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Re: Retirement Turns Into a Rest Stop
Old 02-11-2005, 03:14 PM   #61
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Re: Retirement Turns Into a Rest Stop

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Sure there are tweaks that can avert problems, but this new private account plan isn't one of them! *That's all I'm saying. *In fact I stated what tweaks I support earlier in this thread. *Well, judging from all the miscommunication, bashing, etc. etc. going on in just this thread among a subset of the population that is probably wealthier, more educated, and laid back than the average, it's easy to see how so little gets done in Whashington....
Well, this is something we can agree on.
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Re: Retirement Turns Into a Rest Stop
Old 02-11-2005, 03:24 PM   #62
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Re: Retirement Turns Into a Rest Stop

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Martha_M said:

Your very words indicate a culture of dependency, specifically "expecting society to have a safety net." *Because that safety net is there--or perhaps more accurately, because people *expect* that safety net to be there--many people depend on that expectation and neglect to plan for their own retirement, their own health care, their own savings. *Why should they, if "society" is going to provide it for them?
Just my opinion, I could be wrong, but the spirit of this post seems to me to say there should be no safety net.

Judy
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Re: Retirement Turns Into a Rest Stop
Old 02-11-2005, 04:17 PM   #63
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Re: Retirement Turns Into a Rest Stop

Follow up for Cal,

I had to run and pick my daughter up, so I ended prematurely. Your statement on people donating less during economic downturns; do you have facts/data to back that up? Statements made with an authorative tone tend not to be questioned, but I have my doubts. I have nothing but anecdotal evidence to the contrary, but among my circle of friends, income bears almost no correlation to charitable giving. I have a young millionaire friend who does not donate at all, and friends poorer than me who put me to shame. Your statement also implies that the government would not scale back in lean years, yet every time the economy turns down, it's the programs for the least well off in society that are first on the chopping block!

To get to your first point though, I should have put a smiley face next to my Third Reich reference, as I was joking around, but yes, I didn't need to go to such extremes to make my point. These are all complex issues, I am definitely for a safety net, I just think it shouldn't be counted on for retirement, or all of it, anyway. Next year, due to the pesription drug benefit (boo) Medicare will start burning more money than it takes in, and in 2018, SS will start burning more than it takes in. At those points, the debate will stop being academic and start getting painful. (And to those who would say SS has enough in it's trust to pay all accounts through 2044, that's not money in there, it's IOU's left by congress after it was raided for the general fund-try cashing that!)
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Re: Retirement Turns Into a Rest Stop
Old 02-13-2005, 04:30 PM   #64
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Re: Retirement Turns Into a Rest Stop

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I do. I support food stamp programs. And I supported AFDC and general assistance when they existed. I know many disagree with me.
That's different, Martha.

When it comes to food, those programs you mention only go to poor people. In the US today, poor people also qualify for Medicaid, so their medical care is covered.

But from what you've written, you seem to believe that everyone has a right to health care even if they're not all that poor.

Food is more important than health care. Surely, then, everyone has a right to food even if they're not all that poor.

I'm an everyone. Are you volunteering to raise your taxes (pssst, Uncle Sam, take more from Martha) so that I can have rack of lamb every night?

If so, it's simpler just to send me the money directly.

If not, your support of universal health care at someone else's expense is hypocritical. Believe me, I need racks of lamb way more than most people need hip replacements.


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Re: Retirement Turns Into a Rest Stop
Old 02-13-2005, 06:59 PM   #65
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Re: Retirement Turns Into a Rest Stop

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I'm an everyone. *Are you volunteering to raise your taxes (pssst, Uncle Sam, take more from Martha) so that I can have rack of lamb every night?
If so, it's simpler just to send me the money directly.
If not, your support of universal health care at someone else's expense is hypocritical. *Believe me, I need racks of lamb way more than most people need hip replacements.
Whoops! Time for some logic review. There might be a good online course for you?

Mikey
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Re: Retirement Turns Into a Rest Stop
Old 02-13-2005, 07:02 PM   #66
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Re: Retirement Turns Into a Rest Stop

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Thanks for the sp correction, I hate it when I do that.
Have a nice journey to the afterlife.
Judy
That's what I like about women! They can tell you to go to hell and make it sound like a benediction.

Mikey
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Re: Retirement Turns Into a Rest Stop
Old 02-14-2005, 06:02 AM   #67
 
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Re: Retirement Turns Into a Rest Stop

I agree Mikey. My spouse does that to me all the time

Re. "accusations", "rancor", etc etc. IMHO you need to
retain your sense of humor and not take yourself too
seriously. After all, we are all in this together and
ultimately face the same fate. I have an advantage in having
extraordinarily thick skin as well as being naturally
confrontational. When I was young I actually enjoyed a
good fight. Anyway, people have different views and getting it out there is healthy, I forget who said it but
"I may not agree with a thing you say, but will defend to
the death your right to say it!". I agree with that.

JG
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Re: Retirement Turns Into a Rest Stop
Old 02-15-2005, 11:10 AM   #68
 
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Re: Retirement Turns Into a Rest Stop

I once asked my father-in-law (75) how his parents/grandparents viewed retirement. His reply was that there was no such thing as retirement in his parents days - they just worked until they died...or they were supported by thier kids.

If I remember right - that's one reason people used to have large families - to make sure that you were supported in your old age (of course the other was that there was no such thing as "the Pill").

This retirement thing is a pretty new thing in society. Social Security was started because of the Great Depression and had a number of purposes (remember that Keynes felt that government spending was the key to improving the economy).

Of course now we have globalization to muck up the works. I'm sure when a lot of people retired - the company also expected to live up to the bargain - they didn't count on global competition putting them out of business (as in the steel companies). If I remember right - $2K-$4K of every US car goes to the GM/Ford etc. retirement plan.

BTW - medical expenses and health care economics are really tricky - I believe that 80%-90% of medical expenses occurs in the last 2 years of life. Of course the question is - how do you predict the last 2 years of life


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Re: Retirement Turns Into a Rest Stop
Old 02-15-2005, 11:15 AM   #69
 
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Re: Retirement Turns Into a Rest Stop

I once asked my father-in-law (75) how his parents/grandparents viewed retirement. His reply was that there was no such thing as retirement in his parents days - they just worked until they died...or they were supported by thier kids.

If I remember right - that's one reason people used to have large families - to make sure that you were supported in your old age (of course the other was that there was no such thing as "the Pill").

This retirement thing is a pretty new thing in society. Social Security was started because of the Great Depression and had a number of purposes (remember that Keynes felt that government spending was the key to improving the economy).

Of course now we have globalization to muck up the works. I'm sure when a lot of people retired - the company also expected to live up to the bargain - they didn't count on global competition putting them out of business (as in the steel companies). If I remember right - $2K-$4K of every US car goes to the GM/Ford etc. retirement plan.

BTW - medical expenses and health care economics are really tricky - I believe that 80%-90% of medical expenses occurs in the last 2 years of life. Of course the question is - how do you predict the last 2 years of life


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