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Old 03-16-2014, 07:32 AM   #621
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i have to tell you , i was going to do that and not buy the su-800. others told me buy it , you will regret not getting it if you ever got to try one.

they were right. not only does the su-800 let you gain access to the adjustments without going through menus but the su-800 lets you control lighting ratio.

i can have one flash up to 8x as bright as the other at the subject.

that is different from your typical adjustment which lets you have one flash 8x as bright at the flashes output. that does not mean it is 8x as bright at the subject.

i usually use a ratio of 2:! or 3:! to keep the light from being to flat and boring.
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Old 03-16-2014, 07:39 AM   #622
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I bought the Nikon R1 flash kit last spring using the pop-up flash on the D7000 for the commander, really like that. Lens is the 85mm DX macro. The 200mm macro is on my "wish list". The first two were taken in daylight and I used the flash to kill the ambient. 1/250 sec. @f/25 on those.
one thing you may want to watch is those whites as they are blowing out on you.. i find the histogram a very important tool when shooting whites and reds as they both blow out easy.

reds especially blow out with little indication in a histogram unless it displays individual color channels.

what you end up with is whites that look like vanilla ice cream with no details and reds that look like smooth tomato skins.

one of the reasons that you want software that allows you to adjust things locally in small areas is you really have to shoot reds and whites darker so they stay preserved. then in post processing you can bring the other areas up to full brightness again.

lightroom is good at that , you can brush exposure in wherever you need it later on.
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Old 03-16-2014, 07:52 AM   #623
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That's the thing - they are not blown out on the display here in LR but when uploaded here they are. Same display, same settings, etc. but the same .jpg looks fine on screen here. Maybe vbBulletin does something to the image?

Here's the histogram for the flower image. It should not be displayed with blown-out whites.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg histogram.JPG (12.9 KB, 113 views)
File Type: jpg macro-4.jpg (71.8 KB, 10 views)
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Old 03-16-2014, 07:55 AM   #624
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wow that is crazy... are you converting to srgb before posting? lightroom is in pro-rgb. i think your color space is wrong. i will try uploading a photo with white.

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Old 03-16-2014, 07:58 AM   #625
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I underexposed one stop, that's closer to what it should look like, maybe 1/3 or 1/2 higher would display right.

Weird.
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File Type: jpg Underexposed-1.jpg (65.7 KB, 8 views)
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Old 03-16-2014, 07:58 AM   #626
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it is fine, so there is a color space issue i think going on with the first batch .

i always convert everything for posting from lightroom to a seperate file and convert to srgb and then post. your first batch posted all blown out. thats wierd unless it is a color space issue. your histogram looks fine.
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Old 03-16-2014, 08:03 AM   #627
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[QUOTE=mathjak107;1427553]here are a few flower shots, i like flower guts.... marilyn is more a capture the entire flower kind of photographer but i like the inner world of flower guts.





Very nice shots
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Old 03-16-2014, 08:05 AM   #628
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thank you.
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Old 03-16-2014, 08:07 AM   #629
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I process in pro-rgb but export to sRGB before uploading. I'll have to dig into the manuals a bit on the color space issue.

But if the color space was the issue wouldn't it also show up on the display here? Now I'm gonna spend the next two days figuring out what's going on with this!
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Old 03-16-2014, 08:10 AM   #630
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that last one you posted was fine so i can't really say what went on with your first batch.

you certainly are doing it right if you are converting from pr0-rgb to srgb for posting. so i am out of ideas.
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Old 03-16-2014, 08:13 AM   #631
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I process in pro-rgb but export to sRGB before uploading. I'll have to dig into the manuals a bit on the color space issue.

But if the color space was the issue wouldn't it also show up on the display here? Now I'm gonna spend the next two days figuring out what's going on with this!
if you want to e-mail the origonal file i will help you trouble shoot
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Old 03-16-2014, 08:43 AM   #632
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being marilyn and i are very passionate about our photography i wrote a few tutorials for some forums i frequent so i thought they may help here too.

i just realized we even had this forum here today.

learning to take control of the scene is an important part of photography.

most of the photos done by beginners that we see are like a cork floating in water. where ever the photo floats to become that day is where it ends up.

usually if its a nice sunny day it ends up ending poorly as your subject to the luck of the lighting at the scene . why ? because there is no setting on your camera that can capture the range from dark to light without crushing or blowing out details and colors unless the light that day cooperates..


when shooting flowers and macro its usually a little easier to take control of things yourself because its a smaller set of conditions to deal with.

so how do we control the scene?

my learning to shoot with the camera in manual and by bringing our own sun ,the flash.

this is how i do it. ill break it up over a few replys
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Old 03-16-2014, 08:44 AM   #633
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a camera left on program setting or automatic will strive to average everything it exposes to a middle gray color. it will automatically take whites and darken them to ligh gray.

look at shots beginners take of snow, its gray.

blacks will be rendered dark gray.

because of that the camera will never ever by itself capture the scene you see.

the first thing we want to do is stop the camera doing that, we want to control our own exposures.

that next thing we want to do is control the sun.

we control the sun by bringing our flash and by overiding the cameras exoposure system , that way we can stop the sun from being the dominant light and being held captive to it.

so lets put the cameras in manual and put our external flashes on the camera and lets start controlling our photos the way we want them
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Old 03-16-2014, 08:45 AM   #634
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im not familiar with cannons system so im going to refer to nikons system which i know, you cannon users can tell us if in ttl the camera maintains 2 seperate systems or is more like nikons TTL-BL mode which communicates with each other.

nikon TTL- no talking between camera and flash

TTL-BL lots of talking and inter acting.

we want TTL mode on the flash- no talking.


there are two seperate exposure systems in ttl mode ,your camera and your flash. in nikon ttl mode they dont talk much to each other. you have 2 seperate exposure systems that can be set independently, the camera and the flash.

you really need a seperate flash as the one on camera will not let you take control . the built in pop up one is TTL-BL only and wont let you really break things up into 2 seperate exposure systems.

the external flashes have choices so you can select TTL ot TTL-FP ,just dont pick TTL-BL

the problem with the one built in to your camera is that one talks to much and does talk to the camera. so you really do need a good seperate flash unit. we dont want the camera and flash talking much in our macro work.


the flash and the camera really act as 2 seperate systems each capable of exposing a photo on its own.

so lets see how we get rid of the sun and control our own light even in broad daylight.

put the camera in manual mode.

set iso to 400

put the flash on the camera but leave the flash off for now.

set your speed around 1/160 to 1/200

set your aperture anywhere from f/16 to f/25 or higher .

get close to your flower and click off a shot. get the background as dark or as light as you like by adjusting the aperture. we are only setting the look of the background now, the flash once we turn it on will control the flower exposure.

you can get the background setting for your flower as bright as you like or as dark as you like, even pure black at this point just by working the aperture.

we are using the camera to set the exposure for the background for our flower.

at this point with the flash off we can barely see our subject at all or perhaps not at all if you want a black background for your flower.


our goal is to have the camera expose the background the way we want and the flash will control the exposure on the subject seperatly.

your camera if left in the auto or program mode can never ever achieve this seperation of the two.
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Old 03-16-2014, 08:45 AM   #635
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we are now using the camera to set exposure for the background and we will now see how to make our flash the dominant source of light for the subject and not the sun .

turn the flash on.


we will now use the flash to set exposure for our subject.

on the back of your flash turn it down to -1.

take a test shot.... if the subject flower on the histogram is blowing out make the aperture smaller on the camera.

if the subject is to dark open the aperture wider.


once you get the subject in a good exposure range you can play with the setting on the back of the flash to walk in the exposure and look just to where you want it.

the flash is also so fast it can be 10x the speed of your camera and now has the benefit of stopping action.

catching bugs in flight or blowing flowers is childs play with the flash being the dominant light.


go try it and report back.

i bet you will all be surprised how easy it is to control the scene now for your flower and bug shooting.
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Old 03-16-2014, 09:03 AM   #636
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That's the thing - they are not blown out on the display here in LR but when uploaded here they are. Same display, same settings, etc. but the same .jpg looks fine on screen here. Maybe vbBulletin does something to the image?

Here's the histogram for the flower image. It should not be displayed with blown-out whites.
here is what i found. the file is glitched. i could not open it. somehow it is flagged as a nikon capture nx2 file but the file name is not an nef but a dng.

i could not open it with either capture nx2 or lightroom.

i ended up putting it on a memory card and bringing it in to lightroom from scratch re-importing it.

it opened fine and as you see i re-exported it and it is fine. see below



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Old 03-16-2014, 09:36 AM   #637
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Wow! Great shots.


Here's one from the Luke Air Force Base airshow yesterdayImageUploadedByEarly Retirement Forum1394980574.314238.jpg
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Old 03-16-2014, 10:47 AM   #638
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some landscapes, with my own spin using different textures




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Old 03-16-2014, 11:04 AM   #639
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Nice shots lately. Keep 'em coming, folks.
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Old 03-16-2014, 11:08 AM   #640
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That's the thing - they are not blown out on the display here in LR but when uploaded here they are. Same display, same settings, etc. but the same .jpg looks fine on screen here. Maybe vbBulletin does something to the image?

Here's the histogram for the flower image. It should not be displayed with blown-out whites.
This is something I have noticed too with my pics. When I upload them to the forum, the previews look washed out, though the full-size images are fine. I believe this is related to the forum's software. Incidentally, it looks like it started occurring when we migrated to new servers a few weeks ago.
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