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Old 12-22-2008, 11:36 AM   #61
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Continuing a marriage for financial reasons shows a lack of respect for marital vows, and I would never respect someone who did that.
I'm sure they would be deeply wounded by this.

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Part of the implicit marital vows are that your partner is also your best friend and confidante.
So what is recommended when your only legal confidant is terribly ill, and you are worried sick? Go find a paid friend like a therapist?

And how about when your only legal confidant dies? If you are a man, you had better have some women friends, because men are sometimes not the most empathic beings in the universe.

Last but not least, aren't people different enough from one another, individual enough, so that it is fun to have a wider group of friends?

Ha
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Old 12-22-2008, 11:41 AM   #62
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Sometimes I wonder if that isn't too much to expect from one person.
I've been blessed in that my wife *is* my best friend and closest confidante. Having said that, I don't believe that "forsaking all others" means a vow to forego close platonic friendships.

Nevertheless, I can understand the school of thought which is wary enough that it's better to avoid all chances for temptation and suspicion to develop. In any event, whichever side you're on, it just shows how important it is to make sure you and your SO (or SO-to-be) are on relatively similar pages where this sort of thing is concerned. Better for this difference to be a dealbreaker before you get too close than after hearts get broken...

I love my wife dearly and more than anything else in this world, but sometimes we both crave the company of other people as well for other perspectives on things, for different stuff we like to talk about, that sort of thing. I'd personally hate to think I have to eliminate half of the human race from consideration. For example, my wife has recently caught the knitting bug, and my eyes gloss over when she talks about knitting (which is a lot lately). I wouldn't mind it if she found a male friend who enjoyed talking about knitting with her -- if I knew about it, and about him, and I trusted them.

Of course, if I were burned in a past relationship by infidelity with a "friend" or had close friends/family who were, my attitude may be slightly less "open" in that respect.
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Old 12-22-2008, 11:47 AM   #63
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And how about when your only legal confidant dies? If you are a man, you had better have some women friends, because men are sometimes not the most empathic beings in the universe.
Actually, where I live there are so many widowed women that whether you had many women friends or not, you'd probably soon have a lot of suitors, at least if you were halfway decent relationship material. My wife sometimes jokes that at least she doesn't have to worry about me being unwillingly lonely if she meets an untimely end...
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"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

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Old 12-22-2008, 12:00 PM   #64
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If you are a man, you had better have some women friends, because men are sometimes not the most empathic beings in the universe.
Best quote of the last month on here.........
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Old 12-22-2008, 12:03 PM   #65
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So what is recommended when your only legal confidant is terribly ill, and you are worried sick? Go find a paid friend like a therapist?

And how about when your only legal confidant dies? If you are a man, you had better have some women friends, because men are sometimes not the most empathic beings in the universe.

Last but not least, aren't people different enough from one another, individual enough, so that it is fun to have a wider group of friends?
I am not recommending, or even urging or trying to persuade others in some sort of evangelical way to adopt my moral/ethical framework any more than I would try to urge or persuade others to adopt my religious or political views. You posed a question as to what is wrong with certain behaviors... and my answer is that I have an ethical/moral framework that distinguishes right and wrong, and what these distinctions are to me; and finally I think/hope I explained that to me this is wrong. As for you and others who have responded, do as you will. What you think and do in these matters is not my business. What I think and do is very much my business.
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Old 12-22-2008, 12:04 PM   #66
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When I first read these postings I was kind of at the black & white stance but the more I think about it there are a lot of gray areas . Suppose you are married but your spouse is in a coma for years or in a nursing home with Alzheimer's and doesn't even know you . Are you supposed to just lead a lonely life for years ? In an ideal world we would all forsake all others but this is not an ideal world . I would not cheat on my SO but I do not judge what other people would do under different circumstances .
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Old 12-22-2008, 12:39 PM   #67
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When I first read these postings I was kind of at the black & white stance but the more I think about it there are a lot of gray areas . Suppose you are married but your spouse is in a coma for years or in a nursing home with Alzheimer's and doesn't even know you . Are you supposed to just lead a lonely life for years ? In an ideal world we would all forsake all others but this is not an ideal world . I would not cheat on my SO but I do not judge what other people would do under different circumstances .
To me morality is not harsh and punitive. It is loving. If I had a wife or SO, and I were incapacitated such that I could not be the full meal deal for my woman, I would much rather that she hang in with me, help me, comfort me. If she needed a lover somewhere to do this, it would hurt but be entirely understandable, and easy for me to prefer over being abandoned, or over her being hard bitten and frustrated and eventually resentful.

ha
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Old 12-22-2008, 12:41 PM   #68
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Continuing a marriage for financial reasons shows a lack of respect for marital vows, and I would never respect someone who did that.
Can you respect folks who live together in a commited relationship but don't marry for financial reasons? For example, two professionals with equal incomes who would pay higher taxes if married.......

I don't. They should marry and pay our govt for the privilege.....as I do!
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Old 12-22-2008, 12:48 PM   #69
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Can you respect folks who live together in a commited relationship but don't marry for financial reasons? For example, two professionals with equal incomes who would pay higher taxes if married.......

I don't. They should marry and pay our govt for the privilege.....as I do!
? I assume you are joking. Otherwise it sounds like you are saying that you married in order to pay more taxes. You can pay all the taxes you want (and more) while single, I assure you.
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Old 12-22-2008, 12:56 PM   #70
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? I assume you are joking. Otherwise it sounds like you are saying that you married in order to pay more taxes. You can pay all the taxes you want (and more) while single, I assure you.
No, not joking...... The marriage penalty is alive and well. And DW and I know two commited couples that live together but don't marry strictly to avoid paying the higher taxes! We wouldn't change our situation, but sometimes there is a bit of jealously as April 15th approaches!

DW and I didn't marry in order to pay more taxes (how did you get that out of my post?), but as a result of being married we do pay more taxes just as a result of the way the tax code is written.

You said:

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Continuing a marriage for financial reasons shows a lack of respect for marital vows, and I would never respect someone who did that.
And I was just wondering if you also wouldn't respect someone who remained unmarried for financial reasons?
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Old 12-22-2008, 01:06 PM   #71
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Can you respect folks who live together in a commited relationship but don't marry for financial reasons? For example, two professionals with equal incomes who would pay higher taxes if married.......

I don't. They should marry and pay our govt for the privilege.....as I do!
You Bet , I never thought about this but in a sense you are right . I know lots of singles who do not marry because of pensions so they are staying single for financial reasons so what is the difference between people staying married for financial reasons ?
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Old 12-22-2008, 01:36 PM   #72
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You Bet , I never thought about this but in a sense you are right . I know lots of singles who do not marry because of pensions so they are staying single for financial reasons so what is the difference between people staying married for financial reasons ?
There is no difference.......
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Old 12-22-2008, 01:58 PM   #73
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They're evil-doers...every last one of them!
(tongue placed firmly in cheek)
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:04 PM   #74
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They're evil-doers...every last one of them!
(tongue placed firmly in cheek)

Even me ??
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:09 PM   #75
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I enjoy close relationships outside of my marriage. To not do so, IMO would be a dismal life. Again, this is my opinion, YMMV.
Your cuffs or mind?
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:16 PM   #76
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Even me ??
Well, I dunno Moe....

I did mention in my post that it was a "tongue in cheek" remark...so I was joking.

I've always gone against the grain, so I'll consider myself evil. ....and a doer.
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:17 PM   #77
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Your cuffs or mind?
You do have a thing about cuffs now don't you?
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:24 PM   #78
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You do have a thing about cuffs now don't you?
I've always heard....the quite ones are the worst kind.
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:52 PM   #79
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I've always heard....the quite ones are the worst kind.
bbbamI? Quiet? Now that's a hoot!!
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Old 12-22-2008, 02:55 PM   #80
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where morality refers to correct conduct, and where the ultimately successful human experience is understanding the self, the examined life, then superior morality reflects in behavior which leads to knowing true self. behavior which hides your true self from yourself or which denies or inhibits opportunity to explore yourself is therefore maybe not so moral afterall, but rather just weakness disguised as morality.

great ethics are reflected in the respect & compassion you offer others, especially as you exercise your morality in the exploration of yourself.
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