Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
The Busy Ethic
Old 09-16-2010, 04:37 PM   #1
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 196
The Busy Ethic

Haven't had the chance to read this paper, but sounds like it's right up our alley as far as "What will I do once I'm retired?"

The Busy Ethic: Moral Continuity Between Work and Retirement ? Gerontologist
__________________

__________________
seabourne is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 09-16-2010, 04:47 PM   #2
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
MasterBlaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,359
Protestant Guilt Redux. The devil plays with idle minds. Purify yourself through the alter of work.
__________________

__________________
MasterBlaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2010, 04:59 PM   #3
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 196
I feel plenty purified already, TYVM. Can I be excused from work now?
__________________
seabourne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2010, 11:12 PM   #4
Full time employment: Posting here.
flyfishnevada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Smith
Posts: 743
Active and engaged is not busy and vice-versa. How many times in our w*rking lives were we busy, but not really accomplishing anything. How many times after ER have we been doing a dozen different things, but not really been busy. Busy involves deadlines and schedules. Retirement might be full and rich, but not busy.

I notice a lot of people confuse busy with staying active, continuing to learn, and remaining engaged in life and there is this new (new to me anyway) ethic emerging where retirement isn't about slowing down and smelling the roses, but about moving to Africa to build schools, or going back to college to get that teaching degree, or opening that bistro in Paris. Lots of financial planning companies ads show people doing that stuff. Not fishing, or painting watercolors, golfing or whatever.

It is my theory that there is a lot of money in getting people to keep their money tied up in 401ks and IRAs and paying fees to planners and brokerages and keeping people working instead of pursuing "leisure" activities. Hence those commercials, the news articles, the studies, etc.

Or am I just paranoid?

__________________
Retired July 4th, 2010 at age 43
Trout Bum, Writer, Full-Time Dad and Husband


flyfishnevada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2010, 03:57 AM   #5
Dryer sheet wannabe
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 20
[QUOTE=flyfishnevada;978825]
I notice a lot of people confuse busy with staying active, continuing to learn, and remaining engaged in life and there is this new (new to me anyway) ethic emerging where retirement isn't about slowing down and smelling the roses, but about moving to Africa to build schools, or going back to college to get that teaching degree, or opening that bistro in Paris. Lots of financial planning companies ads show people doing that stuff. Not fishing, or painting watercolors, golfing or whatever.


You stop, you die. I have a client who "retired", in the old fashioned sense, and started playing golf and traveling. His mind slowed down, his creativity disappeared and he began to suffer mentally and physically.

I want to "retire", but not like that! Helping others, interspersed with pursuing some leisure activities for sure, will keep us active and sharp. That's the ticket!
__________________
frequenttraveler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2010, 04:06 AM   #6
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
obgyn65's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: midwestern city
Posts: 4,061
I guess in many people cases (including mine), continuing to learn, being engaged in research and staying on top of our fields is one of the reasons why we are always busy...


Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfishnevada View Post
Active and engaged is not busy and vice-versa. (...) I notice a lot of people confuse busy with staying active, continuing to learn, and remaining engaged in life (...)
__________________
Very conservative with investments. Not ER'd yet, 48 years old. Please do not take anything I write or imply as legal, financial or medical advice directed to you. Contact your own financial advisor, healthcare provider, or attorney for financial, medical and legal advice.
obgyn65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2010, 07:30 AM   #7
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
Dawg52's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Central MS/Orange Beach, AL
Posts: 7,446
[QUOTE=frequenttraveler;978848]
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfishnevada View Post


You stop, you die. I have a client who "retired", in the old fashioned sense, and started playing golf and traveling. His mind slowed down, his creativity disappeared and he began to suffer mentally and physically.
One of the boiler plate responses I got when I announced I was retiring. Ha! Did I ever get the last laugh.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 22-old-fat-cb.jpg (118.0 KB, 13 views)
__________________
Retired 3/31/2007@52
Full time wuss.......
Dawg52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2010, 07:45 AM   #8
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
REWahoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 42,149
Dawg, that photo is so wrong!

No way would that guy touch a grape...
__________________
Numbers is hard

When I hit 70, it hit back

Retired in 2005 at age 58, no pension
REWahoo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2010, 07:49 AM   #9
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 3,851
Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo View Post
Dawg, that photo is so wrong!

No way would that guy touch a grape...
Exactly! I don't know where you got my picture but somebody photoshop'ed the grapes.

I wait till they are turned into wine
__________________
rescueme is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2010, 02:52 PM   #10
Full time employment: Posting here.
flyfishnevada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Smith
Posts: 743
Quote:
Originally Posted by REWahoo View Post
Dawg, that photo is so wrong!

No way would that guy touch a grape...
I think he is using the grapes to attract animals that he then devours whole.
__________________
Retired July 4th, 2010 at age 43
Trout Bum, Writer, Full-Time Dad and Husband


flyfishnevada is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2010, 02:54 PM   #11
Moderator
ziggy29's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 15,613
Feh. This mentality feeds the "life is meaningless without w*rk" attitude as well as its corollary -- that retirement is a time when everyone just sits on their butts doing nothing all day. No thanks.
__________________
"Hey, for every ten dollars, that's another hour that I have to be in the work place. That's an hour of my life. And my life is a very finite thing. I have only 'x' number of hours left before I'm dead. So how do I want to use these hours of my life? Do I want to use them just spending it on more crap and more stuff, or do I want to start getting a handle on it and using my life more intelligently?" -- Joe Dominguez (1938 - 1997)

RIP to Reemy, my avatar dog (2003 - 9/16/2017)
ziggy29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-17-2010, 03:29 PM   #12
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
MasterBlaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,359
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
Feh. This mentality feeds the "life is meaningless without w*rk" attitude as well as its corollary -- that retirement is a time when everyone just sits on their butts doing nothing all day. No thanks.
Sour Grapes ?
__________________
MasterBlaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-18-2010, 01:15 AM   #13
Moderator Emeritus
Nords's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Oahu
Posts: 26,620
Quote:
This paper suggests that retirement is legitimated on a day-to-day basis in part by an ethic that esteems leisure that is earnest, active, and occupied. This busy ethic, named for the emphasis people place on keeping busy in retirement, endorses conduct that is consistent with the abstract ideals of the work ethic. The busy ethic justifies the leisure of retirement, defends retired people against judgments of senescence, and gives definition to the retirement role. In all, it helps individuals adapt to retirement, and it in turn adapts retirement to prevailing societal values.
"Legitimated"?!? Is that related to "legitimized" or "validated", or is it just their bastard step-child?

I'm having a hard time getting enthused about reading the rest of the prose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggy29 View Post
Feh. This mentality feeds the "life is meaningless without w*rk" attitude as well as its corollary -- that retirement is a time when everyone just sits on their butts doing nothing all day. No thanks.
Frankly I could use a little help arranging more butt-sitting time into my days...
__________________
*
*

The book written on E-R.org, "The Military Guide to Financial Independence and Retirement", on sale now! For more info see "About Me" in my profile.
I don't spend much time here anymore, so please send me a PM. Thanks.
Nords is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2010, 01:23 PM   #14
Recycles dryer sheets
ScottFromUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Orem/Provo
Posts: 231
[QUOTE=frequenttraveler;978848]
Quote:
Originally Posted by flyfishnevada View Post
You stop, you die. I have a client who "retired", in the old fashioned sense, and started playing golf and traveling. His mind slowed down, his creativity disappeared and he began to suffer mentally and physically.
My guess is that it's more the type of playing golf and traveling that cause people's minds and bodies to die. My wife and I love to travel, but we read lots about the locations, cultures, and languages before and after we go. We take our photography very seriously, and write personal photographic travel books about our adventures.

My FIL played golf for many years, and it was so good for him physically--until he started renting a cart. Bad move. He died of a heart attack a few years later at the young age of 71. I personally prefer running and triathlon (I did a half marathon yesterday) and weight lifting, but just plain walking works wonders.

As much as people on this forum joke about doing nothing, I think almost everyone here stays engaged in an active and full life.

Why retire early if you do nothing and die young?
__________________
ScottFromUtah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2010, 02:25 PM   #15
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
audreyh1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Rio Grande Valley
Posts: 16,536
I think it's simply the passive versus active retirement. A lot of (usually working) people seem to believe that retirement = passive. Sitting around, or going on activities where you are led around by the nose, watching TV, no longer learning anything new, etc. Sure - this kind of lifestyle seems unhealthy after you have taken a much needed rest from decades of work.

But a lot of folks retire early specifically so they can enjoy an active and healthy retirement, learn new things, explore places, do all sorts of things they didn't have time to do while working. And to do this while they still have their health.

I think it's the folks who don't know what to do with themselves, who assume they are supposed to do nothing, or wait around for something to "happen", who get depressed and/or die early. These are the folks who have really "stopped".

But just because you "slow down" from a hectic, stressful work life, doesn't mean you have "stopped" either. There is a balance here!

Audrey
__________________
Well, I thought I was retired. But it seems that now I'm working as a travel agent instead!
audreyh1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2010, 03:43 PM   #16
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
growing_older's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,609
Interestingly I have found at work that the busiest times are not the most productive. Yes, a lot of mindless repetitive stuff gets done, but the most productive times have been when there is a little breathing room to try new solutions and invent new more efficient ways to address problems. I have been assuming that should be similar in ER.
__________________
growing_older is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2010, 05:16 PM   #17
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Ottawa and Fort Myers
Posts: 488
busy-ness can also be intensity

some minds are more in equilibrium with 3 balls in the air at a time
__________________
Kroeran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-19-2010, 07:43 PM   #18
Recycles dryer sheets
ScottFromUtah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Orem/Provo
Posts: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by audreyh1 View Post
I think it's the folks who don't know what to do with themselves, who assume they are supposed to do nothing, or wait around for something to "happen", who get depressed and/or die early. These are the folks who have really "stopped".
Well said. I have a friend who "retired early" because of a company downsize. He really doesn't know what to do with himself. He's the kind of person I'm worried about. Please who plan to FIRE seem to know exactly what to do when they retire--yes, sit around and relax, but also stay active physically and mentally.
__________________
ScottFromUtah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2010, 09:12 AM   #19
Full time employment: Posting here.
martyp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Bangkok
Posts: 963
As I approach my retirement date in December I am looking forward to about 6 months of decompression. After that I am looking for active and healthy but I will be "working" for myself and defining my own time.
__________________
martyp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2010, 09:47 AM   #20
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
harley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Following the nice weather
Posts: 6,441
Quote:
Originally Posted by frequenttraveler View Post
You stop, you die. I have a client who "retired", in the old fashioned sense, and started playing golf and traveling. His mind slowed down, his creativity disappeared and he began to suffer mentally and physically.

I want to "retire", but not like that! Helping others, interspersed with pursuing some leisure activities for sure, will keep us active and sharp. That's the ticket!
I can guarantee you I know a lot more people who died due to work than to leisure. And I know some people who volunteer a lot, and the stress of dealing with the bureaucracy and lack of progress is significantly more incapacitating than the "stress" of golfing and travel. I'm all in favor of you doing what you want, but don't see anything to say your choice is better than your client's. Generalization by anecdote is less than compelling. For proof, see comment above.
__________________

__________________
"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." - Will Rogers, or maybe Sam Clemens
DW and I - FIREd at 50 (7/06), living off assets
harley is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Busy retirees can still feel empty and miss their jobs W2R Life after FIRE 94 06-25-2009 07:10 AM
A really busy week -- laid off, catheterization and then off to Hawaii dwk FIRE and Money 6 01-23-2007 11:47 AM
Been busy starting the new business to help with ER....its going well thefed FIRE and Money 7 12-17-2005 05:14 PM
The American Work Ethic wabmester Young Dreamers 9 08-16-2004 08:33 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:25 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.