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Old 08-19-2016, 01:21 PM   #121
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I used to travel with German suppliers within the US and one day we were late and did curbside check in. Guess whose bags didn't make it.
I usually give those guys $5 a bag, minimum - cheap travel insurance, especially when one of the bags contains golf clubs
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Old 08-19-2016, 01:27 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by Music Lover View Post
The US has a lot of restaurants that "forget" to pay servers living wage like most other countries do...one can't expect the entire world to be aware of this.
My comment was in reply to the poster who observed that in Miami a tip was added to the bill regardless of size. Sorry I didn't make that clear.

Having lived in Europe for many years, I'm quite sure that most Europeans are not only aware of the tipping situation but know a whole lot more about our country in general than many of us.

"Forgetting" the policy is another matter!
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Old 08-19-2016, 01:31 PM   #123
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I usually give those guys $5 a bag, minimum - cheap travel insurance, especially when one of the bags contains golf clubs
Always keep the people who handle your bags and prepare your food happy.
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Old 08-19-2016, 01:37 PM   #124
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In Europe, we would ask the server to include our tip before entering the amount in the tableside machine. They would always thanks us.
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Old 08-19-2016, 01:44 PM   #125
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In Europe, we would ask the server to include our tip before entering the amount in the tableside machine. They would always thanks us.
I'm sure they thanked you profusely!
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Old 08-19-2016, 02:25 PM   #126
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I don't really give a crap about the waitstaff. If they have an issue with their compensation, then they, like most, will probably move on to pursue more rewarding endeavors. Or possibly suggest to their employer that the pay structure reliant on tips is adequate. Not really my business (it's literally their business and the restaurant's business).

That's not saying I wish them ill, it's just that they aren't a strong consideration when I leave a tip. I can't recall punishing bad service with a bad tip in my adult life, and can't recall receiving such exceptional service that I felt like tipping more than custom demands.

To me, custom demands 15%. I'm usually not thinking too hard about the tax so I tip based on the after tax amount. Tax here is 7.75% on restaurants, so I'm tipping an effective ~16% (but I get water, so maybe I'm tipping 14% if you include a phantom value for my imputed beverage utility - sooooo complicated!!). Recently on a 2 week vacation in Toronto, I noticed tax is 13% so I ended up tipping 17%. Lucky folks there - they squeezed an extra loonie or toonie out of me.

I'll also note that we rarely dine out, and as often as not we get take out or dine at places with counter service that don't require tip (fast casual, fast food, buffets without waitstaff).
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Old 08-19-2016, 03:14 PM   #127
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But if the country went to a full no tipping format, we'll be paying for service we may or may not get anyway.

Let's face it, we're going to pay one way or the other.
I agree. But isn't that the case with almost every other business anyway? Either the staff gives you satisfactory service or they don't. And if they don't, you go to the manager. Why should this one industry be any different?
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Old 08-19-2016, 03:19 PM   #128
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To me, custom demands 15%. I'm usually not thinking too hard about the tax so I tip based on the after tax amount. Tax here is 7.75% on restaurants, so I'm tipping an effective ~16% (but I get water, so maybe I'm tipping 14% if you include a phantom value for my imputed beverage utility - sooooo complicated!!). Recently on a 2 week vacation in Toronto, I noticed tax is 13% so I ended up tipping 17%. Lucky folks there - they squeezed an extra loonie or toonie out of me.
The thing is, the "hourly wage" the waitstaff gets hasn't been adjusted for inflation since forever. In many states I think it's something like $2.15 per hour. So even with inflation on the menu, $2.15 per hour plus 15% a decade ago lags behind $2.15 per hour plus 15% today.

I would much rather see the staff get paid a dignified wage by their employer and relieve the customer the obligation of considering the tipping game. But unless that happens, 15% today is not the same as 15% 5-10 years ago in terms of total compensation, since the base rate they are paid hasn't been moved in a long time.

I see no justification for paying any legitimate worker less than the minimum wage. Do you?
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Old 08-19-2016, 03:20 PM   #129
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I agree. But isn't that the case with almost every other business anyway? Either the staff gives you satisfactory service or they don't. And if they don't, you go to the manager. Why should this one industry be any different?
it's not one industry, I tip

bag guy at the club
curb check guys at the airport
bag guys at the hotel
doorman at hotel (sometimes)
cab drivers
movers
barbers
the guy that cooks my food at the mongolian place

there are lots of people that get tipped
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Old 08-19-2016, 03:23 PM   #130
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it's not one industry, I tip

bag guy at the club
curb check guys at the airport
bag guys at the hotel
doorman at hotel (sometimes)
cab drivers
movers
barbers
the guy that cooks my food at the mongolian place

there are lots of people that get tipped
Fair enough. But it is the 800-pound gorilla in the room. The point remains, if they were paid a decent wage to begin with, no one would need to tip them; it would be optional, not a social requirement.
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Old 08-19-2016, 03:27 PM   #131
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crap I forgot the beverage cart person - she gets tipped too, sometimes
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Old 08-19-2016, 03:31 PM   #132
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Usually at the zoo they say don't feed the animals so I never tip the gorilla.
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Old 08-19-2016, 04:34 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by travelover View Post
I was surprised at the support for tipping from servers on a recent call in show. They seemed to think a straight wage would be an automatic pay cut.
I see 2 reasons:
- Since in reality a significant part of tips is tax free income, a salary of the same amount would be fully taxed and therefore less in the pocket.

- As examples given above with tips a person can earn $25/hr, what employer is going to pay someone that much when they can get folks to line up for $15-$17/hr, since the skill level is: read & write a bit, and don't trip while carrying food, and don't drool..
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Old 08-19-2016, 04:40 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by FUEGO View Post
.....
To me, custom demands 15%. I'm usually not thinking too hard about the tax so I tip based on the after tax amount. Tax here is 7.75% on restaurants, so I'm tipping an effective ~16% (but I get water, so maybe I'm tipping 14% if you include a phantom value for my imputed beverage utility - sooooo complicated!!). Recently on a 2 week vacation in Toronto, I noticed tax is 13% so I ended up tipping 17%. Lucky folks there - they squeezed an extra loonie or toonie out of me.
.....
Since in Ontario the minimum wage is: 11.25 / hr. for waitress, same as for the ditch digger outside, I'll bet they LOVED that extra 13% tip.

ps - did you tip all the other minimum wage workers in Ontario as well ?
That is part of the issue with tipping.
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Old 08-19-2016, 05:09 PM   #135
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The thing is, the "hourly wage" the waitstaff gets hasn't been adjusted for inflation since forever. In many states I think it's something like $2.15 per hour. So even with inflation on the menu, $2.15 per hour plus 15% a decade ago lags behind $2.15 per hour plus 15% today.
True, but the total bill has gone up which makes up a lot of the difference.

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I see no justification for paying any legitimate worker less than the minimum wage. Do you?
I agree.
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Old 08-19-2016, 05:21 PM   #136
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I've seen this more and more, and now I look for it (at expensive places anyway) before I sit down, and I will not eat at a place that does this. It is highly presumptive, it assumes that you will get good, if not very good service (my def of 18% tip) before you even sit down. I have gotten up from a table and left after being handed a menu and reading that at the bottom.

And this past March spent a few days in Miami and was surprised to find almost every place we went did this, for any size party.

I certainly can't say this is true for every restaurant, but the two restaurants I served at both said this on the menu and never enforced it. At most restaurants all you have to do is say "I'd rather choose my own tip amount" and they will take it off the bill (or not add it if you say something before they print the bill).

One of the restaurants I worked at listed that rule on the menu, but as a server I was almost never allowed to actually add the automatic gratuity. We had to specially request permission to do so from the owner, and then only when we had evidence that they wouldn't likely tip (i.e., repeat customers with a history of not tipping). In two years working there I was only allowed to add an automatic gratuity three times.

Something to keep in mind the next time you see that. Honestly, just ask - much better for everyone because you get to eat where you want and they keep the customer.
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Old 08-19-2016, 05:32 PM   #137
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I go 20% on the whole check and round up. Cash.

I'm a regular at the places I frequent and they just love me. Take good care of me too.

There are lots of other places I've been to once. Yup, I don't complain to the management I just never ever go there again.
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Old 08-19-2016, 06:31 PM   #138
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Since in Ontario the minimum wage is: 11.25 / hr. for waitress, same as for the ditch digger outside, I'll bet they LOVED that extra 13% tip.

ps - did you tip all the other minimum wage workers in Ontario as well ?
That is part of the issue with tipping.
Is tipping not customarily 15% in Ontario? I think I googled it beforehand and Canadian tipping guidelines for restaurants were roughly what it is in the US Maybe it was 15-18% there, while I've seen 18-20% suggested here in the US (though the autocalculate receipts usually have a 15%, 18%, and 20% autocalculate on the receipt).
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Old 08-19-2016, 06:40 PM   #139
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I see no justification for paying any legitimate worker less than the minimum wage. Do you?
I go to restaurants to eat food and have a good time with family and friends. Big picture stuff like minimum wage policy or deciding what is "fair" compensation for an employee just don't cross my mind when I'm busy eating, relaxing, and having a good time. If I wanted to deal financial policies, compensation, fairness, managing a workforce, etc., I'd probably go back to full time work. Until then, I'll keep eating at the occasional restaurant with waitstaff and keep leaving 15% (or is it 16% since I usually tip on the tax?).

I figure employees would care enough about those issues to take care of themselves and their own interests.
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Old 08-20-2016, 05:58 AM   #140
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