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Old 12-17-2007, 06:13 PM   #141
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Old 12-17-2007, 06:13 PM   #142
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And not share with the rest of us?

Now THAT would be incredibly selfish.
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Old 12-17-2007, 06:17 PM   #143
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This thread has become like that last half swallow of Starbucks at the bottom of the cup. Cold, bitter, and not worth the effort.
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Old 12-17-2007, 06:18 PM   #144
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Sure, nice rich fellow like you thats selflessly working can afford all that starbucks.

We househusbands have to swill Dunkin Donuts crud.
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Old 12-17-2007, 06:24 PM   #145
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What an interesting thread. I'm sorry to be coming in so late. Most of the issues/philosophies have been touched on, but I'm left wondering "what is the value of work anyway?" A lot of the work I see people doing everyday seems worthless, to me, in the larger metaphysical sense. Barista, retail clerk, thinking up new software games, stock broker, etc. etc. They keep the economy going, pay taxes. Big deal.

I'd never set myself up as judge and jury on others' occupations. In a capitalist society a lot of what people end up doing is making up their own livelihood. Who is to judge whether what you do with your life is of value to others?

I spent twenty years as basically a full-time parent, although I did contribute some part-time work to society. Now I don't work full time because society chooses not to value my masters' degree or my work history. Age discrimination is rampant in our society. I could get a full time retail job, I suppose, but I don't need to work. So I don't.

Anyone who thinks I'm being selfish can stuff it.
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Old 12-17-2007, 06:24 PM   #146
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CFB, the bunny with the Santa hat was the best!
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Old 12-17-2007, 06:35 PM   #147
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I ignored this thread for a while just based on the title, but all the posts caught my interest. My only two cents: Shouldn't we be thankful for those folks in society that value work and question ER? I don't agree with that sentiment (I'm trying to ER before I turn 40, afterall), but isn't ER for some an opportunity created by the tax and consumption contributions of those that choose FTR (full-term retirement), LT (late retirement), or NR (never retirement)?
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Old 12-17-2007, 06:43 PM   #148
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I'd never set myself up as judge and jury on others' occupations. In a capitalist society a lot of what people end up doing is making up their own livelihood. Who is to judge whether what you do with your life is of value to others?
Agreed - and even if you try, it will just drive you crazy. There are better ways to spend (invest?, waste?) your time.

For example, I love music, don't give a wiff about sports. Sometimes it gets to me that some athlete is making millions, but then I realize - they are just 'performers'. Heck, let 'em make whatever people will pay 'em. It's not up to me to judge.


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Old 12-17-2007, 06:44 PM   #149
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CFB, the bunny with the Santa hat was the best!
Yeah, but it seemed to confuse some and made one guy want to have sex with me in prison. A change was prudent.
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Old 12-17-2007, 07:10 PM   #150
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CFB, please... this is a family site ... and their are some out there who are really hard working and have many obligations we can only dream of !!!!
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Old 12-17-2007, 07:11 PM   #151
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Sure, nice rich fellow like you thats selflessly working can afford all that starbucks.

We househusbands have to swill Dunkin Donuts crud.
Your stuff could end up beating out the chic competitor before you know it - the franchises are going nuts, even as Krispy Kream goes down the krapper. Look what's happening.

Tried some Dunkin coffee a few weeks ago and it was very good. I prefer it to Starbucks for being less bitter. Wish I could allow myself to eat the donuts more often but I have my limits.
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Old 12-17-2007, 07:11 PM   #152
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Especially we morally questionable househusbands that like gladiator movies...
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Old 12-17-2007, 07:17 PM   #153
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Tried some Dunkin coffee a few weeks ago and it was very good. I prefer it to Starbucks for being less bitter. Wish I could allow myself to eat the donuts more often but I have my limits.
Its actually pretty good coffee if you're not into the winey more bitter stuff like starbucks, although I do enjoy that once in a while. Our local Costco has a huge coffee roaster and you can get a bag thats still warm, roasted to a variety of levels...when I'm in the mood for a few dozen pots of the stronger stuff we get that for $10 for a couple of pounds.

The Dunkin Donuts coffee subscription is a pretty good deal. They give you a discount on the price per bag by having them ship it automatically, and the shipping isnt too horrible. I think I'm paying about $6.50 for a full 16 oz pound (not the faux "12 ounce pound" thats now the standard), and I'm getting 5lbs shipped for under $10 shipping fees.

If the donuts concern you, eat those nice french crullers. Lots of air in those helps counteract the fat. Maybe makes you lighter as a result and the puffiness may fight cholesterol. Or eat a beignet...your body wont know what that means and will pass it as inert fiber.
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Old 12-17-2007, 08:24 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by Oldbabe View Post
What an interesting thread. I'm sorry to be coming in so late. Most of the issues/philosophies have been touched on, but I'm left wondering "what is the value of work anyway?" A lot of the work I see people doing everyday seems worthless, to me, in the larger metaphysical sense. Barista, retail clerk, thinking up new software games, stock broker, etc. etc. They keep the economy going, pay taxes. Big deal.

I'd never set myself up as judge and jury on others' occupations. In a capitalist society a lot of what people end up doing is making up their own livelihood. Who is to judge whether what you do with your life is of value to others?

I spent twenty years as basically a full-time parent, although I did contribute some part-time work to society. Now I don't work full time because society chooses not to value my masters' degree or my work history. Age discrimination is rampant in our society. I could get a full time retail job, I suppose, but I don't need to work. So I don't.

Anyone who thinks I'm being selfish can stuff it.
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I'll be working here forever, at least until I die.
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Old 12-17-2007, 08:30 PM   #155
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Our local Costco has a huge coffee roaster and you can get a bag thats still warm, roasted to a variety of levels...when I'm in the mood for a few dozen pots of the stronger stuff we get that for $10 for a couple of pounds.
Man, I'm going to have to go looking for that at our Costco. Spouse practically had to drag me away from the customer roasting display at Kauai Coffee Co.

I know people have written off Krispy Kreme, but around here fundraisers will actually bring in a planeload from Kahului and sell boxes of them on street corners. Drivers will start to pass by and then screech to a halt on the curb when they realize what they're seeing...
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Old 12-17-2007, 08:48 PM   #156
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Or eat a beignet...your body wont know what that means and will pass it as inert fiber.
Now that is a great fantasy!
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Old 12-17-2007, 09:17 PM   #157
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Still open if there is anything new to add.
I hope something here qualifies as new. Thank you.


bongo2,

This is a consolidated reply to your posts of today without quoting.
  • Yes, this thread is my fault. You posted elsewhere that ER was selfish, and I challenged you to start a thread such as this one to debate it, and you did, knowing that you would take a lot of grief. Guilty as charged! And I still say you are courageous to start the thread, knowing that.
  • Yes, many folks say ER is selfish – BUT they also say that working is selfish. You make a case that certain types of ER are selfish, and in fact detrimental to society, in a way that working isn’t. There is a difference.
  • “Dropping out of society” vs. “Dropping out of productive society” – I still claim that having the capital that produces gains sufficient to provide for one’s consumption by definition establishes one as productive. This is, I think, one of our basic disagreements.
  • Your posts do indicate a value to “important” vs. “frivolous” activities. How these categories are determined is not defined.
  • You agree that savings are a factor and that ERs are different from those who are “free-loaders and never contributed”. Perhaps our main disagreement is how much wise stewardship of capital matters.
  • You state that Bill Watterson has contributed more to society than you, so he deserves to do whatever he likes with his time. Okay, so contributing ‘enough’ makes ER morally acceptable. Once again, I claim that saving enough to sustain one’s chosen lifestyle demonstrates contributing ‘enough’. What say you?
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Old 12-17-2007, 10:10 PM   #158
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What is FIRE, if not a change in the distribution curves of income and expenses over time? Those who continue to toil do so because they may, or because they must (which happens when expenses exceed earnings). This is not right, nor is it wrong. It is just a different way of organizing one's life.

FIN

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Old 12-17-2007, 10:21 PM   #159
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I spent twenty years as basically a full-time parent, although I did contribute some part-time work to society. . .

Oldbabe, if you spent twenty years as a full-time parent, you did indeed contribute full-time to society. America needs good children as they become responsible adults who later become contributors to society.
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Old 12-17-2007, 10:53 PM   #160
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Sure, nice rich fellow like you thats selflessly working can afford all that starbucks.

We househusbands have to swill Dunkin Donuts crud.
I was thinking this thread is more of a "Chase and Sanborn"

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