Top Ten Things We Don't See On The Board

[Donner]

I ER’d and …..

10. …. My portfolio tanked….

9. …. My money ran out…

8. ….. I was bored to tears…

7. ….  I began fighting with my DW/DH…

6. ….  I had a heart attack in the first 6 months…

5. ….  I couldn’t keep up with inflation…

4. ….  I had to use the credit cards to pay the bills….

3. ….  I moved to a new community and I hate it….

2. ….  I had to go back to work….

1. ….  It was the worst mistake I ever made….


Is it just me or do others  wonder why we don’t get more input on the Board along the above lines.  I know people don’t like to discuss their troubles but……    Seems to me that by and large we get a pretty rosy picture of  life in ER from those who have done well in ER.  There have to be some lessons to be learned from those who hit a few potholes  along the way.   Don’t ya thnk?    Wonder what percent, overall,  are  successful and happy in ER vs. percent struggling and unhappy in ER?    My guess would be about 50-50.  We only hear from one of those 50s on this Board.   Maybe we should have a separate section –“Big Mistakes to Avoid!”  or “Don’t Do This!”  something like that.  Anybody have any other candidates for the Top Ten we don’t seem to be hearing?

Donner

 

[Nords]

Ah, well, I guess we've all been trying to forget about Ted's final post. He's definitely in the "ER is a crime against society" category.

Another category would be "I'll never ER, I'm having too much fun" or "I'm going to keep giving back to the community". Several acquaintances of that ilk feel sorry that I'm not working. I guess I should regret never finding my avocation, but I suspect that ER is my avocation.

I think terminating ER for financial reasons is viewed as an admission of failure, which most of us wouldn't find necessary to air in this forum. In fact we'd probably have bigger things on our minds (like finding a JOB) than presiding over an ER postmortem. I also suspect that reasons #1-8 are really evasive responses to the actual #9 or #10.

I've posted plenty of stories of military who can't/won't turn it off. I was quite alarmed by one acquaintance who ER'd right into the classic signs of chronic depression and sought "workplace therapy" as the only answer. I think he was back at work before his military terminal leave was over.

When we've shared our ER aspirations, many of us have been admonished "You won't last long, nuke". Perhaps that hardens our commitment to avoid the workplace, no matter how miserable our life has become. ("I'll show them-- I'll never work again!!")

But I think we've seen plenty of concerns about boredom, spouse friction, health, inflation, and "where to live". Most of us active posters have faced those concerns and resolved them (one way or another). Those who haven't resolved them have probably decided not to waste any more of their time on this board trying to educate the rest of us losers...

 

[haha]

I   Wonder what percent, overall,  are  successful and happy in ER vs. percent struggling and unhappy in ER?    My guess would be about 50-50.  We only hear from one of those 50s on this Board.   Maybe we should have a separate section –“Big Mistakes to Avoid!”  or “Don’t Do This!”  something like that.  Anybody have any other candidates for the Top Ten we don’t seem to be hearing?

I agree with Nords. Quite a few of these things have been aired here. It is true that for a retired person who usually has pretty much already cast off from the dock too much of this is not very pleasant reading. The same is likey to be true of heavily burned out younger people who feel at the end of their respective ropes, and are mostly looking for reassurance to help them do something that they feel they must do if for no other reason than they feel they cannot go on any longer. A poster who continued to make negative posts might come to be seen as a troll, given the context of this board.

I think it should be obvious to anyone that in many many ways life with a good job or a good COLA pension is more secure than living off savings. Possibly even more fun, provided you have enough power at work to avoid being humiliated and harrassed. So I take it for granted that most of us who bugged out did it at least to some extent to escape pain, rather than to find pleasure. Lets face it, we have had recent threads on re-using plastic bags! How cool is that?

I quit working too early because I was a work malcontent. I wish it were otherwise, but it wasn't. However, I have done fine and with a bit of luck that will probably continue.

Many people who have been around here awhile also know that ER stressed the hell out of my marriage. When we were still busy raising children it was from good to great- but when that was completed she felt she needed to make up for lost time in an education, career, and ego-gratification- accomplishment sense. Some people will subordinate their desires to the group or couple- some won't or can't. I found out that although I thought my wife was the former, she was the latter. A marriage goes downhill quickly if you try to restrain your mate's ambitions, or his/her spending. etc. It doesn't necessarily affect your love for one another, but it does affect the ER venture. It would be as if you decided to buy a pizza parlor that could only fly with both husband and wife pulling some hours,  but after the leases are all signed one of the partners decides that he/she has always wanted to go back to school and become an actor. The worst part is that he/she may be right- it was the thing they were always looking for but never realized. The problem is that the relatively inflexible situation of the pizza parlor often doesn't have the slack to withstand this sort of change.

There aren't a lot of attractive options in these situations. If you get divorced while working, she can't take you job, especially if she has one. She can  take a wad of your money, and use up a lot more in divorce proceedings. If you are retired the situation is worse, because all you have in money and this is hard to replace. So your freedom of action is constrained to say the least.

These topics are downers that anyone who has the brains to put together some meaningful savings and who hasn't spent his life under a rock will know without being told. After all, this is only an internet board. We could all be street people posting from our local public libraries, trying to keep warm, trying to find some contact and solace in a cold harsh world. Well, not all- some have posted pictures.


Mikey

 

[FunGoals]

Library opens early.

Not downsizing until its too late. Keeping a vehicle with low gas milage, high repair costs & insurance rates. Or keeping several vehicles. Too much house that needs remodeling, dusting, grass to cut, snow to shovel & has high real estate taxes & utilities.

Children returning home, children returning home with children, children returning home & leaving children. There are a lot of seniors raising their grandchildren.

Being a victim of fraud.

Bad luck.

Death or divorce of spouse or illness of self or spouse & impact on income, pension, social security & medical costs.

Still trying to keep up with the Jonses.

Celebrating & spending too much money at the start of retirement. 

 

[uncledrz]

Donner
This board is not the only place that I hear about er from people who have er'd. I'm slowing down, but not yet er'd. But I have 10-15 people that I know and see on a regular basis (some weekly, some every year for annual events, some in between) who have er'd. Every one that I know has done so voluntarily. For each it was his/her time. They had planned both financially and otherwise. They love it. Planned right financially. Watch their expenses but live the good life. Have plenty of interests/things to do. Are not bored. So I'd say that the reason people aren't writing about the downside is that if it is planned and done right, the experience is positive.
Oh, btw, one did go back to work after an extended period, just said he wanted to and did so. Freedom is wonderful!
Uncledrz

 

[Mr._johngalt]

When I first saw Donner's post (good one BTW)
I thought my situation would fit one or two categories.. Nope,
I am not afflicted with any of those. Just lucky I guess.

Briefly re. divorce and ER............my divorce enabled me to ER
in many ways.
Sad but true.

JG

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Donner
This board is not the only place that I hear about er from people who have er'd.  I'm slowing down, but not yet er'd. But I have 10-15 people that I know and see on a regular basis (some weekly, some every year for annual events, some in between) who have er'd.  Every one that I know has done so voluntarily.  For each it was his/her time.  They had planned both financially and otherwise.  They love it.  Planned right financially.   Watch their expenses but live the good life.  Have plenty of interests/things to do.  Are not bored.   So I'd say that the reason people aren't writing about the downside is that if it is planned and done right, the experience is positive.
Oh, btw, one did go back to work after an extended period, just said he wanted to and did so.  Freedom is wonderful!
Uncledrz

At my age I am starting to know a lot of retired people, but back when
I first hung it up I didn't know anyone (my age) who was retired.
I knew people were doing it but I just didn't know them personally.
In fact, for the first 10 years or so, none of my close friends/classmates
were retired. Now that I think about it, they still aren't.
However, as was pointed out recently, they are mostly all self employed
which undoubtedly accounts for this.

JG

 

[Mr._johngalt]

Hello FunGoals. Excellent list of ways to derail ER. We all could probably add a couple. It takes a combination of luck and pluck
(unless you are sitting on a huge pile of money)

JG

 

[Mr._johngalt]

I could never quite figure Ted out. No sense of humor?

JG

 

[FunGoals]

Thanks JG.
Bad luck can be unexpected & expensive. A neighbors tree came down, luckily it just landed on a fence.

 

[Beachbumz]

Great thread, Donner!
We have friends that FIREd the same time we did. He is retired military and then started business. They sold the business for a nice piece of change. Then comes a couple of lawsuits over the sale (long story). They WIN both of them, only now they have spent a couple hundred thousand dollars in attorneys fees! They are hoping to get mack 80 cents on the dollar, if they are lucky.

There's more to it than that, but not worth going into, bottom line, the wife is back at work now (His job is to build their house).

Beachbumz

 

[Beachbumz]

Celebrating & spending too much money at the start of retirement. 

Guilty as charged!  Fortunately, the hyper-inflation in the real estate market bailed me out! 

Beachbumz

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

Wow, JG replied to himself four times. I think thats a personal record.

 

[Eagle43]

Good thread, Donner. May I suggest Ernie Zelinski's "How to Retire Happy, Wild and Free." He gives all kinds of ways to get over what you are talking about. One Example: Build a "Get-a-Life Tree" which contains Activities that turn you on now, Activities that turned you on in the past, and New Activities you have thought of doing. The basic recommendation: Action. If you sit on your rear, watch tv, do next to nothing, you will be bored and long for a job you really didn't like, or get an illness, etc. Put another way, if you don't have a reason to get up in the morning, you might just stop getting up. He quotes lots of real-life people. This book is about the lifestyle, not the finances of retirement. I don't like Ernie's writing style that much, but his points are excellent.

One other thing: I'm 62. I could work until 70, or 75. But sooner or later, you gotta walk away (or you might get run off by a young whippersnapper). Then you have to face the same problems, just at a later age. The only exception is those who die on the job. Now that's something to aspire to.

 

[Martha]

Yes, good thread.

If my ER fails, I am unlikely to share the details. Especially if it is money. It would be like getting an F on the report card--you aren't going to tell anyone unless it turns out just about everyone flunked.

Since I started on this site, I went from being managing partner of my firm and working far too many hours to working part time. I haven't retired yet. As Mikey reports, "in many many ways life with a good job or a good COLA pension is more secure than living off savings".

But I confess, I haven't really settled into part time work. The month off this winter was great. The coming back was tough and I am not really hitting my stride at work. I have enough power at work not to be "humiliated or harassed". Nevertheless, I am becoming a malcontent. I find I spend a lot of time goofing off. It is like I have permanent short timers disease. But at home on my days off, I find I am driven to do stuff, where DH lives on ER time.

Need to settle in, or try something else.

 

[playaman]

I have never cognizantly been exposed to the phrase "permanent short timer's disease" which Martha uses, but I know (and fully understand) what it means. I often feel "guilty" because I don't have enthusiasm for my present position, even though I downsized myself to it. Right now, the summer of 2007 when m wife and I have agreed to FIRE seems awfully far off.

Sorry to detract from the thread, but the phrase simply strikes me as so valid.

 

[sgeeeee]

Wow, JG replied to himself four times.  I think thats a personal record.

TH,

Can you reply to this question 5 times? I'm conducting a test and want to see if JG can find a way to increase his post count.

 

[sgeeeee]

Donner,

If you've been reading and posting on the ER boards for long enough, I think you are likely to have seen all the things you mention. It is not at all unheard of to have a new poster who believes that retirement is boring, that retirement is irresponsible, that controling your spending is no fun, etc. But after posting these ideas a few times, they usually find another place to entertain themselves. Why hang around with a group of people who don't agree with you and who are likely to cast dispersions at you? There are at least a couple of posters I can recall who retired and then had to go back to work. But after the retirement failure, they are not likely to spend a lot of time here. There was a long discussion on divorce over on raddr's boards not long ago. A number of FIREees and FIRE wannabes talked about the impact of divorce.

I think the character of most boards gets colored pretty significantly by (at most) a handfull of posters. Posters who have lots of time and a few strongly held opinions can have a huge impact on what gets discussed. They can effectively discourage anyone from discussing things they don't agree with. If they can do this in a way that others find entertaining, then the board lives on, but dissention is minimized. Similarly, if they have a topic they love to talk about, long entertaining threads on those topics result. In addition to Dory's boards, you can find Retire early boards run by intrcst, raddr and ES. Each of these boards has a unique personality because of the small group of posters that dominate each board. raddr's board is more likely to have detailed discussions of portfolio allocation and sector performance, valuation, etc. ES's board is more likely to discuss LBYM issues and index investing details. intrcst's board is filled with retirement board politics and history of the retire early board's history. But finding lots of posts by people who didn't like retirement or who failed at it is going to be hard. I think they tend to go away.

 

[Nords]

Need to settle in, or try something else. 

Sounds like you're ready to do both-- how 'bout leaving the office and settling into a full-time ER?

 

[cute fuzzy bunny]

TH,

Can you reply to this question 5 times? I'm conducting a test and want to see if JG can find a way to increase his post count.

Eh, I gave up on "the great post race". Its simply not feasible to try to keep pace with someone who replies sequentially to the same thread over and over. Especially when the content is pretty much the same 4-5 standard paragraphs.

 

[yakers]

>ES's board is more likely to discuss LBYM issues and index investing details.

Where is ES' board? I know about raddr & Intercest and find them of some interest but not as compelling as this place. But LBYM is my overall approach and I do index as a basic investment approach so I might be interested in such a board,but oddly enough I have not found it on the web so far. A Google search on ES eearly retirement board gets me back to Dory.

 

[tozz]

I know it probably gets tiresome to the veterans of this board, but could someone post links for the boards noted below?  I can google a couple, but it's difficult without the board name. 

(Is there a board that specializes in loser-drifter wannabees?)

In addition to Dory's boards, you can find Retire early boards run by intrcst, raddr and ES.  Each of these boards has a unique personality because of the small group of posters that dominate each board.   raddr's board is more likely to have detailed discussions of portfolio allocation and sector performance, valuation, etc.  ES's board is more likely to discuss LBYM issues and index investing details.  intrcst's board is filled with retirement board politics and history of the retire early board's history. 

 

[unclemick]

Try NoFeeBoards.com! (ES) and The Retire Early Homepage (intercst)to find the other message board. Search for Raddr's Early Retirement and Financial Strategy Board or Raddr-pages.com.(Raddr)

 

[Donner]

Back during WWII, the Brits were very concerned about the losses they were sustaining in the Battle of Britain.  They knew that they could not keep losing planes at the rate they were losing them and defend the island successfully.   So, they sent a bunch of geeks to study the problem.  They dispersed to various fighter bases around the country and began interviewing the pilots as they returned from their missions.  They asked about tactics and mistakes they made etc.   They examined the planes that returned – counted the bullet holes, where they were, how far apart they were etc.  Nothing.  Losses kept mounting.  Finally, one bright geek had an inspiration.  They were looking at the wrong planes! They needed to be looking at the planes that DIDN’T make it back.   So they started looking at wrecked and shot down planes and pilots instead.  Information on the failed flights was analyzed and modifications were made.  Results improved.   This WWII effort spawned a whole new field of academic inquiry “Operations Research”  (as in Flight Operations).  Today you can get a PhD from any B School in the country in OR.

My point is, it would be nice to have a little OR on ER.  I realize that it is a pretty difficult thing to achieve in a format such as a message board.  Probably impossible. I feel a lot of empathy and concern for the Young Dreamers I see posting here.  Seems to me that many are quite naïve about what’s in store for them over time.  I think a lot of them think that they are going to jump into ER in 15 or 20 years with the same frame of reference they now have in their 20’s and 30’s.   But as the old pharts know, them bones gets to aching!  Life impedes. 

I think Martha and I are in a very similar place.  I have not yet jumped the fence into retirement but I am getting close and my mind is increasingly wandering to the other side of that fence.  What’s it going to be like?  Where are the land mines?  How is life going to change?   What distinguishes successful retirement from crashing and burning, like those WWII fly boys? 

I think Mrs. D and I are within 6-24 months of jumping the fence.  Like Martha, we are spending more and more time mentally in that other world.  Frankly, my top ten list is a compendium of  fears that anyone contemplating the leap should take into consideration. 
I like FunGoals additions  to the yips list, too.   Mrs. D and I are beginning to have some conversations which I confess I am avoiding.  Like –where are we going to live?  Should we move?  The house needs to be fixed up if we are going to stay here, can we afford it? What are you going to do every day?  Where do you see yourself in 5 years?  Your not just going to sit around all day and do nothing, are you?  Are we going to be poor? Will we be able to pay the bills when we are old?  Will we be able to travel?  Where do you want to travel?  Good questions, all.  Sometimes I just sit and stare at her because I don’t have all the answers.  Reduced to silence, so to speak.  Currently, there is no plan.  There is no coherent vision of “where we will be” in 5 years.   The money thing is a good excuse to keep working and postpone jump day and postpone answering these questions.  Building a cushion while the sun shines is a legitimate thing, after all.  But the clock is clearly ticking….and the question remains in the back of my mind – Do Mrs. D and I fit the profile of the pilots that made it back in one piece—bullet holes and all – or, do we fit the profile of the crashed and burned , whatever that is? 

So maybe this isn't the place to be wondering about these things.  Guess everybody is on his or her own and only jumping in the water will tell the tale.  What's the magic number?.  There is no magic number.  But there sure is a lot more than dollar bills to be dealt with in this decision.   Oh, well. Will just keep noodling on these things. Got to.

Donner

 

[REWahoo]

I think Mrs. D and I are within 6-24 months of jumping the fence. Like Martha, we are spending more and more time mentally in that other world. Frankly, my top ten list is a compendium of fears that anyone contemplating the leap should take into consideration.
I like FunGoals additions to the yips list, too. Mrs. D and I are beginning to have some conversations which I confess I am avoiding. Like –where are we going to live? Should we move? The house needs to be fixed up if we are going to stay here, can we afford it? What are you going to do every day? Where do you see yourself in 5 years? Your not just going to sit around all day and do nothing, are you? Are we going to be poor? Will we be able to pay the bills when we are old? Will we be able to travel? Where do you want to travel? Good questions, all. Sometimes I just sit and stare at her because I don’t have all the answers. Reduced to silence, so to speak. Currently, there is no plan. There is no coherent vision of “where we will be” in 5 years. The money thing is a good excuse to keep working and postpone jump day and postpone answering these questions. Building a cushion while the sun shines is a legitimate thing, after all. But the clock is clearly ticking….and the question remains in the back of my mind – Do Mrs. D and I fit the profile of the pilots that made it back in one piece—bullet holes and all – or, do we fit the profile of the crashed and burned , whatever that is?

Great post Donner.

With less than three weeks to go before jumping the fence, I've been dealing with some of the same questions. I've run the numbers so many times that my Excel spreadsheet is suffering from fiduciary fatigue and excessive wear. Been through Firecalc so many times I was afraid the flame would go out. It finally boiled down to this: I'm finally "there" ("here"?) financially and I still don't know the answers to all those questions about what life is like on the other side. But I'm ready to cross that fence and see what it's really like over there. We all know life is uncertain but I do know for certain that I'm ready for a new adventure.

So on May 27, I'm strapping on my flight suit and taking off on a flight I've been looking forward to for a long, long time. Yes, I could crash and burn, but I don't think I will or I wouldn't ever climb into the cockpit.

Whatever happens, I'm doing what I want to do from here on out (assuming of course, it's OK with DW).

REW, ready to kick the tires and light the fires