Vermont to become a destination for FIRE?

[aja8888]

Ahhh...Vermont.....yummy!

Home | Ben & Jerry’s

[ERhoosier]

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Originally Posted by skyvue I had not heard about this previously, but I saw this weekend on one of the Sunday news programs that Vermont is pursuing a Canadian style health care option for their state. In other words, they will cut the insurance companies out and provide health care to all their citizens. I don't want this to be a political thread on the merits of such a program, but if they offered essentially "free" health care, wouldn't this become an attractive state for early retirees until folks are eligible for Medicare?.....

Not IMHO. As has been stated, it surely ain't "free". VT already has a comparatively high overall tax burden, and most seem to feel taxes would need to increase to fund that Canadian-style system if it were implemented.

Welcome to the Vermont Department of Taxes
Vermont Property Taxes By County - 2014
Taxes by State: New York to Wyoming

Income tax 3.55-8.9%, inc retirement pay. And low personal exemption, fed income taxes NOT deductible
Sales tax 6-7%, 9+% on meals/beverages
Property tax ave ~1.6% of actual market value

[pb4uski]

I live in Vermont and have been following the single payer proposal closely. I think the reality is that the Governor and legislature will not be able to figure out a sensible way of paying for single payer without ruining the economy and will ultimately either give up on single payer or revise it dramatically.

One likely thing they will consider is a tax on employers, but employers who currently provide health insurance coverage would also be relieved of the cost of providing health insurance coverage. I don't see it as workable and many others who have studied it are skeptical.

Summers are wonderful and are our dividend for putting up with winter. As some others have posted, many retirees are "snowbirds" and migrate south for the winter.

[pb4uski]

I've lived here my whole life (so far) and never heard of such a thing. Sounds like an urban rural legend to me. I'm ske[tical unless you can provide some facts.

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Originally Posted by marko VT is an interesting place. SIL's sister lived there and the town they lived in imposed a pretty heavy "arts tax" on top of the property tax. I forget how much it was but it was quite hefty, like 2 or 3 grand a year. The idea was to be able for the town to buy artwork and place it in public areas or something like that. The tax was so onerous that the working stiffs had to move out of town, making room of course, for the wealthy newcomers. (which many suspected was the plan all along)

[pb4uski]

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Originally Posted by SoClose ....VT ACA has no premium increase for age I'm surprised Vermont didn't become a RE haven prior to ACA, as Vermonters have benefited from most all the protections of ACA for many years before the rest of the country.

True, we outlawed denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions long before ACA, and our health insurance premiums are not age rated. Individual insurance is more similar to group coverage. The consequence of that is prior to ACA we had relatively high premiums.

Today, premiums are fairly reasonable compared to many parts of the country. Bronze coverage for 2014 was ~$342/month and catastrophic coverage is $214/month per person.

[pb4uski]

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Originally Posted by MichaelB I don't know much about the Vermont Healthcare reform, but did it replace Medicare?

No, my understanding is that once you are 65, Medicare would apply but it might cover Medicare co-pays and deductibles (like Medigap). Thing is, single payer is very unlikely to happen IMO.

[pb4uski]

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Originally Posted by Chuckanut Actually, I was thinking of Vermont more in terms of one of the artisan cheese farms. Yummy!

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Originally Posted by aja8888 Ahhh...Vermont.....yummy! Home | Ben & Jerry’s

If you get a chance try the Cabot Cheese Horseradish cheese. Yummy. I remember when B&J was starting out in a former gas station in downtown Burlington and would show movies on one of the buildings walls during the summer. Today, IIRC B&J is the #1 tourist attraction.

We also have a large number of craft beer makers. Hill Farmstead Brewery is well known and has many highly rated brews. The Alchemist's Heady Topper double IPA is outstanding, but has quite a kick (8%). A number of others as well.

[Sarah in SC]

I have enjoyed more than a few Heady Toppers, and managed to smuggle a few back into SC in my luggage after our last visit to my sister in the Burlington area.
I love it up there, but not sure I could make it through the winter.
But the beer is fantastic!

[pb4uski]

They are definitely an acquired taste. The first one I had I didn't particularly like, but i kept having them because DD and DW had bought a case! I like them now but can't have more than one at a time and only have one a couple times a week. They give me a real nice buzz so I need to make sure that I don't need to drive that night. Lot's of people have heard about them but not had them yet.

[skyvue]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pb4uski True, we outlawed denial of coverage for pre-existing conditions long before ACA, and our health insurance premiums are not age rated. Individual insurance is more similar to group coverage. The consequence of that is prior to ACA we had relatively high premiums. Today, premiums are fairly reasonable compared to many parts of the country. Bronze coverage for 2014 was ~$342/month and catastrophic coverage is $214/month per person.

Wow! Those have to be among the lowest rates in the country?

[ERhoosier]

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Originally Posted by pb4uski ......Today, premiums are fairly reasonable compared to many parts of the country.......

According to these data, VT has some of the highest ave HI premiums of any state-
Health Insurance Market Premiums - Bloomberg
http://www.zanebenefits.com/blog/bid...Exchange-Rates

But obviously YMMV. Few pay the hypothetical "ave" since individual premiums can vary a lot within any given state (e.g. by region).

[ziggy29]

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Originally Posted by skyvue Wow! Those have to be among the lowest rates in the country?

Maybe for anything that isn't age-dependent. For me (in Texas, age 48) the unsubsidized Bronze PPO plans are about $275. If I were 60 or even 55, it might be higher. I never crunched those numbers.

What remains to be seen is how the "invisible hand" could push younger wage-earners with higher taxes (and higher HI premiums than younger folks elsewhere) to move elsewhere. It can only remain a good deal for lower-income retirees as long as the younger folks stay in the system, purchase insurance and pay state taxes. For the math to keep working you need to have an appropriate demographic and economic mix as inputs into the system.

[Mulligan]

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Originally Posted by pb4uski I've lived here my whole life (so far) and never heard of such a thing. Sounds like an urban rural legend to me. I'm ske[tical unless you can provide some facts.

I hope you are correct. That tax and it's implied cost sounded plain ridiculous to me. But I am not an artsy person though.


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[marko]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pb4uski I've lived here my whole life (so far) and never heard of such a thing. Sounds like an urban rural legend to me. I'm ske[tical unless you can provide some facts.

I didn't make it up, I'm only relaying what SIL's sister told us as to why they had to move to another town. Their main point was that an influx of wealthy people had moved into town and decided that an additional tax would be a good thing.

Our friends opined that there was a tangible "rich newcomers vs old time working stiffs" tension going on and that the blue collars were being forced out.

We only see them perhaps once a year so I suspect by the time I see them again to get more details, this thread will be long gone.

[SoClose]

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Originally Posted by ERhoosier But obviously YMMV. Few pay the hypothetical "ave" since individual premiums can vary a lot within any given state (e.g. by region).

There are no regions in VT, everyone in VT has the same rates

http://info.healthconnect.vermont.go...%2010%2013.pdf

Deductible Plans - Single Rates

Platinum $582.79 - ded = $150 max op = $1250
Gold $497.06 - ded = 750 max op = $4250
Silver $425.19 - ded = 1900 max op = $5100
Bronze $359.47 - ded = 3500 max op = $6350

[aaronc879]

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Originally Posted by pb4uski I live in Vermont and have been following the single payer proposal closely. I think the reality is that the Governor and legislature will not be able to figure out a sensible way of paying for single payer without ruining the economy and will ultimately either give up on single payer or revise it dramatically.

This site explains it pretty well:
What is Green Mountain Care? | Vermont Leads

"Green Mountain Care will be financed by some form of a public tax, which will largely replace what we pay currently in the form of health care premiums. Under Green Mountain Care, everyone will pay on a sliding scale, based on income."

[M Paquette]

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Originally Posted by skyvue Wow! Those have to be among the lowest rates in the country?

They're lower than the age-weighted premiums most of us see ($574/mo for age 60, Bronze HSA eligible HMO plan for me, for example), but Vermont doesn't allow age-weighting in the insurance plans, so the price looks more like a group insurance plan, with the entire adult population as the group.

The rates will look high to a 26 year old from another state ($210/mo here for age 26, Bronze HSA eligible HMO plan), but low for those of us approaching Medicare.

[friar1610]

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Originally Posted by pb4uski We also have a large number of craft beer makers. Hill Farmstead Brewery is well known and has many highly rated brews. The Alchemist's Heady Topper double IPA is outstanding, but has quite a kick (8%). A number of others as well.

During the 8 years I lived there my favorite was Switchback unfiltered ale.

Switchback Ale | Switchback Brewing Co. | BURLINGTON, VT

Except on rare occasion (such as one Christmas season, IIRC) it was not available in bottles or cans; you could only get it on draught.

[pb4uski]

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Originally Posted by ERhoosier According to these data, VT has some of the highest ave HI premiums of any state- Health Insurance Market Premiums - Bloomberg http://www.zanebenefits.com/blog/bid...Exchange-Rates But obviously YMMV. Few pay the hypothetical "ave" since individual premiums can vary a lot within any given state (e.g. by region).

The flaw in your conclusion is that you are comparing age rated plans with plans that are not age rated. I noted that in the second link it cited "Of the 12 states analyzed the average premiums for ages 21, 40, and 60 are $271, $327, and $615, respectively" and cites a Vermont silver plan costs $411 per month. I think the graph below that was on one of the links you provided dispels your assertion that our HI is amount the highest of any state.

[pb4uski]

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Originally Posted by aaronc879 This site explains it pretty well: What is Green Mountain Care? | Vermont Leads "Green Mountain Care will be financed by some form of a public tax, which will largely replace what we pay currently in the form of health care premiums. Under Green Mountain Care, everyone will pay on a sliding scale, based on income."

In this case, the devil is definitely in the details, which have yet to be worked out. The Governor was required by statute to provide the legislature with a plan as to how to pay for it last spring as I recall. He essentially blew them off and has yet to deliver a funding plan. Since this is an election year and he is up for reelection, I doubt we'll see any plan until after the gubernatorial election.