Tesla Model 3

[NW-Bound]

Regarding the production delay, things must be very stressful there. I happened to see the news of a director of battery engineering as well as a chief battery engineer leaving the company a couple of months ago. They had been at Tesla a while, and involved in the design of the earlier batteries.

In addition, the self-driving engineering group was like a revolving door with the chiefs not lasting that long. It was said that they butted head with Musk, and left.

[Zathras]

Agreed, I am sure it is a very high stress place to work.
Musk is having the idea of vertical integration reinforced yet again. Shame the contractor couldn't deliver. I am a bit surprised Tesla went with a contractor, other than Panasonic, for parts of the battery module assembly.
I am glad they are still shooting for 5000/week rate by the end of 2nd quarter.

On the lighter side of things, I pick mine up on Monday !!

[Ready]

I received an email from Tesla last week notifying me that my "early 2018" delivery date would now be "late 2018". So basically an entire year delay. And the only way to move that up would be to buy the model with a long range battery and premium interior, which starts at $49K not including the autopilot.

I sat in the car at a Tesla store last week and my immediate thought was that it feels like a $35K car, but not a $49K car. So I'm not inclined to want to pay for all the upgrades just to get it quicker. Unfortunately the federal tax credit will at best be $3,750 rather than $7,500, making the entire purchase even less appealing.

It's too bad Tesla couldn't ramp up quicker. I can see from the Tesla forums that customer frustration with this model is quite high. They may never really produce a $35K Model 3, in which case I guess we were all played when we put our deposits down two years ago.

[Zathras]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ready I received an email from Tesla last week notifying me that my "early 2018" delivery date would now be "late 2018". So basically an entire year delay. ...

Or basically a one week delay. Just as valid an option as assuming a year delay. Most likely, it will be more like a 6 month delay.
Putting down a deposit, for a product is always a risk. I completely understand the frustration, and frankly, am hoping enough people will cancel their reservation that it will send a very clear signal to Tesla.
The message being that they need to continue to make aggressive internal schedules, but need to market more reasonable, safer dates.

If you feel Tesla did this intentionally, or "played" you, you should cancel your reservation and get your money back.

[Totoro]

Tesla triggered a very good race to mass production EV. I'm quite doubtful they'll win in the end, GM and VW group not to mention Nissan are no small competitors. Yet I won't discount it at any instance and grateful Musk went for it.

They can't stay automotive. I just don't see the big automakers dropping the ball long enough. Odds ain't good, especially since there are no governments backing them. Unless they displace GM.

I wouldn't be surprised if they shifted away from cars entirely, sell off the automotive part and focus on the energy system (as OEM). It's the endgame anyway: solar panel to battery, powering everything, cheaper than oil and gas. It's one of the reasons solar city is in there.

[clifp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERD50 True, they do have to build the rest of the car, and I am also impressed that they have been able to pull this off and deliver several models. This isn't DeLorean, or some 'kit car' company. But it is the batteries that are causing delays: https://mashable.com/2018/02/08/tesl.../#DKEhvoWaXkqF -ERD50

As I've mentioned before a friend of mine son is the one of the top engineers in the battery unit. It is arguably one of the toughest pieces of engineering. You are packing a hell of a lot of energy into small space, it has to able to deliver that energy in a small amount of time (hence the acceleration). You have to be able to cool it. It needs to survivable and if it gets in an accident it has to overheat in a controlled fashion. The first Tesla S had roughly 4x more batteries than any other car in the market,and while the S is a lot bigger than Leaf,or a Volt it is not four times bigger. Tesla batteries have gone from 85KW to 100KW in the same space. in the last 5 years.

A couple years ago Elon was in the design meeting with my friend and he showed him the design for the battery unit. Elon's design philosophy was not one wasted gram or one wasted centimeter. The battery module met with Elon's enthusiastic approval. The problem is that same design philosophy makes parts very hard to manufacture in a high volume. Suffice to Elon's perfectionist nature made him choose poorly on design vs manufacturing tradeoffs

It's quite reminiscent of many of Steve Jobs decisions going back to the original Mac, the iMac and the iPhone, Apple often had trouble ramping up production of products to Jobs incessant on perfection. The difference is that Apple didn't accept pre-orders and take deposits on their products.

[NW-Bound]

In the article I cited earlier about the origin of Tesla, Inc., it was said that Musk design changes were the cause of the delay of the first Tesla Roadster that was produced by Lotus under contract. Musk and Jobs share the trait of being a perfectionist. And their products do attract fervent followers.

[swakyaby]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zathras On the lighter side of things, I pick mine up on Monday !!

Did you get your car? What do you think of it?

[Totoro]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NW-Bound In the article I cited earlier about the origin of Tesla, Inc., it was said that Musk design changes were the cause of the delay of the first Tesla Roadster that was produced by Lotus under contract. Musk and Jobs share the trait of being a perfectionist. And their products do attract fervent followers.

His ambition to only make a car that is better in every way and happens to be electric does shine through.

If only the interior finish wasn't so low quality (according to my brother) compared to german cars.

[Zathras]

Quote:

Originally Posted by swakyaby Did you get your car? What do you think of it?

I did!
I only have a few miles on the car. Hopefully I will have more today or tomorrow.

From first impressions, it exceeded my expectations.
The handling is much sportier and tighter. The car feels much more nimble.

In short, I would say less of a luxury feel, and more of a sportier feel.
I LOVE the sleek interior. Still getting used to the control screen, but I think I am going to like it a lot.

[6miths]

Thanks for first impressions. Sporty and nimble is what I am looking for so will continue to wait.

[GTFan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator It seems like an electric car would eliminate many issues that a gas or diesel engine would have, yet Musk cannot deliver. An electric car is a simple design, a glorified golf cart. Do not expect Tesla to be around in 5 years.

LOL, let us know when you can buy a golf cart with crumple zones, air bags etc. With ABS/TCS, driver aids and UI software, and a battery that has way more capacity for its size and weight. Built by the thousands in a completely automated factory.

Don't equate relative drivetrain simplicity with ease of design for a completely new way to mass-produce a car. Not excusing Musk for over-promising and under-delivering here, just recognizing that this is way more than glorified golf cart design and manufacturing.

[nash031]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerntz I think range & charge times are still hindrances for a good number of folks.

The range and charge of the Model S are fine by me.... it's the price tag! But for the 3, yes, that's why I am not considering it for my next vehicle next year.

[Bamaman]

Tesla has fallen on its face producing cars en mass. They just don't have the expertise.

0-60 mph in 4.3 seconds. Quarter mile in 13.4 seconds. Very fast for their economy model.

Too bad so many people are on the waiting list.

[Ready]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zathras I did! I only have a few miles on the car. Hopefully I will have more today or tomorrow. From first impressions, it exceeded my expectations. The handling is much sportier and tighter. The car feels much more nimble. In short, I would say less of a luxury feel, and more of a sportier feel. I LOVE the sleek interior. Still getting used to the control screen, but I think I am going to like it a lot.

Congratulations on the new car! Please keep us informed of your experience as you put more miles on it. I sat in a display model a couple of weeks ago for the first time. My first impression is that the car is fantastic as a $35K car, but for $54K I thought it seemed a little bit spartan inside. I'll be curious to see if you think it's worth the money, as I'll have to either pony up the $54K for first production or wait another year and miss the full federal tax credit.

[swakyaby]

Congrats, Zathras! What do you have set up for charging overnight?

[Chuckanut]

Here's another view of the Model 3:

https://electrek.co/2018/02/17/tesla...se-engineered/

Quote:

“Each sub-assembly system was put to the test, but the testers were especially impressed by the power electronics. Compact, expandable, fully integrated, modular, easily accessible, well-protected, reasonably priced and astonishingly clever in many details – that was the verdict of the experts, to which colleagues from other manufacturers also agreed.”

So now we await the opinion of Zanthras - our own local expert - to see if the Germans got it right. Not to put any pressure on the guy. After all he is having to much fun driving his new toy car around.

[W2R]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ready My first impression is that the car is fantastic as a $35K car, but for $54K I thought it seemed a little bit spartan inside.

I think that even a $35K car should not be spartan inside. A spartan interior sounds more like a $15K-$20K pricetag to me. Makes me wonder why they are being so cheap; surely it can't cost that much to upgrade the interior a bit. Or maybe my idea of a spartan interior is more bleak than what the Tesla 3 provides. Zathras said,

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zathras I LOVE the sleek interior.

[Chuckanut]

Another quote from the electrek article:

Quote:

“This minimalism runs through the entire vehicle. There is initially only one engine, only one forward and reverse gear, only one driven pair of wheels, only one cooling circuit for the entire system.”

[Zathras]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuckanut Here's another view of the Model 3: https://electrek.co/2018/02/17/tesla...se-engineered/ So now we await the opinion of Zanthras - our own local expert - to see if the Germans got it right. Not to put any pressure on the guy. After all he is having to much fun driving his new toy car around.

Nice review! I don’t know about the engineering side of things.
I can say the car handles much better, IMO, than the S or X. Those cars handled beautifully, for huge cars. The 3, being smaller, has an advantage there. I suspect they also focused more on it being a sportier car, rather than a touring car.
From what I have experienced in the first week, they got it right

Quote:

Originally Posted by W2R I think that even a $35K car should not be spartan inside. A spartan interior sounds more like a $15K-$20K pricetag to me. Makes me wonder why they are being so cheap; surely it can't cost that much to upgrade the interior a bit. Or maybe my idea of a spartan interior is more bleak than what the Tesla 3 provides. Zathras said,

I think what “Spartan” brings to your mind is not what the Model 3 actually offers.
I would suggest spartan does not equal cheap.

The interior materials are very nice. Wood and leather appearance and feel. Sound is the best I have heard in a very long time (please note, I am no audiophile). Fit and finish is beautiful.

There are some rough edges, in regards to software. Connection to wireless networks isn’t working yet. The ability to schedule the car charge was just added last week. Rear view camera is adequate, but is supposed to improve with a software update.

Navigation is wonderful! Screen is incredibly responsive. And I still absolutely love the handling and the ride. For me, the biggest advantage is the smaller size.