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Old 12-30-2007, 03:10 PM   #321
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You could make an argument that #3 is selfish, too. If you don't need the money, you could well say it's selfish to keep the job instead of leaving it and making it available for someone who *does* need the job. Insisting on keeping something you don't need (or even really WANT) and not allowing it to go to someone who needs it? How is that NOT selfish?
Back in the bad old 80's I heard a lot of resentment about people who had reached the minimum retirement age and wouldn't go away and free up a job for a young person. In those days, many people were involuntarily ER'd. If you had a job, you didn't brag about it, because many deserving people didn't have one, and you might be thought "selfish".

Those days will come again.......someday. Then, no ER will be thought "selfish".
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Old 12-30-2007, 03:13 PM   #322
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Maybe we should apply our reasoning skills to a more down to earth topic, like "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin"?
Seven!
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Old 12-30-2007, 03:18 PM   #323
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42 - everybody knows that!

heh heh heh -
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Old 12-30-2007, 03:50 PM   #324
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Back in the bad old 80's I heard a lot of resentment about people who had reached the minimum retirement age and wouldn't go away and free up a job for a young person. In those days, many people were involuntarily ER'd. If you had a job, you didn't brag about it, because many deserving people didn't have one, and you might be thought "selfish".
Yep. I worked for Lockheed back in the "peace dividend" days of the early 1990s, and there were a LOT of layoffs. A fair number of older salaried (non-union) employees who were already eligible for retirement (age 55 or 85 "points") asked to be moved to the top of the layoff list, and at least one of the reasons they sometimes mentioned was that they didn't wan't someone who still *needed* the job to lose it. Plus, the company lost a higher salary and retained a lower salary.

Of course, many of them were ready anyway and just wanted the severance package, but...
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Old 12-30-2007, 03:56 PM   #325
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Heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh heh

Not everybody volunteered!

I did eventually learnt to spoke ER - with a sight accent.
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Old 12-30-2007, 04:52 PM   #326
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Why am I still reading this thread?:confused:
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Old 12-30-2007, 05:07 PM   #327
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Why am I still reading this thread?:confused:
I ask myself the same thing. It's getting to be a bad habit. CFB, I think we need more bunnies with flapjacks just about now...
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Old 12-30-2007, 06:43 PM   #328
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I ask myself the same thing. It's getting to be a bad habit. CFB, I think we need more bunnies with flapjacks just about now...
I think the universal way to end a thread (on most discussion boards) is to invoke the word, "Hitler".

So, maybe that will work.
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Old 12-30-2007, 06:53 PM   #329
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Except you cant do it on purpose, except to be slightly ironic.

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CFB, I think we need more bunnies with flapjacks just about now...
Your wish is my command...

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Old 12-30-2007, 07:22 PM   #330
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Maybe we should apply our reasoning skills to a more down to earth topic, like "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin"?
I don't think it's so much how many, but rather, what kind of music do they dance to? That's probably far more important that the actual number.

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42 - everybody knows that!

heh heh heh -

That has to be the correct number! 42 is "the Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything" according to Douglas Adams' series "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy".
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Old 12-30-2007, 08:37 PM   #331
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I think the universal way to end a thread (on most discussion boards) is to invoke the word, "Hitler".

So, maybe that will work.
Or 'Kayak'

heh heh heh - but I hate to admit it - I really like the Bunny! Wonderful work CFB.
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Old 12-30-2007, 08:47 PM   #332
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CFB rules and never lets us down!
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Old 12-30-2007, 10:05 PM   #333
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Yahbut, I'm selfish and some sort of immoral underachiever thats a disappointment to society and people named after dope smoking apparatus.
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Old 12-30-2007, 10:39 PM   #334
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While we’re on the CFB fan club:

CFB: “So then you believe that you're selfish (or planning to be) and you're okay with that.” If you’d read my posts you’d know that already. I understand that my decision to ER is a selfish one. Hopefully the balance of my life will not mean that I am a selfish person. “I saw your correction” This is brilliant on so many levels. On the first level, of course, you’re just saying you did read my posts. On the second level, you’re saying you didn’t read my posts (because I never made a correction – so you must be making it up). And then on the third level you’re saying that, of course you did read my post, but you just want to make another little jab by misrepresenting it. All that in just four words. I bow down to the master. "Yahbut. . ." Of course, but we’re debating if it was ER that made you so.

Zathras: thank you. Before when you said [paraphrasing] “my friends know . . . one of them is supportive” I inferred that the rest were not. Now I see what you were saying.

Dawg52: “Again, what is the purpose of this thread?” Again, the proximate cause is that CFB (among others) demanded it in another thread. I am clearly just one of his puppets. The more general cause is: 1) I’m interested in the rationale of people who think that ER is not selfish for arguments that I can use on myself and others when the time comes; 2) in the threads where people have reported negative reactions from friends and family the assumption here is 100% envy. I personally know people who believe in the work ethic where envy is not a factor, and I know there are other reasons; and 3) while I love so much about this forum, the “me me me” attitude gets to me sometimes. Now, the last point is merely my perception, and others have said that I’m wrong, so perhaps here we are just dealing with some sort of projection.

aenlighten: “There is no finite number of jobs, but there is a finite number of good jobs at any point in time. . .” When you think of all the new businesses and all the new jobs of every shape and description being created all the time it seems quite obvious to me that this is wrong. I guess we will have to just disagree on this one. Your last paragraph is quite good, but quite depressing. You seem to be saying that most people are so pathetic that they can’t contribute. Their lives are wasted either way, so they might as well just enjoy themselves. Many of the people on this forum are very successful and talented. If they think of the people that they admire I would guess it is because of their accomplishments, not their sloth. We can’t all be Ben Franklin, but we can all be inspired by people like him to make as positive an impact on the world as we can.

TickTock: “We seem to be down to fundamental disagreements.” Probably. However, stubborn as I am, I will respond. “You are using the word retirement in a very different manner than is common.” Not at all. If someone asks “what do you do” and you say “I’m retired” will they press on with, “so, you are raising children, volunteering at the shelter, and writing a novel?” No, they take that to mean that you are spending your time pursuing leisure activities that interest you. Technically you could be doing those other things, but then you wouldn’t commonly say “I’m retired.” Specifically around here that is the retirement that everyone is talking about. Even in this thread many people responded with a “my time is mine.” On the contribution of capital to society – I think you are overestimating it, but this is something debated by economists and we are certainly not going to resolve it here. Many on this thread have made the claim it is the consumption, not the savings, that contributes to society, and no less a mind than Bertrand Russell did so in the “praise” linked way back. But, accepting it for now, in the Moe and Joe example, while Joe has contributed more, through his savings, up to retirement, from that point on they contribute exactly the same. As you said before, my problem is completely with not contributing – not with the lack of a paycheck.
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Old 12-30-2007, 10:45 PM   #335
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Perhaps some pink bismuth would help with this problem.

Orr.....

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Old 12-31-2007, 01:28 PM   #336
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Interesting thought!!

Oh, you said "pin"...
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New businesses, yes,
Old 12-31-2007, 03:09 PM   #337
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New businesses, yes,

but that doesn't mean anyone can do any job in at all anywhere near as usefully given their ability, education, experience, and skills. The younger you are, the more likely such a transition is possible, but the larger the transition the less likely it is possible, or if possible, successful. Downwardly mobile transitions become most likely and they are the ones most likely not to amount to real contributions.

I think this is more realistic than pessimistic. Michael Jordan's career is gone. Basketball is over and baseball didn't really work out. He may find other means to contribute, and contribute in different ways, possibly in even greater measure than he already has, but one shouldn't expect this. The odds alone are against it. That doesn't mean he is pathetic, only that what he has done has been exceptional and unlikely to be topped. That doesn't mean he should give up, lie down, and die, but to work at any job just so he can 'contribute', isn't really any different than doing just that. If he can contribute significantly usefully, most likely he will for its own reward, while if he can't, he has already done so far more than most and earned his rest.
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Old 12-31-2007, 04:10 PM   #338
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M Jordon's colored underwear was/were a lifesaver during the 02/03 market downturn - you know when I wasn't supposed to be watching my balanced index rebalance.

The vanguard computers, colored underwear, and RTM all filled their dually appointed roles - while I stayed the course.

As for long term - I did wash the underwear.

Who says you can't have a second career.



heh heh heh - this be a tongue in cheek post - in contrast to a Curmudgeony one.
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Old 01-01-2008, 12:24 PM   #339
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Old 01-01-2008, 09:21 PM   #340
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Dear Bongo2,

Work sucks.

Love,

The ER community

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