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Old 09-09-2016, 01:39 PM   #61
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We'll probably grab some lunch, and then hopefully we can check into our Airbnb or hotel a little early, grab a nap, and take it from there. Worst case we're off kilter for a day or two.
Do NOT take a nap! It makes it harder for your body to adjust to the new timezone and extends jetlag. Best thing to do is go outside and get sunlight, and try not to go to bed till a somewhat normal time. Try to get some sunlight first thing in the morning too- it really helps with jet lag-
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Old 09-09-2016, 01:43 PM   #62
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Business class is not LBYM but you'll never convince people who can afford it that they shouldn't buy it.
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Old 09-09-2016, 01:44 PM   #63
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I sometimes wonder if I could do sit ups and push ups in the aisle
Yeah, there isn't much of that going on in First.

As I noted earlier you also tend to avoid crying babies, people who put their bare feet up on your headrest and other challenges. I once did have a couple having sex in the seat behind me though.
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Old 09-09-2016, 01:47 PM   #64
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Business class is not LBYM but you'll never convince people who can afford it that they shouldn't buy it.
I suppose it would depend on what 'your means' are.

I've always viewed LBYM as just not spending as much as you make, not always taking the cheapest way out.
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Old 09-09-2016, 02:01 PM   #65
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If you start a thread about jet lag a couple of months before you go I bet you will get a lot of great tips on how to deal with it.
You aren't kidding! It's different for different folks; no one is the same. I flew all over the world (Air Force flight crew) and I would go as far to say that every trip was different. Even though I made hundreds trips across the pond between Delaware to Germany, my jet lag symptoms could vary wildly depending on many, many factors. For me, flying west to east was much easier than east to west and for the *most* part, the time to adjust was 1/2 day per time zone. The worst jet lag I have ever had was coming back stateside from New Zealand...it took me a good 10 days to get back on track.

As far as upgrading, I am torn about this. I am a bigger fellow (6'3" and about 240 pounds) so the idea of sitting in coach for 10+ hours is nauseating to me. Then again, spending $1000+ more to be a "little" more comfortable is also nauseating. I don't miss the AF too much, but it was very nice to cruise around in a very large airplane that had pretty nice sleeping quarters onboard!
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Old 09-09-2016, 02:44 PM   #66
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Moemg -
I would look at seatguru to see if the airline offers flat seats in business. If they don't I'd just do premium economy. We upgraded (because of a great deal) to biz class for our 9 week europe trip last year. (But the kids were in the back of the plane on the return - didn't upgrade them.) Our trip over had "almost flat" seats... but not the fancier lay flat seats. On the return, DH and I had the lay flat seats - but of course the flight was during the day so sleep was less important.

I'm currently pricing/planning a trip for summer 2017 to Japan. I always price all seating options... and if there's a "deal" I'm ready to go for it. But I was checking flights today - and it looks like JAL doesn't offer lay flat business seats on the flights I'm looking for. So if we upgrade on those flights it will be for premium economy rather than business.

Kids will be in the back of the plane, regardless... but my kids are older than FUEGO's kids.

Check Seatguru.com before you make your decision....
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Old 09-09-2016, 02:55 PM   #67
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Kids will be in the back of the plane, regardless... but my kids are older than FUEGO's kids.
Their age is even more reason for me to escape the craziness and leave them in the back of the plane for quieter pastures in economy plus or biz class.

We were/are thinking about tacking on a side trip to Japan on top of a Europe trip next summer because we can book the Japan leg for only an extra 50,000 United miles total (plus a couple hundred in taxes probably). But just can't imagine sitting in any class of the plane for the flights to/from Japan with a hyperactive 5 year old (he's currently sliding down the stairs in cardboard boxes right now as I type and hasn't sat still since 6 am (11 hours ago... ohgodpleasehelp ).

On a different note, did you ever post a "trip report" here on your summer trip? I'm consuming as much media as I can right now to plan for our summer 2017 trip. Rick Steves' videos are great (and free on youtube) but seem to cater to adults (museums, churches, concerts, art, culture).
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Old 09-09-2016, 03:01 PM   #68
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Do NOT take a nap! It makes it harder for your body to adjust to the new timezone and extends jetlag. Best thing to do is go outside and get sunlight, and try not to go to bed till a somewhat normal time. Try to get some sunlight first thing in the morning too- it really helps with jet lag-
Yeah, those are the kind of jet lag tips I thought Fuego might find helpful, but I guess not.
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Old 09-09-2016, 07:22 PM   #69
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Regarding jet lag, I have found it best to set my watch (yes I still wear one) to local time, and then try to "live" in that time going forward. I make some adjustments for eating, but basically try to be on local time when I land. This easier to/from Asia. Flying to Europe you almost always land in the morning, and are toast by 3pm.


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Old 09-09-2016, 10:05 PM   #70
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If you're going to spend more, why not go with premium economy, take the $1200 you saved, live it up an extra day in Europe, and pocket part of the savings vs business class.
+1
Just what I was thinking, an extra day in Barcelona and the price difference could easily cover a hotel, nice meals, a tour and souvenirs.

BUT, having read through the thread, I would tell the OP to go Business Class because they earned it, they already know they will be leaving their heirs money.
I always told my Mom go spend it, travel, enjoy yourself, take that side trip to Russia from Scandinavia.
I am so glad she did, she loved her trips a lot more than I would care about an extra few thousands of inheritance.
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Old 09-10-2016, 02:31 AM   #71
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I imagine the 5 hour difference to Europe in the other direction would actually help if we have a sleepless night flight to Europe. By 9-10 pm in Lisbon we'll be dead tired even though it would only be 4-5 pm in Raleigh. Hit the sheets for 10 hours and we'll be back to a mostly normal daytime schedule in local time. ......... I guess we'll see how this theory works out in practice....
No. Circadian rhythm doesn't work that way. I'll offer some data points to counter your theory. Just flew from Germany to San Diego, four nights there, then back to Germany. A 4 night, 6 day trip, spanning 9 time zones. And we've traveled DC to Germany with kids twice in the past year (6 time zones).

Every time, the trip sucks. Going is business class certainly makes it bearable, and you'll arrive in Europe in a much clearer state of mind, especially if you depart the US as late as possible. That way you can
actually get some REM sleep on the jet, which is important.

But regardless, your body will need at least 3 days to adjust to a 5 hour time difference, and you won't feel "right" until 5 days after the travel. On day 1 or 2, you'll think you are going strong, and then at 4pm, sitting in a comfy chair will result in an unintended 2-hour nap. And then at 2am in Europe, you'll be wide awake, regardless of what time you went to bed. THAT is jet lag!
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Old 09-10-2016, 06:42 AM   #72
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Have you considered getting a credit card(s) with a sign-up bonus of miles or points and using those for the busienss class fare? Chase sapphire reserve gets you 100k bonus right now. Perhaps use it to pay for the cruise and the points for the airfare. If you have enough spend you and your SO could each get one and hre points alone would be more than enough.
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Old 09-10-2016, 08:20 AM   #73
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Have you considered getting a credit card(s) with a sign-up bonus of miles or points and using those for the busienss class fare? Chase sapphire reserve gets you 100k bonus right now. Perhaps use it to pay for the cruise and the points for the airfare. If you have enough spend you and your SO could each get one and hre points alone would be more than enough.
A few months ago I got the Capital one venture card with a 40,000 miles bonus so I have 60,000 miles to put towards this trip . Having the money to pay for the trip is not the issue . It is whether I see the value in spending the money for the upgrade . I got to fire by being pretty cheap all my life so to let go now is hard even though I know I deserve it .I am leaning heavily towards business class especially since my travel days are winding down .
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Old 09-10-2016, 08:35 AM   #74
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A few months ago I got the Capital one venture card with a 40,000 miles bonus so I have 60,000 miles to put towards this trip . Having the money to pay for the trip is not the issue . It is whether I see the value in spending the money for the upgrade . I got to fire by being pretty cheap all my life so to let go now is hard even though I know I deserve it .I am leaning heavily towards business class especially since my travel days are winding down .
For international/TATL type flights, biz rewards often cost twice the miles of economy while biz purchase often costs 3-6 times economy. Your case is tougher since your biz purchase price is probably "only" 2x economy.
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Old 09-10-2016, 08:45 AM   #75
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I am leaning heavily towards business class especially since my travel days are winding down .
Go for it! I know that travel means a lot to you, so this sounds like a good way to spend your discretionary money.

In fact, I'd also suggest a pretty luxurious hotel or hotels, great restaurants, and similar top-of-the-line spending to help make this an amazing trip to remember with joy, for years to come. Since your travel days are winding down, your travel budget will be less in the future and you can afford more spending than usual for this particular trip, to make it the trip of your dreams. Take lots of photos, try not to over-do, and have a wonderful time.
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Old 09-10-2016, 09:26 AM   #76
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A few months ago I got the Capital one venture card with a 40,000 miles bonus so I have 60,000 miles to put towards this trip . Having the money to pay for the trip is not the issue . It is whether I see the value in spending the money for the upgrade . I got to fire by being pretty cheap all my life so to let go now is hard even though I know I deserve it .I am leaning heavily towards business class especially since my travel days are winding down .
Do it . The stars aligned and you worked hard for a long time, so you can afford it. I know what you would do with the $1300 if you don't spend it on business class--nothing . Better great memories in our hearts than excess cold cash in the bank at this stage of our lives.
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Old 09-10-2016, 10:20 AM   #77
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Do NOT take a nap! It makes it harder for your body to adjust to the new timezone and extends jetlag. Best thing to do is go outside and get sunlight, and try not to go to bed till a somewhat normal time. Try to get some sunlight first thing in the morning too- it really helps with jet lag-
This is very true. It's hard to do when you arrive (traveling eastward, like US to Europe) because a nap is what you want most. But it's so worth it to force yourself to stay up until normal European bedtime. You've accomplished a bit of sightseeing and next morning you're completely back to normal.
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Old 09-10-2016, 12:46 PM   #78
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Go for it! I know that travel means a lot to you, so this sounds like a good way to spend your discretionary money.

In fact, I'd also suggest a pretty luxurious hotel or hotels, great restaurants, and similar top-of-the-line spending to help make this an amazing trip to remember with joy, for years to come. Since your travel days are winding down, your travel budget will be less in the future and you can afford more spending than usual for this particular trip, to make it the trip of your dreams. Take lots of photos, try not to over-do, and have a wonderful time.
What she said!
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Old 09-10-2016, 03:47 PM   #79
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Is it possible that jet lag isn't such a big deal for some people? I can't recall feeling it at all when we flew the 3 hr time zone difference to Vegas a couple of times.

If I'm in Lisbon and wake up at 10 am. That's just like waking at 5 am at home (a bit earlier than when I get up during the school week). Though I'll likely be going to bed early on the first day anyway, so might be awake before 10 am on day 2. Maybe I need a nap on day 1, maybe I won't (mid-day naps rarely interrupt my ability to go to sleep in the evening; mid-day coffees however will keep me up all night).

Yeah the first day will suck, but that's going to be true regardless of class of flight (unless you can persuade me that first class is more comfortable than my quiet, dark, perfect temperature extremely soft king size mattress in a private bedroom).
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Old 09-10-2016, 04:58 PM   #80
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I've never done the Europe flight,
.........
Is it an age thing? Maybe I'll feel differently at 46 or 56 or 66 than I do now at 36.
With respect, Fuego, until you have travelled across 5-10 time zones, and at an older age than you are now, you have not experienced serious jet lag, and your advice to Moemg should be discounted accordingly.

In my experience, flights to and from a closely related time zone in South America are different animals from flights to and from Europe and Asia.
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