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Old 12-20-2007, 05:59 PM   #221
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Thats okay, I think everyone is done feeding the troll.
I hope so.
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Old 12-20-2007, 06:28 PM   #222
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Good night, John Boy!
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Old 12-20-2007, 06:41 PM   #223
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Crap - my power is back on after five days and I just got back from a mini visit to New Orleans.

Yeah yeah yeah - I know - post on a different thread.

heh heh heh -
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Old 12-21-2007, 07:35 AM   #224
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Hey folks,

Just a heads-up; DW and I are going to visit family for Christmas, and I may or may not post for the next ten days or so. Just wanted to let you know so no one is waiting for a quick reply that won't be coming.

Merry Christmas everyone!
From our perspective, that is a pretty selfish thing to do.
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Old 12-21-2007, 11:41 AM   #225
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“it is clear now. Bongo is a neo-communist” Don’t forget a money-grubbing religious-nut faux-intellectual communist! I pick fights and then snivel about it; I claim to be morally superior while I destroy the earth with my overconsumption! It’s all part of the picture!

FinanceDude: “You never studied economics.....” “.....but I fail to see how the choices of OTHERS affects YOUR obvious choice”

I don’t know if you studied economics more than I, but I studied it enough to know that economics is pretty much about how the choices of people affect each other.

“I understand you believe ALL should work until they die” I understand you don’t read my posts, but, if you did, you’d see that’s not what I’m saying at all.

In the spinoff thread that Tick Tock started on “what if everyone ERd” Nords referenced a thread “Imagine: Can lots of people ERing make things better for everybody?” from a couple of years ago. It’s interesting that in that thread many people said that ER is detrimental to society, and that we do all have a duty to each other. I guess people just like to be contrary. Nords also frequently mentions Po Bronson, but Bronson strongly argues against the FIRE model. Here’s an excerpt, but his whole book argues against it:

“Shouldn't I make money first -- to fund my dream? The notion that there's an order to your working life is an almost classic assumption: Pay your dues, and then tend to your dream. I expected to find numerous examples of the truth of this path. But I didn't find any.”

http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/66/mylife.html

Tick Tock: “In this thread, I have not been and continue to be not interested in someone else’s perception of it. . .I think you’re not only mixing perception and reality, but also confusing economic and moral arguments.”

But it is the perception that helps create the reality, and the economics and morality are intertwined. Here’s another example. If I ignore my kids to post on this forum then I’m being selfish. If you ignore my kids to post on this forum, perhaps in some absolute sense there could be similar harm, but you’re not being selfish because no one expects you to look after my kids. Society could theoretically be structured so that grandparents have the duty to take care of kids, or designated government entities, or people named “Tick Tock”, but in our society parents have the greatest obligation, close relatives next, and society last. If I ignore my kids I’m being selfish – even if I personally reject the notion that parents should take care of children. Similarly, someone has to produce. In our society our duty to be productive starts in our 20’s, peaks around 45 or so, and then diminishes to 65. It’s all rough, of course, there are no absolutes. And please people let’s not say “bongo2 says ER is like abandoning your kids!” That’s not what I’m saying.

Kombat: Yes, let’s make this more concrete. Moe and Joe are programmers both making $100k. Joe is a frugal sort who saves 40% of his income and is able to retire at 45 on his savings. Moe spends all of his money, but still stops working at 45 because he is able to scam some sort of disability that he doesn’t have. So, is Moe selfish, but Joe not? I don’t think so. While Joe has earned the right to retire early, his early retirement is still selfish. Again, I think that earning something and it being selfish are two different things. If I eat a cookie and don’t share it with my kids, that’s selfish. It doesn’t matter if the cookie is bought or stolen.
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Old 12-21-2007, 12:28 PM   #226
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let’s make this more concrete. Moe and Joe are programmers both making $100k. Joe is a frugal sort who saves 40% of his income and is able to retire at 45 on his savings. Moe spends all of his money, but still stops working at 45 because he is able to scam some sort of disability that he doesn’t have. So, is Moe selfish, but Joe not? I don’t think so. While Joe has earned the right to retire early, his early retirement is still selfish. Again, I think that earning something and it being selfish are two different things. If I eat a cookie and don’t share it with my kids, that’s selfish. It doesn’t matter if the cookie is bought or stolen.
Bongo, what I think has irritated me about your posts on this thread is that you keep coming up with trivial sophistries that oscillate back and forth. Most of the time you seem to be concerned about the concept of "selfish" as in "bad." But when someone shows how earning a retirement, spending in ER, etc., can have positive impacts you come back with examples of the concept of "selfish" as in "concerned with the self" to keep your bias going. But then, having stepped back until you almost sound reasonable, you turn right around and drag the devil back into it. Like the above, where you equate earning an early retirement (concerned with self) with fraudulent disability (selfish as bad). I know, I know, you will claim that you are not holding the two as equivalent but in your comparisons you keep coming back to the theme that ER is evil. You have failed to show in any coherent way that ERs are truly having a negative impact on society yet you can't let go of the underlying concept that the leisure of ER is bad, bad, bad. Ugh, tiresome.
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Old 12-21-2007, 07:42 PM   #227
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Old 12-22-2007, 07:24 AM   #228
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And a cat with cookies on its toes...
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Old 12-22-2007, 07:59 AM   #229
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OK, one more...
Old 12-22-2007, 08:23 AM   #230
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OK, one more...

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Old 12-22-2007, 08:28 AM   #231
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Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
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Old 12-22-2007, 09:36 AM   #232
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OK, the last time I did this I got flack for unmoderator like behavior, but:


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Old 12-22-2007, 09:40 AM   #233
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Dang. I was holding that one in reserve.

But, have at you!

(I could do this all day. I've still got bill gates, warren buffet and martha stewart with suze orman on her head, all sitting in a kayak. Gates has just been hit in the face with a pie.)

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Old 12-22-2007, 09:47 AM   #234
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I have a whole series of baby judy with veggies on her head. Yes, I could go all day.

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Old 12-22-2007, 09:54 AM   #235
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What a coincidence! So do I!!

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Old 12-22-2007, 09:57 AM   #236
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A more recent photo. Last one, I promise!

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Old 12-22-2007, 10:02 AM   #237
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Old 12-22-2007, 11:29 AM   #238
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Great photos!!! My wife and I had quite a laugh this morning . Somehow our pets help us to get grounded don't they?
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Old 12-22-2007, 11:34 AM   #239
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Its a way we stay at home bimbo's can offer amusement to others, and therefore become less selfish!

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Old 12-22-2007, 11:37 AM   #240
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Its a way we stay at home bimbo's can offer amusement to others, and therefore become less selfish!

That's strangely erotic against convention...
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