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Old 07-29-2014, 07:41 PM   #41
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I think the graph below that was on one of the links you provided dispels your assertion that our HI is amount the highest of any state.
This just means that whether or not it is "one of the highest" depends on whether you are 32 or 62. If you are 62, without age rating it will be one of the cheapest. But at 32 it will be one of the most expensive (but apparently, NY's is more expensive).

What Vermont will have to do is convince the people under about 50 that it's still worth staying at home. If they do that the numbers can work and it will be a pretty good deal for retired Vermonters.
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Old 07-29-2014, 07:55 PM   #42
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....What Vermont will have to do is convince the people under about 50 that it's still worth staying at home. If they do that the numbers can work and it will be a pretty good deal for retired Vermonters.
I agree, but it is much more than for just health insurance. Our demographics are getting older. IIRC we are one of the oldest states in the nation.

People want to live here because of the quality of life (even though winters are difficult, we attract those who like the outdoors and just bundle up and enjoy it. Long underwear and good snowpants are a must.) But they also need to work.

Our challenge is to balance enough economic growth to provide high quality job opportunities so our kids don't feel a need to move away when they become young adults with keeping Vermont "Vermont" and not becoming a Massachusetts, Connecticut, or New York.
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Old 07-29-2014, 09:03 PM   #43
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There are no regions in VT, everyone in VT has the same rates ....
But almost all other states do, and that makes broad comparisons problematic. In many states the regional cost variances can be quite large. In my current state, premiums for same Silver plan for same age person can be 1/3rd higher in highest vs lowest cost region. So (depending on age of course) VT premiums could be higher or lower than high or low cost regions within another state.
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Old 07-29-2014, 09:30 PM   #44
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During the 8 years I lived there my favorite was Switchback unfiltered ale.



Switchback Ale | Switchback Brewing Co. | BURLINGTON, VT



Except on rare occasion (such as one Christmas season, IIRC) it was not available in bottles or cans; you could only get it on draught.

Ok so I know this thread is about healthcare, but I have to say I also love Switchback!! It is all I order on tap when we visit since we can't get it in bottles to bring home. I'm also a fan of Long Creek. <edit to correct that to Long Trail / Otter Creek to please the beer police! >
We visited the Switchback brewery a few years ago and it was really nice, with good folks running it.
Yay for beer!
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Old 07-29-2014, 10:06 PM   #45
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Switchback is great, as is Trout River Rainbow Red.

By any chance did you have any ice cider when you were here? It tastes to me similar to a sweet dessert wine. Very good... and very expensive.

And IIRC a little alcohol is good for your health, so it fits fine in this thread.
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Old 07-30-2014, 06:27 AM   #46
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Switchback is great, as is Trout River Rainbow Red.

By any chance did you have any ice cider when you were here? It tastes to me similar to a sweet dessert wine. Very good... and very expensive.

And IIRC a little alcohol is good for your health, so it fits fine in this thread.
Some of us include fermented and brewed beverages as "meds", and that means they qualify as part of the cost of health care discussion.
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Old 07-30-2014, 06:30 AM   #47
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Good point I forgot about, they are also a form of muscle relaxant but don't overdose!
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Old 07-30-2014, 08:34 AM   #48
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But almost all other states do, and that makes broad comparisons problematic. In many states the regional cost variances can be quite large. In my current state, premiums for same Silver plan for same age person can be 1/3rd higher in highest vs lowest cost region. So (depending on age of course) VT premiums could be higher or lower than high or low cost regions within another state.
Right, so back to OP - Vermont has had ACA protections for years and currently has some of the lowest health insurance rates for older folks due to no age premium adjustments And we are NOT seeing an influx of destination FIRE's

I'm so saddened by reading older posts of folks not being able to RE because it takes them months/years to find a health plan that covered preexisting conditions, when if they would have come to VT it would have been a non issue.
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Old 07-30-2014, 08:48 AM   #49
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Ok so I know this thread is about healthcare, but I have to say I also love Switchback!! It is all I order on tap when we visit since we can't get it in bottles to bring home. I'm also a fan of Long Creek.
We visited the Switchback brewery a few years ago and it was really nice, with good folks running it.
Yay for beer!
I hate to nitpick (but I'm going to.) It's Long Trail or Otter Creek but I'm not aware of any Long Creek. It can be confusing because Long Trail acquired Otter Creek a few years ago (and that acquisition included Otter Creek's organic brand, Wolaver's.) Both are excellent beers. I used to drive by the Otter Creek brewery in Middlebury on the way home from the gym (and there's the tie-in to health!) and was occasionally known to stop for some of its product.
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Old 07-30-2014, 09:22 AM   #50
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But if you drink enough Long Trail and enough Otter Creek then it can get confusing, so let's give Sarah a pass.
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Old 07-30-2014, 10:04 AM   #51
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But if you drink enough Long Trail and enough Otter Creek then it can get confusing, so let's give Sarah a pass.
Damn, can't sneak anything past you guys! I actually typed that post out like three times on my phone and kept dropping the app, so by the time I actually sent it, details were lost. But lord yes, you two, I stand corrected. But they are both good beers!

And yes, I did have some of the Ice Wine, it was delicious! And very sweet. I brought back a bottle of that as well!
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Old 12-17-2014, 06:43 PM   #52
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I live in Vermont and have been following the single payer proposal closely. I think the reality is that the Governor and legislature will not be able to figure out a sensible way of paying for single payer without ruining the economy and will ultimately either give up on single payer or revise it dramatically.

One likely thing they will consider is a tax on employers, but employers who currently provide health insurance coverage would also be relieved of the cost of providing health insurance coverage. I don't see it as workable and many others who have studied it are skeptical. ....
An update to the thread earlier this year on Vermont's initiative on single payer. As I predicted, it collapsed from its own weight. The governor announced today that he concluded that it was not economically viable and is abandoning the effort.

While I think that is the right conclusion, it was as obvious as the nose on his face (that is to say, painfully obvious) from the beginning, so I wonder how much taxpayer money was wasted in coming to that obvious conclusion.

Shumlin: It's 'Not The Right Time' For Single Payer | Vermont Public Radio
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Old 12-18-2014, 10:21 AM   #53
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Did he ever come right out and say how much it would cost and how it would be paid for? I recall when I lived there that nobody could get him to provide those basic facts.

I assume the Democrat-dominated House is going to vote him back in in January? Does Milne even have a prayer? (Haven't been keeping up since the election in Nov.)
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Old 12-18-2014, 10:33 AM   #54
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Some of us include fermented and brewed beverages as "meds", and that means they qualify as part of the cost of health care discussion.
Now if I could just get my HI to cover my liquor bill...
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Old 12-18-2014, 01:06 PM   #55
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Did he ever come right out and say how much it would cost and how it would be paid for? I recall when I lived there that nobody could get him to provide those basic facts.

I assume the Democrat-dominated House is going to vote him back in in January? Does Milne even have a prayer? (Haven't been keeping up since the election in Nov.)
The total estimated cost of providing benefit was $4.3 billion in 2017, rising to $5.2 billion in 2021. However, that cost would be reduced by federal Medicaid and what the state is currently contributing to Medicaid, resulting in new revenues needed of $2.6 billion in 2017 rising to $3.2 billion in 2021. The $2.6 billion is higher than a $2.2 billion previously rumored.

See http://mediad.publicbroadcasting.net...n-20141217.pdf

The funding would have been an 11.5% payroll tax generating $1.5 to $1.6 billion annually and new income taxes of 0% to 9.5% with a max of $27,500 generating $1.2 to $1.4 billion annually. The plan would have generated slight surpluses in 2017-2019 and deficits thereafter.

IMO, these taxes would have created a giant sucking sound of businesses and individuals leaving the state. I know I would have moved to another state and just kept my vacation home here.

I think the Democratic legislature will pinch their noses and re-elect him in January since there is historical precedent for over 100 years of the legislature installing the top statewide vote-getter. However, I think a lot of his supporters feel that he has baited and switched them since he was such a proponent of single payer during the recent gubernatorial campaign. His spin is that the information is "new" and he is very disappointed but I suspect that he knew full well that this single payer pig was not going to fly and kept silent until after the election.

Whether this will alienate legislators enough to boot him out and elect Milne remains to be seen, but I doubt it.
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Old 12-18-2014, 01:18 PM   #56
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IMO, these taxes would have created a giant sucking sound of businesses leaving the state. I know I would have moved to another state and just kept my vacation home here.
The single payer would eliminate the need for companies to pay for health care for their employees. That would provide an incentive for some companies to stay or move there. For the ones that don't provide much in the way of health care it would be a big tax increase.
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Old 12-18-2014, 01:24 PM   #57
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Some of us include fermented and brewed beverages as "meds", and that means they qualify as part of the cost of health care discussion.
Speaking of Dawg52, anybody hear from him recently?
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Old 12-18-2014, 01:28 PM   #58
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Speaking of Dawg52, anybody hear from him recently?
Nope.

He hasn't posted since early in January but I see he still lurks on the forum. Maybe he took a vow of silence? Hopefully it was only for a year and he'll soon join us again...
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Old 12-18-2014, 01:29 PM   #59
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The single payer would eliminate the need for companies to pay for health care for their employees. That would provide an incentive for some companies to stay or move there. For the ones that don't provide much in the way of health care it would be a big tax increase.
WADR, you are dreaming. I understand that argument, but I just do not agree.

The half of employers who don't currently offer health insurance likely would have bolted rather than absorb an additional 11.5% in payroll costs and that alone would be a huge problem. And as I understand it larger firms might have had to pay the 11.5% in addition to their current health insurance plans or somehow carve their Vermont employees out of their current plans. it would have been a mess.

I'm sure that my increase in taxes would have been much more than my savings on health insurance.
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Old 12-18-2014, 01:49 PM   #60
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WADR, you are dreaming. I understand that argument, but I just do not agree.

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WADR -- What A Dumb Response?

Single payer is the "progressive" dream so I'm afraid almost anything I say will be interpretted politically which is not the intent. I agree that most people currently taking care of their own health insurance will lose money out of the deal. Those that don't will get better care but probably pay little if any additional tax. Companies would only come out ahead if they have low paid employees but provide a high cost health care plan. That's not too likely.
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