|
|
Re: Protein will kill you ...
04-13-2006, 06:24 PM
|
#81
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,983
|
Re: Protein will kill you ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by wab
Here's the thing that separates Campbell and the China Study from the *many* anecdotes in this thread.* *Campbell did the study.* *The most comprehensive study of the effects of diet on health ever done (so says the blurb, anyway).* * Read the book, then decide.
|
Wab, could you post a reference to the study that underlies this book- the China Study? If I can't find it online, I will read it in the medical library.
Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
|
|
|
|
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!
Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!
|
Re: Protein will kill you ...
04-13-2006, 06:25 PM
|
#82
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,459
|
Re: Protein will kill you ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurence
My faith is in the old phrase, "Follow the money".* What do insurance companies look for when they perform medical tests for life insurance?*
|
We're all self-insuring here, right? * I'm pretty sure insurance companies ask your age, and maybe your height and weight, and then check your credit rating. * They don't really care what your individual risk is, they are playing the odds based on large-scale data.
|
|
|
Re: Protein will kill you ...
04-13-2006, 06:29 PM
|
#83
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,459
|
Re: Protein will kill you ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by HaHa
Wab, could you post a reference to the study that underlies this book- the China Study? If I can't find it online, I will read it in the medical library.
|
Yeah, I'm too lazy to read the manuscript, but the book was just right. Let me know what you find.
Chen, J, Campbell T C, Li J, et al. Diet, Life-style and mortality in China. A study of the characteristics of 65 counties. Oxford University Press; Cornell University Press; People's Medical Publishing House, 1990.
|
|
|
Re: Protein will kill you ...
04-13-2006, 06:42 PM
|
#84
|
|
Re: Protein will kill you ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by wab
We're all self-insuring here, right? I'm pretty sure insurance companies ask your age, and maybe your height and weight, and then check your credit rating. They don't really care what your individual risk is, they are playing the odds based on large-scale data.
|
Oh, yes they care! - I just went through this. They sent a nurse out to our house, took a blood sample, urine sample, blood pressure - the works! - Weighed us! - Measured waistlines. - This was John Hancock!
|
|
|
Re: Protein will kill you ...
04-13-2006, 07:09 PM
|
#85
|
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Diego
Posts: 5,267
|
Re: Protein will kill you ...
Exactly, did big blood work up on me, Cholesterol, Tri, blood pressure, etc.
|
|
|
Re: Protein will kill you ...
04-13-2006, 07:09 PM
|
#86
|
Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 84
|
Re: Protein will kill you ...
The original study is a huge volume (almost 900 pages). From online reviews it seems like it is just an enormous collection of data with very little interpretation. So unless you are (or were ) a biostatistician good luck digging the relevant info out of it.
__________________
"The one who creates does not wait for an opportunity, blaming circumstances, the fates, and the gods. He seizes opportunities or creates them with the magic wand of his will, effort, and searching discrimination"<br />-Yogananda
|
|
|
Re: Protein will kill you ...
04-13-2006, 07:20 PM
|
#87
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Losing my whump
Posts: 22,708
|
Re: Protein will kill you ...
Yeah, the ins co's wont want you if you're fat or have any condition thats going to require them to pay for any pills.
__________________
Be fearful when others are greedy, and greedy when others are fearful. Just another form of "buy low, sell high" for those who have trouble with things. This rule is not universal. Do not buy a 1973 Pinto because everyone else is afraid of it.
|
|
|
Re: Protein will kill you ...
04-13-2006, 09:30 PM
|
#88
|
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,983
|
Re: Protein will kill you ...
I ordered The China Study from my Library, but it has a long wait list. I also intend to look at the monograph.
In poking around the internet, the interesting thing is that in spite of T. Colin Campbell having what sound like high quality bona fides, his book is published by an off brand publishing house, and he spends his time traveling the country giving speeches to groups like "Montgomery County Vegans", or "Meat Out".
I also got to wondering if perhaps there aren't considerable differences between rural China and urban Western countries that go well beyond what they eat. In this regard there was an interesting study some time ago that found that Japanese men who migrated to the USA had lower CHD if they adopted an American diet but maintained Japanese social customs, than if they ate Japanese but otherwise lived American.
Also, there have been many studies over quite a few years on vegetarianism in western countries. There are plenty of women in particular who have been vegetarian their whole lives or almost so. Here is a summary of some of these studies, on 7th Day Adventists and other groups. This paper was presented at a conference of vegetarians .
http://www.ivu.org/oxveg/Talks/longtermhealthveg.html
It is quite interesting, but it doesn't seem likely that there is going to be a large effect.
Ha
__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
|
|
|
Re: Protein will kill you ...
04-13-2006, 09:56 PM
|
#89
|
Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,856
|
Re: Protein will kill you ...
Hey, Cut-Throat, as long as you're looking at Okinawa, take a look at the two books in this post:
http://early-retirement.org/forums/i...20658#msg20658
The Okinawa Diet Plan caused me to add more fish, more tofu, a lot more fresh fruits & veggies, to eat less than satiety, and to eat several smaller meals instead of three big 'uns.
I'm not sure which side of Walford I'm on but it's hard to ignore his results.
__________________
*
Co-author (with my daughter) of “Raising Your Money-Savvy Family For Next Generation Financial Independence.”
Author of the book written on E-R.org: "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement."
I don't spend much time here— please send a PM.
|
|
|
Re: Protein will kill you ...
04-13-2006, 10:57 PM
|
#90
|
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 4,459
|
Re: Protein will kill you ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by HaHa
|
Yup, I've also seen results that suggest that occasional meat eaters have lower mortality rates than vegans.
Some random thoughts:
The meaning of veg*an is different for different people.* * The traditional meaning says nothing about refined sugars, for example.
Campbell does talk about the importance of Vitamins D and B12, both of which might be deficient in some traditional veg*an diets.
One of my problems with the book was that it didn't cover mechanisms as much as I would have liked.* * The China Study was an ecological study.* *Nothing about mechanisms came directly from the study, but they did look at a lot of variables, including environmental factors other than diet.* * I haven't looked at the raw data, so I'm taking Campbell's interpretation on faith -- always a dangerous thing to do.*
I've mentioned that the book has its share of conspiracy theories, including stories of mainstream scientists and MD's who want to silence the pro-veggie talk.* *That sort of stuff always sets off my BS detector, so I think skepticism is warranted.
Even if Campbell is basically right, it's clear that we still have a lot to learn.* *No way is this the Last Word on diet/health.
|
|
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Recent Threads
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
» Quick Links
|
|
|