with the current, incompetent, property manager (he lied continuously). It took us a year to figure out his lies and we had a bigger mess. All the other board members resigned and I ended up being
the President. We hired a competent property manager and now things are on the mend. All the residents hate me because we raised the dues to cover the needed reserves. Most of the time, I am fighting with people who disregard rules or people who don't pay assessments so I don't have time to make real improvements. I don't get paid and it is a thankless, time consuming job. If I didn't do it, I am not sure what would happen. I developed an understanding that the HOA board actually has a lot of "power". They can change rules and decide how enforcement is conducted. If you are not on the board, you have to accept the situation or figure out a way to influence the current board members. Complaining, especially on social media, will not help you. The board members, who are volunteers, will just resent you. Not because they are evil, it is just human nature.
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09-09-2019, 07:17 PM
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#33
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 12,598
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All true. The HOA board makes decrees, and the management company carries out...mostly by sending a constant barrage of threatening letters from the management company's retained lawyer.
However, the HOA boards we've dealt with only really came into their "power" when people wanted to sell their units. Up to that point, they can only nag owners about compliance and place liens, which have to be paid off before the sale can go through.
I have heard, though, of boards successfully suing property owners for unpaid HOA dues, even when the owners aren't trying to sell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by INTJ10
I developed an understanding that the HOA board actually has a lot of "power". They can change rules and decide how enforcement is conducted. If you are not on the board, you have to accept the situation or figure out a way to influence the current board members. Complaining, especially on social media, will not help you. The board members, who are volunteers, will just resent you. Not because they are evil, it is just human nature.
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__________________
If you understood everything I say, you'd be me ~ Miles Davis
'There is only one success – to be able to spend your life in your own way.’ Christopher Morley.
Even a blind clock finds an acorn twice a day.
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09-09-2019, 07:41 PM
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#34
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amethyst
All true. The HOA board makes decrees, and the management company carries out...mostly by sending a constant barrage of threatening letters from the management company's retained lawyer.
However, the HOA boards we've dealt with only really came into their "power" when people wanted to sell their units. Up to that point, they can only nag owners about compliance and place liens, which have to be paid off before the sale can go through.
I have heard, though, of boards successfully suing property owners for unpaid HOA dues, even when the owners aren't trying to sell.
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FYI, in Florida (I don't know about other states), HOA's can foreclose properties to reclaim past unpaid assessments. We are implementing two foreclosure procedures. It is the last thing we want to do, but we don't have much choice. The lawyers are the winners in these situations.
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09-09-2019, 07:45 PM
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#35
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 12,598
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Our experiences were in MD. We always complied with HOA demands, but when I asked the management rep what happened to people who didn't, she sighed and said, "Nothing. Until they try to sell their house. Then all the liens come due."
Foreclosure is a harsh penalty - I assume it is a last resort, after other legal remedies have failed?
Quote:
Originally Posted by INTJ10
FYI, in Florida (I don't know about other states), HOA's can foreclose properties to reclaim past unpaid assessments. We are implementing two foreclosure procedures. It is the last thing we want to do, but we don't have much choice. The lawyers are the winners in these situations.
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__________________
If you understood everything I say, you'd be me ~ Miles Davis
'There is only one success – to be able to spend your life in your own way.’ Christopher Morley.
Even a blind clock finds an acorn twice a day.
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09-09-2019, 08:05 PM
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#36
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amethyst
Our experiences were in MD. We always complied with HOA demands, but when I asked the management rep what happened to people who didn't, she sighed and said, "Nothing. Until they try to sell their house. Then all the liens come due."
Foreclosure is a harsh penalty - I assume it is a last resort, after other legal remedies have failed?
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Our lawyer hasn't offered any other legal remedies. We lien first and then we move on to foreclosure. We have been receptive to payment plans but if homeowners just ignore us we go from lien to foreclosure. The homeowners can always just pay the past debt or negotiate a payment plan. The unfortunate side affect is that the process just digs a bigger debt hole for them because of the legal fees that are added to the debt.
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09-10-2019, 03:05 PM
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#37
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern WV Panhandle
Posts: 25,302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amethyst
Our experiences were in MD. We always complied with HOA demands, but when I asked the management rep what happened to people who didn't, she sighed and said, "Nothing. Until they try to sell their house. Then all the liens come due."
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That's pretty much what happens here in WV. I'm not aware of any instances where the HOA foreclosed on anyone for nonpayment of dues/penalties but I suppose it could happen. Some of these houses might still be underwater from the 2008 crash so since (I think) the HOA would be second in line after the bank there wouldn't be any point in foreclosing.
There are at least several of them with outstanding liens according to the newsletter the property manager sends out but of course they don't name any names.
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When I was a kid I wanted to be older. This is not what I expected.
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09-10-2019, 04:14 PM
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#38
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 40,586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt34
That's pretty much what happens here in WV. I'm not aware of any instances where the HOA foreclosed on anyone for nonpayment of dues/penalties but I suppose it could happen. Some of these houses might still be underwater from the 2008 crash so since (I think) the HOA would be second in line after the bank there wouldn't be any point in foreclosing.
There are at least several of them with outstanding liens according to the newsletter the property manager sends out but of course they don't name any names.
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In our association that’s happened twice. It’s very sad, because the total amount charged includes penalties, fees, attorney, etc, is ‘000s higher than the back dues owed, and the net amount left for the homeowner after foreclosure proceeding is less. There’s probably some depression or other issue at play.
The last time we rented we were served a notice intended for the owner. It was a final notice of collection , next step was foreclosure. Previous notices were given to the prior tenant, who threw them away. Turns out when the association was built it was required to sign an agreement with the municipality for obligatory cable TV with a provider owned by the municipality. The rental contract required the tenant to pay, they didn’t, and the municipality went to court uncontested, won, and was preparing to foreclose. After this arrangement made the news and was (rightfully) chastised, they agreed to turn cable service over to another local provider.
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09-11-2019, 08:45 AM
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#39
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Western NC
Posts: 4,610
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Here because of bad behavior by HOAs in other states the amount any HOA can charge for legal fees (liens, foreclosures, etc.) is strictly limited.
E.g. if a monthly HOA dues payment is late only a $20 late fee (maximum) is allowed...no interest allowed to be charged on either the overdue HOA fee or late fee. Legal fees the HOA can recover for placing a lien or filing for foreclosure are similarly capped.
So while we place liens there's little incentive to filing foreclosure.
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09-11-2019, 09:06 AM
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#40
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Champaign
Posts: 4,689
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Thank you for this thread. Just scared me out of ever purchasing a property with an HOA It's hard enough getting a neighbor to mow her prairie/weed yard let alone dealing with an entire complex. I'll pay a lawn service to mow and weed my yard before I'll pay HOA fees. The education on this forum is priceless.
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"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail."
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