Join Early Retirement Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 02-05-2016, 08:56 AM   #221
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Alberta/Ontario/ Arizona
Posts: 3,139
Quote:
Originally Posted by athena53 View Post
"If the person can afford it" is the key here. People who own a few dozen Coach bags, buy diamond collars for their Chihuahuas and eat out every night are good for the economy. There's a segment of that group, though, whose long-term care insurance plan is "spend everything and Medicaid will pay for my nursing home" and who will be reliant before then on subsidized housing, Meals on Wheels, etc. when they could have saved. If you spent your whole life working minimum-wage jobs and raising 4 kids, well, you probably couldn't put much aside. If you bought a new SUV every 3 years and took Mediterranean cruises for your vacation and expect the taxpayers to subsidize your retirement, IMO that's just plain wrong.
Right, but this thread started out discussing a $21 meal. The examples you cite are obvious examples that we can all agree with. There are many of these we see in everyday life.

I was thinking more along the lines of personal tastes ie type of car we buy, clothing, type and frequency of travel, which would not necessarily be too expensive for a relatively well off person. Basically questions of taste within an affordability constraint. Also, in many cases affordability is a matter of opinion. For example is someone who uses and spends an SWR of 5% a spendthrift? Even if it is all on designer bags?

As far as subsidizing someone else's retirement. This is a bit of a hornets nest. Everyone who gets SS or Medicaid is being subsidized to some degree, no? Not being American I should probably pass on this part.
__________________

__________________
Danmar is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 Early Retirement and Financial Independence Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

Are you planning to be financially independent as early as possible so you can live life on your own terms? Discuss successful investing strategies, asset allocation models, tax strategies and other related topics in our online forum community. Our members range from young folks just starting their journey to financial independence, military retirees and even multimillionaires. No matter where you fit in you'll find that Early-Retirement.org is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with our members, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create a retirement blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 02-05-2016, 09:47 AM   #222
Recycles dryer sheets
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 486
Quote:
Originally Posted by urn2bfree View Post
How about her completely unsubstantiated belief that "organic" is healthier?

"Organic" means more expensive. I am shocked how many people have swallowed the notion that it means healthier. This seems to be nothing but marketing, plain and simple.
For those who disagree, don't tell me about your "belief" or your anecdote about how "organic" cured your (eczema, arthritis, irritable bowel, energy level, etc.) or list some litany of the evils of non-organic food. Just show me some actual evidence.



Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum
While there are many "organic" foods which don't really add value.. many things can be made healthier by proper washing, dissolving the wax on foods where pesticides are sealed inside (especially apples).. there are a few foods like strawberries, I'd never eat without buying from a local farm where I knew what was on them...What’s On My Food :: Pesticides on Strawberries . We don't buy anything with colored dye in it...there are mixed studies about its impact on Hyperactivity for children with ADHD.. considering the ADD drug comes to about $7.50/day, paying a few dollars more for dye free food seems cost effective, it doesn't eliminate the need for the drug but it does seem to allow us to skip 1-2 days a week, evidence is difficult because there are so many factors at play but living with someone for years.. you know.
__________________

__________________
karen1972 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2016, 10:34 AM   #223
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
timo2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Rio Rancho
Posts: 1,438
Quote:
Originally Posted by urn2bfree View Post
How about her completely unsubstantiated belief that "organic" is healthier?

"Organic" means more expensive. I am shocked how many people have swallowed the notion that it means healthier. This seems to be nothing but marketing, plain and simple.
For those who disagree, don't tell me about your "belief" or your anecdote about how "organic" cured your (eczema, arthritis, irritable bowel, energy level, etc.) or list some litany of the evils of non-organic food. Just show me some actual evidence.
Sent from my iPad using Early Retirement Forum
I totally believe in the 'Placebo Effect', which has actual evidence. It is the basis of much of modern medicine, IMHO. If so called 'organics' make people feel better, that's great.
__________________
"We live the lives we lead because of the thoughts we think" Michael OíNeill
timo2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2016, 10:41 AM   #224
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,702
Quote:
Originally Posted by timo2 View Post
If so called 'organics' make people feel better, that's great.
They feel better until that "organic" fertilizer (poop) gives them e-coli.
Then they feel worse.
Begging for those in-organic antibiotics.
__________________
Living well is the best revenge!
Retired @ 52 in 2005
marko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2016, 12:35 PM   #225
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
travelover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 9,889
Quote:
Originally Posted by karen1972 View Post
While there are many "organic" foods which don't really add value............
Amazing, but amusing thread drift. It is a little foolish to broad brush organic vs non-organic as it depends a lot on the type of vegetable or fruit considered and where it was grown. A few months back, Consumer Reports had a comprehensive chart showing which foods were problematic based on their propensity to retain pesticides and the type of pesticides used, by country of origin.
__________________
Yes, I have achieved work / life balance.
travelover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2016, 01:37 PM   #226
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
kcowan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pacific latitude 20/49
Posts: 5,720
Send a message via Skype™ to kcowan
Speaking of thread drift, we really enjoy buying food here in Mexico because it is mostly local and not subjected to hormones and pesticides (except for Costco/Sams) and is very cheap.

When we eat out, some of the restaurants try to adjust their prices to USD, but most do not. The USD restaurants cost about 1100 pesos per couple with a bottle of wine, whereas the others charge 600-700 pesos per couple.
__________________
For the fun of it...Keith
kcowan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2016, 01:58 PM   #227
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
harley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Following the nice weather
Posts: 6,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by marko View Post
They feel better until that "organic" fertilizer (poop) gives them e-coli.
Then they feel worse.
Begging for those in-organic antibiotics.
The poop giveth, and the poop taketh away.

'Poop pills' will put feces from healthy people into guts of patients with infections | Daily Mail Online
__________________
"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." - Will Rogers, or maybe Sam Clemens
DW and I - FIREd at 50 (7/06), living off assets
harley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2016, 01:59 PM   #228
Full time employment: Posting here.
dixonge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Ajijic
Posts: 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcowan View Post
Speaking of thread drift, we really enjoy buying food here in Mexico because it is mostly local and not subjected to hormones and pesticides (except for Costco/Sams) and is very cheap.

When we eat out, some of the restaurants try to adjust their prices to USD, but most do not. The USD restaurants cost about 1100 pesos per couple with a bottle of wine, whereas the others charge 600-700 pesos per couple.
Is it that much more expensive than Lake Chapala We're used to spending $200MX for a meal and wine, music and dancing incluye. We could spend more, but we're too damned cheap.
__________________
dixonge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2016, 02:44 PM   #229
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
kcowan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pacific latitude 20/49
Posts: 5,720
Send a message via Skype™ to kcowan
Quote:
Originally Posted by dixonge View Post
Is it that much more expensive than Lake Chapala We're used to spending $200MX for a meal and wine, music and dancing incluye. We could spend more, but we're too damned cheap.
Yes. PV is probably the most expensive tourist destination in Mexico. Sadly we like it!

We have visited Chapala and find the costs amazing. We were disappointed that we had to eat before 8PM. Reminded us of Florida. But the weather is great year round and 2 couples have recently sold here and moved there.

We had the benefit of a trail blazer who moved fulltime to Ajijic in 1997 and stayed there for 5 years before moving to the coast. They tried Manzanillo, PV and Mazatlan and chose Maz. We did not like the industrial nature of Maz and especially don't like the new bridge to Durango. But the coast of the Sea of Cortez is beautiful!
__________________
For the fun of it...Keith
kcowan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2016, 03:32 PM   #230
Full time employment: Posting here.
dixonge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Ajijic
Posts: 848
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcowan View Post
Yes. PV is probably the most expensive tourist destination in Mexico. Sadly we like it!

We have visited Chapala and find the costs amazing. We were disappointed that we had to eat before 8PM. Reminded us of Florida. But the weather is great year round and 2 couples have recently sold here and moved there.
Yes, not a lot of nightlife around Ajijic. Unless you count cohetes. jaja

I saw two different couples we know posting photos from PV a couple of weeks ago. It's on our list to visit
__________________
dixonge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-05-2016, 04:00 PM   #231
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 2,989
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danmar View Post
As far as subsidizing someone else's retirement. This is a bit of a hornets nest. Everyone who gets SS or Medicaid is being subsidized to some degree, no? Not being American I should probably pass on this part.
I agree that SS is a hornet's nest. I would restrict my definition of "subsidized" to programs that are provided to people who qualify based on low income and/or few assets. Medicaid is in that category. Medicare, which does not cover nursing homes except in very restricted circumstances such as "rehabilitation" does not. I once met a bank VP who goes on frequent scuba vacations to the Caribbean with her husband (we're in the Midwest) and they were methodically divesting themselves of assets by deeding their home to their adult kids and other means so that they'd qualify for Medicaid when they needed long-term care. I wanted to smack her.
__________________
athena53 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2016, 07:17 AM   #232
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
harley's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Following the nice weather
Posts: 6,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by kcowan View Post
We have visited Chapala and find the costs amazing. We were disappointed that we had to eat before 8PM. Reminded us of Florida.
Hey! Let's not dis Florida. I went out to get some dinner last night at 9:30, and was able to choose between McDonald's OR Taco Bell. So there!
__________________
"Good judgment comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement." - Will Rogers, or maybe Sam Clemens
DW and I - FIREd at 50 (7/06), living off assets
harley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2016, 03:27 PM   #233
Moderator
Walt34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Eastern WV Panhandle
Posts: 16,539
Quote:
Originally Posted by athena53 View Post
I once met a bank VP who goes on frequent scuba vacations to the Caribbean with her husband (we're in the Midwest) and they were methodically divesting themselves of assets by deeding their home to their adult kids and other means so that they'd qualify for Medicaid when they needed long-term care. I wanted to smack her.
Karma may get them for that. Very few of the nicer nursing homes will take Medicaid only, most require the ability to private pay for at least a year, usually two or three years before they agree to not throw you you out when assets are depleted. In the ones that will take Medicaid only, you get the legally mandated level of care and nothing else, not what most people want.

Admittedly there may be exceptions to that but we didn't find any when looking around for FIL.
__________________
I heard the call to do nothing. So I answered it.
Walt34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2016, 04:22 PM   #234
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,318
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt34 View Post
Very few of the nicer nursing homes will take Medicaid only, most require the ability to private pay for at least a year, usually two or three years before they agree to not throw you you out when assets are depleted. In the ones that will take Medicaid only, you get the legally mandated level of care and nothing else, not what most people want.
+1.

My brother's mother in law was in a private nursing home that would not accept medicaid only residents but after her assets were depleted in about two years they kept her in the same room with the same amenities and services as a private resident.
__________________
Corporateburnout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2016, 05:14 PM   #235
Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,702
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt34 View Post
Karma may get them for that. Very few of the nicer nursing homes will take Medicaid only, most require the ability to private pay for at least a year, usually two or three years before they agree to not throw you you out when assets are depleted. In the ones that will take Medicaid only, you get the legally mandated level of care and nothing else, not what most people want.

Admittedly there may be exceptions to that but we didn't find any when looking around for FIL.
Its pretty much SOP 'round here with elder care lawyers advertising on radio and TV "don't let a nursing home take all your assets!!!".

I've often mentioned a relative who wanted to self-pay and the nursing home had no idea how to bill him.

All the billing was through Medicaid. They told me that in 20 years, they never had anyone self-pay and suggested that we/he was being 'very foolish' in not better planning his assets.
__________________
Living well is the best revenge!
Retired @ 52 in 2005
marko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2016, 10:42 AM   #236
Full time employment: Posting here.
Dog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 781
Wow...just read the article and comments.

Like others here I often think, "There but by the grace of God go I". DH and I have worked extremely hard, LBOM, saved diligently for ER, and followed our plan (with some unexpected sidetracks along the way).
I have friends and family that have chosen different routes and thus have learned that we all chose to live and spend differently.
At some point the 80YO woman's health will fail - then what? She will never pay off the $50k CC debt (and I doubt she has plans to).
For the others in the article (younger with a bit more income), I hope at some point they figure out that "hope is not a strategy".

Overall, they each made a lifestyle choice and I've learned that choices have consequences.


Sent from my iPhone using Early Retirement Forum
__________________
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
Dog is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2016, 01:56 PM   #237
gone traveling
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Richmond
Posts: 17
Sad story, but designed that way by the reporter I think. It seems to me that with just a little planning and common sense she could stretch her money a lot further - and it is likely she does, the reporter just ignored inconvenient truths.

And really, being caught speeding if she is as destitute as portrayed.....
__________________
Andy2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 02:01 PM   #238
Dryer sheet aficionado
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 28
I admire the first woman in the article to a certain extent. She is a 79 y/o woman out on her own getting by as best she can, not a typical woman of her generation. She is not making the best financial choices (and so is making her life that much harder) and is under a lot of stress. However at her age i can imagine she might say to herself "oh what the heck, when am i going to have a chance to see a Frank Lloyd Wright building?" Or "what the heck, i deserve prime rib". And at her age, i dont know if i disagree with her. If not now, when? She's obviously not going to pay off her cc debt.

This is not the circumstance i want to be in should i be lucky enough to live that long. I think thats true of most posters on this board. I think most wont be able to relate to the financial decisions made by the folks in this article.
__________________
Miranda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2016, 04:14 PM   #239
Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso)
Give me a forum ...
haha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Hooverville
Posts: 22,385
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miranda View Post
She's obviously not going to pay off her cc d
I agree with you, at this point trying to pay this off would be foolish, it would make her life much worse, and couldn't possibly help anything.

She is doing the only thing rational for her, live for the present.

Ha
__________________

__________________
"As a general rule, the more dangerous or inappropriate a conversation, the more interesting it is."-Scott Adams
haha is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Too old to retire young, but too young to retire Schutzie Hi, I am... 4 07-25-2014 11:52 AM
Too Young to Retire LarryBob Other topics 16 03-04-2010 07:14 AM
Live Long? Die Young? Answer Isnít Just in Genes Eagle43 Other topics 6 08-31-2006 12:12 PM
Poor habits lead to poor future~an old concept mickeyd Other topics 0 05-29-2006 11:24 AM
Too young too retire Familyretired Other topics 18 11-13-2004 01:23 PM

 

 
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:33 AM.
 
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.