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Old 02-15-2015, 11:56 AM   #161
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The link doesn't point to an official UK government site. In fact, the independent means visa was discontinued in 2008. See the second page of this pdf, which is on an official UK government site:

http://tinyurl.com/mnbyo4y

The key quote is:

On 27 November 2008 the retired persons of independent means immigration category was closed to new entrants. This means people:
-cannot enter the UK in this category
-already here in a different category cannot switch into retired persons of independent means.
Thanks for the link.

On page 11 of the doc. it looks like the over 60, greater than 25,000 pounds, and ties to UK still work, no?
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Old 02-15-2015, 12:26 PM   #162
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Good catch Peter. I was not aware that they had closed that door. Just goes to show that the 'rules' change all the time. So it's back to the drawing board for someone who wants to retire to the UK.


Meadbh, paranoia is never justified by definition. paranoia - definition of paranoia by The Free Dictionary It is an extreme, IRRATIONAL distrust of others. Fear is sometimes justifiable but not paranoia.

In my opinion (and I am entitled to one, we are all entitled to judge and all do so), the fears expressed here regarding some things border on paranoia. Who are you to say their concerns are 'very real'? I can't say they overreact but you can say they don't? It doesn't work that way Meadbh, you don't get to tell me my judgement is wrong and your judgement is right or their judgement is right. You get to disargree with me and have your own opinion and judgement, that's all you get. I am not alone in thinking Americans tend to the paranoid. Do some reading:
https://www.google.ca/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=...icans+paranoid
If you Google the opposite, 'Americans not paranoid' you get the same hits. In other words, there are lot of articles on Americans being paranoid and none saying the opposite.

Regarding my tone. Tone is a sound, it is not written. In all one on one communication, 55% of the message is conveyed through body language, 38% through tone and only 7% through the actual words used. You may THINK you can imply a tone from the written word but in fact you may be wrong in how you perceive it as often as you are right. I am direct in my writing and in my speech. I don't beat around the bush or concern myself overly with being 'pc'. You may well confuse that directness with a 'tone' you don't approve of, but that is something you are guessing at, not something you know to be a fact. So please do not presume to tell me what tone I am using or why.

"Please consider taking a less critical, less confrontational approach." You are incorrect in your judgement Meadbh. Please consider confining your comments to the subject and not making personal remarks about me.
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Old 02-15-2015, 12:35 PM   #163
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Thanks for the link.

On page 11 of the doc. it looks like the over 60, greater than 25,000 pounds, and ties to UK still work, no?

I think you're referring to this:

You may grant leave to remain if the applicant:
- arrived in the UK with valid entry clearance as a retired person of independent means
- has made the UK their main home
- has a minimum disposable income of their own of 25,000 a year under their control in the UK (net of any overseas or UK tax)
- can demonstrate a close connection with the UK
- has maintained and accommodated themselves and any dependants without working here or abroad and without using public funds.

The way I read the above is that leave to remain may be granted, if the applicant is already in the UK under the old retired person rules. That reflects what is on page 2, which effectively says "if you're here, you can stay, but we're closing the door to new applicants".
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Old 02-15-2015, 12:39 PM   #164
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Good catch Peter. I was not aware that they had closed that door. Just goes to show that the 'rules' change all the time. So it's back to the drawing board for someone who wants to retire to the UK.
Yes, quite a few immigration doors have been closed recently!

The UK isn't the only place, either. Australia used to have a fairly attractive retirement visa, but the requirements have been tightened up a lot, to the point where I don't think too many people would now be interested.
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Old 02-15-2015, 12:43 PM   #165
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Originally Posted by Sojourning View Post
Good catch Peter. I was not aware that they had closed that door. Just goes to show that the 'rules' change all the time. So it's back to the drawing board for someone who wants to retire to the UK.


Meadbh, paranoia is never justified by definition. paranoia - definition of paranoia by The Free Dictionary It is an extreme, IRRATIONAL distrust of others. Fear is sometimes justifiable but not paranoia.

In my opinion (and I am entitled to one, we are all entitled to judge and all do so), the fears expressed here regarding some things border on paranoia. Who are you to say their concerns are 'very real'? I can't say they overreact but you can say they don't? It doesn't work that way Meadbh, you don't get to tell me my judgement is wrong and your judgement is right or their judgement is right. You get to disargree with me and have your own opinion and judgement, that's all you get. I am not alone in thinking Americans tend to the paranoid. Do some reading:
https://www.google.ca/?gfe_rd=cr&ei=...icans+paranoid
If you Google the opposite, 'Americans not paranoid' you get the same hits. In other words, there are lot of articles on Americans being paranoid and none saying the opposite.

Regarding my tone. Tone is a sound, it is not written. In all one on one communication, 55% of the message is conveyed through body language, 38% through tone and only 7% through the actual words used. You may THINK you can imply a tone from the written word but in fact you may be wrong in how you perceive it as often as you are right. I am direct in my writing and in my speech. I don't beat around the bush or concern myself overly with being 'pc'. You may well confuse that directness with a 'tone' you don't approve of, but that is something you are guessing at, not something you know to be a fact. So please do not presume to tell me what tone I am using or why.

"Please consider taking a less critical, less confrontational approach." You are incorrect in your judgement Meadbh. Please consider confining your comments to the subject and not making personal remarks about me.
On the contrary, Soujourning, I took great care to criticize your approach and the tone of your comments, not you personally. If only you knew just how judgmental your posts sound! I will not argue further with you, but I am considering adding you to my Ignore list.
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Old 02-15-2015, 12:51 PM   #166
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I think you're referring to this:

You may grant leave to remain if the applicant:
- arrived in the UK with valid entry clearance as a retired person of independent means
- has made the UK their main home
- has a minimum disposable income of their own of 25,000 a year under their control in the UK (net of any overseas or UK tax)
- can demonstrate a close connection with the UK
- has maintained and accommodated themselves and any dependants without working here or abroad and without using public funds.

The way I read the above is that leave to remain may be granted, if the applicant is already in the UK under the old retired person rules. That reflects what is on page 2, which effectively says "if you're here, you can stay, but we're closing the door to new applicants".
I am no lawyer, nor did I read it like I would a contract, but they (UK immigration) spend 40 pages after the referencing of 2008 change, which is an awful lot of pages to say it is no longer available.

But it is more than a bit confusing...
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Old 02-15-2015, 12:57 PM   #167
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"I am considering adding you to my Ignore list."

Please do.
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Old 02-15-2015, 01:04 PM   #168
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This has been (and continues to be) an interesting thread at least for me. It would be nice if everyone, who needs it, takes a step back so it does not devolve into something off topic...
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Old 02-15-2015, 01:43 PM   #169
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Regarding my tone. Tone is a sound, it is not written. In all one on one communication, 55% of the message is conveyed through body language, 38% through tone and only 7% through the actual words used. You may THINK you can imply a tone from the written word but in fact you may be wrong in how you perceive it as often as you are right. I am direct in my writing and in my speech. I don't beat around the bush or concern myself overly with being 'pc'. You may well confuse that directness with a 'tone' you don't approve of, but that is something you are guessing at, not something you know to be a fact. So please do not presume to tell me what tone I am using or why.

"Please consider taking a less critical, less confrontational approach." You are incorrect in your judgement Meadbh. Please consider confining your comments to the subject and not making personal remarks about me.
You appear to believe you are more intelligent than everyone else here. You are not. And if you do not improve your tone, you will be banned. Is that direct enough?
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Old 02-15-2015, 02:57 PM   #170
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I was under the impression for the UK that if you are willing to park 2 million Sterling in UK gilts you are good to go?


UK Investor Visa for Migration to the United Kingdom › VISA.UK.COM
Yes you could do that. It;s not impossible to retire to the UK without at EU passport or significant UK ties....just almost impossible. The "retiree of independent means" visa was discontinued a while ago, but if you have a spare 2 million pounds to invest in the UK you can come in on an investors visa....I'm thinking that would be a significant hurdle for most people thinking about retiring outside the US.

FYI for Medicare Part A is free, Part B is about $100/month and then you have to do Parts C dn D or buy a supplementary policy that might cost another $100/month maybe more.
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Old 02-15-2015, 04:37 PM   #171
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Gumby, I do not believe I am more intelligent than everyone else here. I do KNOW I am more intelligent than some. I'm here to discuss the SUBJECT of the thread. I know how to stick to the topic.

"I took great care to criticize your approach and the tone of your comments, not you personally." Obviously, meadbh does not know what the word 'your' means. Apparently you don't either since you wrote basically the same thing.

The word 'your' as in 'your approach' and 'your tone' refers to ME personally. Who else could it be referring to? It is not relevant to the subject of the thread and is a personal attack. What are your forum rules about that?

I am happy to stick to the subject but will not tolerate insults by Meadbh or anyone else. Is that direct enough? I know who is breaking the forum rules here.

So here's what I will do. I will stick to the subject of this thread if you both do the same. I am in agreement with LARS, this is an interesting subject that doesn't need to go off TOPIC.
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Old 02-15-2015, 04:43 PM   #172
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You were warned.
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Old 02-15-2015, 05:05 PM   #173
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Let's hope he was intelligent enough to not allow the doorknob to hit him on the way out...
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Old 02-15-2015, 06:38 PM   #174
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Well, that was interesting! (Dusts self off). Thank you to the mods for taking charge of the situation.

Now back to regular business:

What do members think about the idea of relocating abroad in retirement if you have never lived abroad before?

I read about people who do this and wonder whether they have any idea what they are undertaking. Visas, permits, customs, language, alienation, unexpected glitches and missing home are just the beginning.

I moved countries several times as a young person in search of a career dream and have no regrets, but when I look back at all the challenges I faced (alone) I am not sure I could motivate myself to do it again at this point in my life.
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Old 02-15-2015, 06:43 PM   #175
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Well, that was interesting! (Dusts self off). Thank you to the mods for taking charge of the situation.

Now back to regular business:

What do members think about the idea of relocating abroad in retirement if you have never lived abroad before?

I read about people who do this and wonder whether they have any idea what they are undertaking. Visas, permits, customs, language, alienation, unexpected glitches and missing home are just the beginning.

I moved countries several times as a young person in search of a career dream and have no regrets, but when I look back at all the challenges I faced (alone) I am not sure I could motivate myself to do it again at this point in my life.
I had a hard enough time relocating from Northern California to Southern California, and I'd lived down here before, in the general area. I can't imagine making the adjustments required to retire to another country entirely, especially all the paperwork.

Still, I do have starry-eyed dreams of taking one of those Cunard liners over with a beagle or two in the kennel and renting a place in England for a few months. This thread gave me ideas. (Don't tell DH.)
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Old 02-15-2015, 07:28 PM   #176
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Oh, the irony. Sojourning has gone traveling.
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Old 02-15-2015, 07:36 PM   #177
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Stuff like that says something about all involved.
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Old 02-15-2015, 08:05 PM   #178
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I had never lived abroad and have been happily retired and living in Peru for over 10 years. I was having coffee this afternoon with several ER types who are planning to live here either most of the year or full time, One the Deputy Attorney General for a very large state and neither gentleman has lived overseas, but after travelling here dozens of times over many years, foresee no problems with the transition. In my limited experience it is single guys or divorcee's that easily make the transition, as well as some guy's that leave the spouse and kid's back home.
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Old 02-16-2015, 08:38 AM   #179
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I had never lived abroad and have been happily retired and living in Peru for over 10 years. I was having coffee this afternoon with several ER types who are planning to live here either most of the year or full time, One the Deputy Attorney General for a very large state and neither gentleman has lived overseas, but after travelling here dozens of times over many years, foresee no problems with the transition. In my limited experience it is single guys or divorcee's that easily make the transition, as well as some guy's that leave the spouse and kid's back home.
NYEXPAT, whereabouts in Peru, I spent several weeks there in Lima and Pisco for work, when in Lima (late 80's) we were warned to not go outside a small area around our hotel because of political marches and protests. When in Pisco we were not allowed off the military base at all so we did not get to see much there either. I remember seeing a lot of trash along the main road into Lima and around the rivers or drainage ditches. I bet it has changes, but just wanted to know. We did a lot of flying around and got to see a lot from the air like the Nazca lines and drawings, some areas seem pretty desolate.
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Old 02-16-2015, 08:48 AM   #180
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NY Expat, I admire you for calling Peru your home, and wish you the best. I'd like to attempt to do that simply because it would certainly be a challenge and an adventure. However, I'm unsure whether it would be best for me now.

I mentioned earlier on this thread that my whole working life was overseas (from 22 years old to 66 years old). I'm now a homeowner, which for me is a big thing, and I look at this as being an adventure, also. I live in Washington state, 25 minutes from Vancouver, and like to immerse myself in multi-cultural Vancouver. I return to a house on the water to look at White Rock, Canada from my back door in Washington state.

I believe, but not sure, that most of the respondents on this thread are younger than 68. I'd find it rough to take a chance making a permanent move now to a place like Peru and not be able to use Medicare, which is probably the main reason for returning to the States.

I think being in an area in the US that has an international flavor can give you the same feeling as being overseas. My life here is simple. I like that. I would certainly like to travel to Peru and spend a couple months there, but do you plan on being there in your 70's, or is this something more geared for ER types with the idea of eventually moving back to the States?


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