The Busy Ethic

[seabourne]

Haven't had the chance to read this paper, but sounds like it's right up our alley as far as "What will I do once I'm retired?"

The Busy Ethic: Moral Continuity Between Work and Retirement ? Gerontologist

 

[MasterBlaster]

Protestant Guilt Redux. The devil plays with idle minds. Purify yourself through the alter of work.

 

[seabourne]

I feel plenty purified already, TYVM. Can I be excused from work now?

 

[flyfishnevada]

Active and engaged is not busy and vice-versa. How many times in our w*rking lives were we busy, but not really accomplishing anything. How many times after ER have we been doing a dozen different things, but not really been busy. Busy involves deadlines and schedules. Retirement might be full and rich, but not busy.

I notice a lot of people confuse busy with staying active, continuing to learn, and remaining engaged in life and there is this new (new to me anyway) ethic emerging where retirement isn't about slowing down and smelling the roses, but about moving to Africa to build schools, or going back to college to get that teaching degree, or opening that bistro in Paris. Lots of financial planning companies ads show people doing that stuff. Not fishing, or painting watercolors, golfing or whatever.

It is my theory that there is a lot of money in getting people to keep their money tied up in 401ks and IRAs and paying fees to planners and brokerages and keeping people working instead of pursuing "leisure" activities. Hence those commercials, the news articles, the studies, etc.

Or am I just paranoid?

 

[frequenttraveler]

I notice a lot of people confuse busy with staying active, continuing to learn, and remaining engaged in life and there is this new (new to me anyway) ethic emerging where retirement isn't about slowing down and smelling the roses, but about moving to Africa to build schools, or going back to college to get that teaching degree, or opening that bistro in Paris. Lots of financial planning companies ads show people doing that stuff. Not fishing, or painting watercolors, golfing or whatever.


You stop, you die. I have a client who "retired", in the old fashioned sense, and started playing golf and traveling. His mind slowed down, his creativity disappeared and he began to suffer mentally and physically.

I want to "retire", but not like that! Helping others, interspersed with pursuing some leisure activities for sure, will keep us active and sharp. That's the ticket!

 

[obgyn65]

I guess in many people cases (including mine), continuing to learn, being engaged in research and staying on top of our fields is one of the reasons why we are always busy...

Active and engaged is not busy and vice-versa. (...) I notice a lot of people confuse busy with staying active, continuing to learn, and remaining engaged in life (...)

 

[Dawg52]

You stop, you die. I have a client who "retired", in the old fashioned sense, and started playing golf and traveling. His mind slowed down, his creativity disappeared and he began to suffer mentally and physically.

One of the boiler plate responses I got when I announced I was retiring. Ha! Did I ever get the last laugh.

 

[REWahoo]

Dawg, that photo is so wrong!

No way would that guy touch a grape...

 

[rescueme]

Dawg, that photo is so wrong!

No way would that guy touch a grape...

Exactly! I don't know where you got my picture but somebody photoshop'ed the grapes.

I wait till they are turned into wine

 

[flyfishnevada]

Dawg, that photo is so wrong!

No way would that guy touch a grape...

I think he is using the grapes to attract animals that he then devours whole.

 

[ziggy29]

Feh. This mentality feeds the "life is meaningless without w*rk" attitude as well as its corollary -- that retirement is a time when everyone just sits on their butts doing nothing all day. No thanks.

 

[MasterBlaster]

Feh. This mentality feeds the "life is meaningless without w*rk" attitude as well as its corollary -- that retirement is a time when everyone just sits on their butts doing nothing all day. No thanks.

Sour Grapes ?

 

[Nords]

This paper suggests that retirement is legitimated on a day-to-day basis in part by an ethic that esteems leisure that is earnest, active, and occupied. This busy ethic, named for the emphasis people place on keeping busy in retirement, endorses conduct that is consistent with the abstract ideals of the work ethic. The busy ethic justifies the leisure of retirement, defends retired people against judgments of senescence, and gives definition to the retirement role. In all, it helps individuals adapt to retirement, and it in turn adapts retirement to prevailing societal values.

"Legitimated"?!? Is that related to "legitimized" or "validated", or is it just their bastard step-child?

I'm having a hard time getting enthused about reading the rest of the prose.

Feh. This mentality feeds the "life is meaningless without w*rk" attitude as well as its corollary -- that retirement is a time when everyone just sits on their butts doing nothing all day. No thanks.

Frankly I could use a little help arranging more butt-sitting time into my days...

 

[ScottFromUtah]

You stop, you die. I have a client who "retired", in the old fashioned sense, and started playing golf and traveling. His mind slowed down, his creativity disappeared and he began to suffer mentally and physically.

My guess is that it's more the type of playing golf and traveling that cause people's minds and bodies to die. My wife and I love to travel, but we read lots about the locations, cultures, and languages before and after we go. We take our photography very seriously, and write personal photographic travel books about our adventures.

My FIL played golf for many years, and it was so good for him physically--until he started renting a cart. Bad move. He died of a heart attack a few years later at the young age of 71. I personally prefer running and triathlon (I did a half marathon yesterday) and weight lifting, but just plain walking works wonders.

As much as people on this forum joke about doing nothing, I think almost everyone here stays engaged in an active and full life.

Why retire early if you do nothing and die young?

 

[audreyh1]

I think it's simply the passive versus active retirement. A lot of (usually working) people seem to believe that retirement = passive. Sitting around, or going on activities where you are led around by the nose, watching TV, no longer learning anything new, etc. Sure - this kind of lifestyle seems unhealthy after you have taken a much needed rest from decades of work.

But a lot of folks retire early specifically so they can enjoy an active and healthy retirement, learn new things, explore places, do all sorts of things they didn't have time to do while working. And to do this while they still have their health.

I think it's the folks who don't know what to do with themselves, who assume they are supposed to do nothing, or wait around for something to "happen", who get depressed and/or die early. These are the folks who have really "stopped".

But just because you "slow down" from a hectic, stressful work life, doesn't mean you have "stopped" either. There is a balance here!

Audrey

 

[growing_older]

Interestingly I have found at work that the busiest times are not the most productive. Yes, a lot of mindless repetitive stuff gets done, but the most productive times have been when there is a little breathing room to try new solutions and invent new more efficient ways to address problems. I have been assuming that should be similar in ER.

 

[Kroeran]

busy-ness can also be intensity

some minds are more in equilibrium with 3 balls in the air at a time

 

[ScottFromUtah]

I think it's the folks who don't know what to do with themselves, who assume they are supposed to do nothing, or wait around for something to "happen", who get depressed and/or die early. These are the folks who have really "stopped".

Well said. I have a friend who "retired early" because of a company downsize. He really doesn't know what to do with himself. He's the kind of person I'm worried about. Please who plan to FIRE seem to know exactly what to do when they retire--yes, sit around and relax, but also stay active physically and mentally.

 

[martyp]

As I approach my retirement date in December I am looking forward to about 6 months of decompression. After that I am looking for active and healthy but I will be "working" for myself and defining my own time.

 

[harley]

You stop, you die. I have a client who "retired", in the old fashioned sense, and started playing golf and traveling. His mind slowed down, his creativity disappeared and he began to suffer mentally and physically.

I want to "retire", but not like that! Helping others, interspersed with pursuing some leisure activities for sure, will keep us active and sharp. That's the ticket!

I can guarantee you I know a lot more people who died due to work than to leisure. And I know some people who volunteer a lot, and the stress of dealing with the bureaucracy and lack of progress is significantly more incapacitating than the "stress" of golfing and travel. I'm all in favor of you doing what you want, but don't see anything to say your choice is better than your client's. Generalization by anecdote is less than compelling. For proof, see comment above.

 

[REWahoo]

You stop, you die.

Depends on what you are stopping.

If it's eating and drinking, I think your statement is accurate. If it's working in a high stress job - or even a low stress mind-numbing one - then your statement could be 180 degrees from reality.

Everyone is different and you cannot paint an accurate picture of retirement citing an example of one individual. What floats your boat might make me seasick - and vice versa.

 

[ScottFromUtah]

I can guarantee you I know a lot more people who died due to work than to leisure. ... Generalization by anecdote is less than compelling. For proof, see comment above.