Proposition: Early Retirement is Selfish

[REWahoo]

Obscurity has its own rewards. Not everyone has to get it.

If I understand you correctly, you're suggesting I need to work harder at getting obscurity?

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Dont think of it as work. The whole point is just to enjoy yourself.

 

[Gumby]

If I understand you correctly, you're suggesting I need to work harder at getting obscurity?

Unless you become as obscure as possible, you are simply not doing your part and civilization as we know it will crumble.

 

[Meadbh]

• In this society you are expected to work more or less full time from, say, age 20-60. This is just a convention – so can we reject it if we don’t like it?

Yes, we can.

• Why is this convention needed? Because you need producers to have the things society needs.

Well, I don't agree. I work in a service industry, I am not producing anything. I am saving a life here and there and making other lives better. But I can be equally productive by mentoring other people in RE. I can also contribute to improved productivity by providing investment capital. I might also have more time to contribute to the arts, to paint or to write poetry. I fail to see how front line production would be more "worthy". Societal value is much broader than producing "stuff".

 

[scrinch]

Conventions change with time. Today's 40-hr work week might have seemed "selfish" 200 years ago when the norm was more like a 70-hr work week. The ER crowd is just on the leading edge of tomorrow's convention, when workers won't be expected to work full time from age 25 to age 65. Tomorrow's convention might be to work 30 hrs/week from age 25 to 50. Then the "shirkers" will be those who ER at age 35 instead of those who quit the race at 45 today.

The judgemmental will always find someone to judge. That is what I take away from the OP's proposition.

 

[Purron]

Some final thoughts. The OP was attracted to the idea of ER which is what drew him to this board in the first place. He can't ER due to family responsibilites and handling the expense of a newer, larger home to accomodate his children. Human nature is to put down that which you can't have. Therefore, he is labeling ER as a bad thing (shelfish). It makes it much easier to do without something you want when you have decided is bad and not worth having in the first place.

In his case, ER would be selfish as he would be denying his family, who depend on him, a decent life. I'm sure his friends and family would not want him to quit his job and go fishing. In my case, and many others here, ER is not a selfish act at all. My friends and family are very happy for me and support my decision. They are happy to know, through hard work and saving, I have gotten to this stage in my life.

In closing, I think Bongo should be happy for his blessings - a wife, three kids, and a nice home - and simply let go of this idea that ER is a bad, or shelfish thing.

Have a Merry Christmas Bongo and as you look into the faces of your children on Christmas Day, realize what you have is a good thing and many people on this earth would be happy to have the life you have. That doesn't make it bad, or shelfish, does it?

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Great. Now I want shellfish.

Good revenge for that whole bacon thing I started this morning, I guess...

 

[audreyh1]

This whole "convention" thing of there being a society expectation that people work from ages 20 to 60 is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

Some people may have that OPINION. However, if an overwhelming majority of a particular society truly believed that the majority of its members had such an obligation, it would become LAW and enforced.

I think that I can safely assume, that since early retirement is NOT illegal in the United States, not even a misdemeanor, that US society at least as a whole is JUST FINE WITH IT.

I notice that the US was founded with the concept of man's inalienable right to life, liberty, and the PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS!

There is nothing there about obligations to contribute to society through X years via work for hire or volunteering. Nil, zip, nada. In fact, the founding fathers clearly envisioned a society in which an individual could seek his own individualistic path with minimal interference from "society".

This is one of those things that makes me very glad for the civil liberties I am able to enjoy in the US.

Audrey

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

This whole "convention" thing of there being a society expectation that people work from ages 20 to 60 is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

Oh come on Audrey...I'm sure someone could come up with something more ridiculous. Dont underestimate the ingenuity of the average person.

 

[lem1955]

The very best thing we can do for the environment (the least selfish thing) is to stop working and consume as little as possible. I'm not that unselfish yet. I still want too much.

 

[audreyh1]

Oh come on Audrey...I'm sure someone could come up with something more ridiculous. Dont underestimate the ingenuity of the average person.

Oh you're right!

I suppose they could come up with - "it's immoral for a married woman to work outside the home". Or, "how can you not have children if you're married?". Or "How can you not buy a new car since you can obviously afford it?", Or "I can't retire, because I'd be bored out of my mind - whadya do all day?", Or "profit is immoral". Or, .....

Gosh, I can think of a bunch of ridiculous statements!

Audrey

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I guess I was already prepared for this by endless questions as to how I could be in my late 30's and still hadnt ever been married.

And do note that in the progress of this, it was said that a househusband violates all sorts of morals as well, so I'm thinking there is a groundswell of things we're probably all doing wrong that Bongo just hasnt had the time to broach yet.

Whenever I see something stupid, I always say "thats the second stupidest thing I've ever seen". That way, should something really and truly stupid become quickly evident, I dont have to change any priorities.

The idea certainly bears consideration in a "Gee, is there more to life?" sort of way. Academically interesting for debate as a function of our total potential contributions to society vs contributions to ourselves and our friends/families.

But to say "you're selfish and immoral if you get off the hamster wheel!"?

Thats the stupidest thing I've ever heard. I dont need to leave any room.

 

[audreyh1]

But to say "you're selfish and immoral if you get off the hamster wheel!"?

Thats the stupidest thing I've ever heard. I dont need to leave any room.

So you agree with me! LOL!

Audrey

 

[audreyh1]

I guess I was already prepared for this by endless questions as to how I could be in my late 30's and still hadnt ever been married.

But it goes against convention to be in your late 30's and not married at least once!!!! Society expects it of you. If you are not married by your late 30's, you have let society down. That's detrimental and harmful to society - people feel let down and will be disappointed in you!

Audrey

P.S. If you're divorced by your late 30's - that's OK and no longer against convention, thus understood by society. No one feels disappointed (except maybe you and the ex).

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Yeah, I got a lot of that in the vein of "So whats the weird little thing thats wrong with you that isnt evident".

Turned out I was single at the same time with a lot of my friends who were between #1 and #2...

So you agree with me! LOL!

Audrey

I've tried to stay as open minded as the circumstances allowed, but after further consideration...yes, you're right.

By the way, I think Bongo is just like Hitler. For a variety of reasons.

 

[audreyh1]

By the way, I think Bongo is just like Hitler. For a variety of reasons.

Well, at the very least it is completely clear to me that Bongo2 is a bona-fide socialist, as he believes that society's needs for workers/producers clearly trump that of an individual's need to follow his/her own self-determined path in life.

Audrey

 

[haha]

And do note that in the progress of this, it was said that a househusband violates all sorts of morals as well...

As just a small but possibly meanigful correction, I think that Bongo said that it violated "mores", not morals. I guess these two are often conflated, but they really are different.

Ha

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Ha -

I think you're being very generous in attributing your excellent command of the english language to other people.

 

[Lsbcal]

As just a small but possibly meanigful correction, I think that Bongo said that it violated "mores", not morals. I guess these two are often conflated, but they really are different.

I looked this up: mores - Wiktionary
and this: conflate - Wiktionary

Oh dear CFB, I think you are not cut out to be a househusband. Perhaps you should just go back to the hamster wheel?

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Shh...I'm eating bonbons on the couch. Bacon bonbons.

 

[donheff]

Didn't anyone notice that CFB called Bongo the name-we-shall-not-speak thus automatically closing the thread?

 

[haha]

I looked this up: mores - Wiktionary
and this: conflate - Wiktionary

I hope no one thinks I disagree with anyone's lifestyle. I am just interested in words. To me at least, morals are what an individual has. Mores are on a social level, and although they may vary widely among different subcultures they really can't exist without reference to some normative group.

OTOH, some people at least believe that morals can be innate.

It is also true that some groups feel that it is immoral to violate their mores, so it can get pretty confusing.

By the way Bunny, no one uses words better than you do.

Ha

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

I'm blushin Ha!

Didn't anyone notice that CFB called Bongo the name-we-shall-not-speak thus automatically closing the thread?

Yeah, but I violated the codicil that says that you cant intentionally invoke the name for the implicit purpose of causing the thread to end. So all y'all continue on as desired.

But the sentiment is pleasing.

 

[Lsbcal]

I hope no one thinks I disagree with anyone's lifestyle.

Well you might disagree with mine, blue bunny's are kind of kinky . I don't think anyone believes you had impure motives, Ha.
We're just a little loopy after this thread got past page 13. BTW, does anyone know what the record is on this sight?

 

[REWahoo]

We're just a little loopy after this thread got past page 13. BTW, does anyone know what the record is on this sight?

According to the forum stats the record is "Its funny joke Thursday!" at 51 pages.