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Vermont to become a destination for FIRE?
07-28-2014, 10:53 AM
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#1
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 344
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Vermont to become a destination for FIRE?
I had not heard about this previously, but I saw this weekend on one of the Sunday news programs that Vermont is pursuing a Canadian style health care option for their state. In other words, they will cut the insurance companies out and provide health care to all their citizens. I don't want this to be a political thread on the merits of such a program, but if they offered essentially "free" health care, wouldn't this become an attractive state for early retirees until folks are eligible for Medicare?
Maybe they would only offer this perk to people who have been residents of the state for x number of years?
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07-28-2014, 10:56 AM
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#2
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 40,716
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Healthcare is never free, if it followed the single payer approach the cost would be paid through taxes.
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07-28-2014, 10:59 AM
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#3
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB
Healthcare is never free, if it followed the single payer approach the cost would be paid through taxes.
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While discussing the UK HC system, I actually had a (highly educated) lady tell me : "of course it's free; the government pays for it!"
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Living well is the best revenge!
Retired @ 52 in 2005
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07-28-2014, 11:02 AM
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#4
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB
Healthcare is never free, if it followed the single payer approach the cost would be paid through taxes.
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I understand that, but for people who are already retired and no longer generating much "earned income" it may likely be free to them. Thus my question about whether this would be enticing enough for early retirees to start moving there?
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07-28-2014, 11:10 AM
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#5
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyvue
I understand that, but for people who are already retired and no longer generating much "earned income" it may likely be free to them. Thus my question about whether this would be enticing enough for early retirees to start moving there?
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I don't know much about the Vermont Healthcare reform, but did it replace Medicare?
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07-28-2014, 11:14 AM
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#6
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 8,419
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VT is an interesting place. SIL's sister lived there and the town they lived in imposed a pretty heavy "arts tax" on top of the property tax. I forget how much it was but it was quite hefty, like 2 or 3 grand a year. The idea was to be able for the town to buy artwork and place it in public areas or something like that.
The tax was so onerous that the working stiffs had to move out of town, making room of course, for the wealthy newcomers. (which many suspected was the plan all along)
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Living well is the best revenge!
Retired @ 52 in 2005
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07-28-2014, 11:17 AM
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#7
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Portland
Posts: 4,946
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB
I don't know much about the Vermont Healthcare reform, but did it replace Medicare?
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Green Mountain Care (the new single-payer system) won't be in effect for the general population[1] until at least 2017, after which federal law permits Vermont to obtain a waiver from ACA requirements.
Once in effect, Vermont Medicare recipients keep their Medicare benefits and have Green Mountain Care as secondary coverage.
Here's a handy chart of how different populations in Vermont are to be handled:
http://hcr.vermont.gov/sites/hcr/fil...C%20011614.pdf
1. Green Mountain Care currently handles Medicaid patients and the "Dr. Dynasaur" program for children, teens under 19, and pregnant women.
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07-28-2014, 11:24 AM
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#8
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Northeast
Posts: 87
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As a Vermonter, I along with many are wondering how this will work. Our Governor has made it one of his priorities but details as to funding and how it will work are severely lacking.
As of 1/1/14, all individuals who buy their own coverage and businesses under 50 people in VT had to purchase coverage from the State run ACA website.
VT ACA has no premium increase for age
I'm surprised Vermont didn't become a RE haven prior to ACA, as Vermonters have benefited from most all the protections of ACA for many years before the rest of the country.
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Awaiting cash out of Corp retirement plan, saving, saving and saving more, in hopes of RE in 2016 at age 47.
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07-28-2014, 11:26 AM
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#9
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB
I don't know much about the Vermont Healthcare reform, but did it replace Medicare?
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I am not sure on how it would impact Medicare. But it could be an attractive option for those folks who are retired, but not yet 65. The savings of having to buy private insurance from say age 50 to 65 could be very substantial!
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07-28-2014, 11:26 AM
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#10
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Northeast
Posts: 87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB
I don't know much about the Vermont Healthcare reform, but did it replace Medicare?
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NO
__________________
Awaiting cash out of Corp retirement plan, saving, saving and saving more, in hopes of RE in 2016 at age 47.
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07-28-2014, 11:30 AM
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#11
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,929
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Paquette
Green Mountain Care (the new single-payer system) won't be in effect for the general population[1] until at least 2017, after which federal law permits Vermont to obtain a waiver from ACA requirements.
Once in effect, Vermont Medicare recipients keep their Medicare benefits and have Green Mountain Care as secondary coverage.
Here's a handy chart of how different populations in Vermont are to be handled:
http://hcr.vermont.gov/sites/hcr/fil...C%20011614.pdf
1. Green Mountain Care currently handles Medicaid patients and the "Dr. Dynasaur" program for children, teens under 19, and pregnant women.
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Thank you very much for the link; that is very helpful info.
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07-28-2014, 11:31 AM
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#12
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,637
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I moved from VT to MA about a year ago. I have not kept up with the health care debate since then, so my information may be dated.
As I understood it then, the "single payer" system being advocated by Gov. Shumlin would have had the state serve as the "insurance company." People would still have paid premiums (based on their incomes) and I suppose those at the very low end of the income scale would not have had to pay premiums. People who were covered by Federal programs such as Medicare and Tricare would not have to participate in the single payer system, so my
inference was that the Federal programs would have been a better deal. (And, as far as I know, nothing has yet been implemented.)
Vermont is a high tax state and its taxes are all quite progressive so that middle/upper income people shoulder a fairly large burden. Medicare, civil service and military pensions are all subject to state income tax. Property taxes are not cheap and they are tied to income so some people pay very little. The population is only about 650K, so costs are spread across a fairly small base of taxpayers compared to other states.
Vermont is a beautiful state with a lot to recommend it as a retirement location but, based on my experience there, getting a good deal on health insurance would not, in and of itself, be a cost-effective reason for retiring there.
Disclosure: if I had remained there I would not have been a participant in the proposed single payer system as I am both Medicare and Tricare eligible
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friar1610
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07-28-2014, 11:31 AM
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#13
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Recycles dryer sheets
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Cleveland
Posts: 344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Paquette
Green Mountain Care (the new single-payer system) won't be in effect for the general population[1] until at least 2017, after which federal law permits Vermont to obtain a waiver from ACA requirements.
Once in effect, Vermont Medicare recipients keep their Medicare benefits and have Green Mountain Care as secondary coverage.
Here's a handy chart of how different populations in Vermont are to be handled:
http://hcr.vermont.gov/sites/hcr/fil...C%20011614.pdf
1. Green Mountain Care currently handles Medicaid patients and the "Dr. Dynasaur" program for children, teens under 19, and pregnant women.
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Will the average Vermont resident have to pay a premium for this coverage? Any info on what that might be?
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07-28-2014, 11:33 AM
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#14
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,440
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Move somewhere with lots of snow just to get 'free' health insurance? Not a chance.
I'll stay here in my low overall tax, sunny NV state and buy my subsidized insurance from the ACA when the time comes. (NV runs it's own exchange so subsidies aren't at risk)
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07-28-2014, 11:41 AM
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#15
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Portland
Posts: 4,946
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skyvue
Will the average Vermont resident have to pay a premium for this coverage? Any info on what that might be?
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As far as I know, nothing has been resolved yet. It may take the form of a 'public premium', a tax, mix of taxes, or some combination of all of these. Costs are expected to be comparable to a similar group insurance plan or existing non-age-rated individual plans as applied to the general population. (That is, it is not a Magic Bullet to miraculously drop medical costs at inception.)
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07-28-2014, 11:51 AM
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#16
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 7,746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisa99
Move somewhere with lots of snow just to get 'free' health insurance? Not a chance.
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+1 on the snow concerns. A friend moved from VT to Raleigh and still can't get the winter chill out of his bones. I'll stick with my southeastern US winters that only last a few months and have the occasional 70 degree interspersed with below freezing weather (and a snow storm some years!!).
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Retired in 2013 at age 33. Keeping busy reading, blogging, relaxing, gaming, and enjoying the outdoors with my wife and 3 kids (8, 13, and 15).
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07-28-2014, 12:44 PM
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#17
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: irradiated - too close to the nuclear furnace
Posts: 1,294
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Last time someone had a thread that was similar to this (not about HC) and I replied telling the truth I received a warning. I don't post much now because it is difficult to reply to some things without getting into trouble.
I'll keep this short and sweet (from here on):
1. Nothing is free someone pays for it
2. It is cold and snows a lot in VT, I don't see retirees opting for that vs the south unless they like that and most don't.
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07-28-2014, 01:12 PM
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#18
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Thinks s/he gets paid by the post
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 1,637
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Quote:
Originally Posted by veremchuka
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2. It is cold and snows a lot in VT, I don't see retirees opting for that vs the south unless they like that and most don't.
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There are actually quite a few retirees in VT (relative to the population.) Some - but certainly not all - go South for the winter. I agree it helps to like things like skiing, skating, snowshoeing, etc. if you want to spend time outdoors in the winter. A lot of people I knew have interests and hobbies that they can happily pursue indoors so the weather doesn't phase them.
But, as you basically note, different strokes for different folks. In my own case, I would not want to live permanently in the South (although a mid-winter trip for a couple of weeks is a nice break.)
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friar1610
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07-28-2014, 01:34 PM
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#19
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Chicagoland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Paquette
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Nice chart. Very helpful link, thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by skyvue
I am not sure on how it would impact Medicare. But it could be an attractive option for those folks who are retired, but not yet 65. The savings of having to buy private insurance from say age 50 to 65 could be very substantial!
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From M Paquette's post and link, Green Mountain Care will provide Medicare supplemental insurance, which is a large and important part of total coverage.
The total cost of health care per inhabitant might decline, as the State now has the mechanism to enroll the entire population. If the State takes over as sole insurer it can still charge an unsubsidized premium to the majority of users, and it's not clear if payment will be via direct premium, taxes or some combination. For Vermont to be a preferred retirement (or ER) location there would have to be a subsidy in the cost of healthcare greater than elsewhere. That part isn't yet clear.
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07-28-2014, 01:45 PM
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#20
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Give me a museum and I'll fill it. (Picasso) Give me a forum ...
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: West of the Mississippi
Posts: 17,263
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Actually, I was thinking of Vermont more in terms of one of the artisan cheese farms. Yummy!
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The worst decisions are usually made in times of anger and impatience.
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